My Approach to this Draft

[BobDigital]

That said, if we could trade #32 for a third round pick this year and a #1 next year I'm moving it.

We'd have two 3s (expected) and two 4s to get some DL.

A lot of years I would do that but not this year. I want to maximize value right now. Brady does not have long at this point and there is no true proof Garo is going to be a franchise QB.

I want to get guys that can help this year and in the next one or two.

 

[mayoclinic]

A lot of years I would do that but not this year. I want to maximize value right now. Brady does not have long at this point and there is no true proof Garo is going to be a franchise QB.

I want to get guys that can help this year and in the next one or two.

Lots of different opinions. No clear right and wrong.

For me, I would target the 2 guys I mentioned and then "be flexible". Like Gr8est, I wouldn't expect anyone to trade a 2016 1st for #32 in the draft; but I'd be open to offers for the pick, and weigh them against who is available on my draft board.

 

[The Gr8est]

A lot of years I would do that but not this year. I want to maximize value right now. Brady does not have long at this point and there is no true proof Garo is going to be a franchise QB.

I want to get guys that can help this year and in the next one or two.

We just won the Superbowl with minimal contributions from our first two picks. I don't think we need to go all in for Brady's last years and can continue maximizing the value in the draft.

It's been working well for quite a while.

 

[mayoclinic]

I like Hardison as an interior sub-rusher and Easley insurance, but he worries me against the run as well. From what I've seen of him, he doesn't hold up as well against double teams. But as an insurance plan for Easley, he works just fine.

I have a much higher view of Hardison than as "Easley insurance". It's more like my view of Jamie Collins in 2013. Some people questioned taking a LB because there wasn't a "need" and wondered where he would fit. I see Hardison as a Jamie Collins kind of guy on the DL - a completely different player, but similar in terms of his versatility and capacity to create mismatches. I think that BB and MP could create a lot with him and Easley together, and the benefits would far outweigh the mismatches.

 

[BobDigital]

Lots of different opinions. No clear right and wrong.

For me, I would target the 2 guys I mentioned and then "be flexible". Like Gr8est, I wouldn't expect anyone to trade a 2016 1st for #32 in the draft; but I'd be open to offers for the pick, and weigh them against who is available on my draft board.

Well there are always exceptions. If someone offered us a high 2nd and a 1st next year (it has happened before) I think then I would do it if it was not a big drop off in talent. But for a 3rd I would not personally. Agreed, no right or wrong here. Just opinions : )

 

[BobDigital]

We just won the Superbowl with minimal contributions from our first two picks. I don't think we need to go all in for Brady's last years and can continue maximizing the value in the draft.

It's been working well for quite a while.

Fair enough point. I would say this year and last year are different.

Last year they left FA stronger than when they went in so maybe they felt they could take some picks for the future.

This year I think most of us agree they will leave FA weaker than when they went in. Though Easley could contribute I think this signals there might be more urgency for rookies to contribute this year than last year. That is how I am seeing it anyway.

EDIT: Also perhaps I could have used better language. I don't mean to imply I want to go "all in" or mortgage next year or turn down really good deals. Just that I not at all motivated to trade any top picks for next year or draft many developmental guys high.

 

[Kontradiction]

I have a much higher view of Hardison than as "Easley insurance". It's more like my view of Jamie Collins in 2013. Some people questioned taking a LB because there wasn't a "need" and wondered where he would fit. I see Hardison as a Jamie Collins kind of guy on the DL - a completely different player, but similar in terms of his versatility and capacity to create mismatches. I think that BB and MP could create a lot with him and Easley together, and the benefits would far outweigh the mismatches.

I wasn't one of those people. It was insanely obvious that an athletic LB was a need going into the draft, given how often the 2012 squad was getting killed over the middle by TE's and RB's. I noted as much leading up to the draft. I'm not entirely sure there's as big of a need for an interior sub-rusher on this team, though. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind Hardison as a prospect. I just see a bigger need for a true 5-tech on that side of the ball, which I'm not sure Hardison is (outside of a need created by injury).

 

[mayoclinic]

I wasn't one of those people. It was insanely obvious that an athletic LB was a need going into the draft, given how often the 2012 squad was getting killed over the middle by TE's and RB's. I noted as much leading up to the draft. I'm not entirely sure there's as big of a need for an interior sub-rusher on this team, though. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind Hardison as a prospect. I just see a bigger need for a true 5-tech on that side of the ball, which I'm not sure Hardison is (outside of a need created by injury).

I'm not sure what your view of a "true 5-tech" is. Effective 5-techs come in all shapes and sizes these days. Manx has compared Hardison to both Stephon Tuitt and Sheldon Richardson. Richardson wasn't projected as a 5-tech, and has done rather well. Again, I think Hardison can play anywhere from the 9 to the 0/1, so I don't view him as purely an "interior sub-rusher".

Just as with Jamie Collins, I think teams will struggle to figure out where Hardison fits, and that will keep his draft value down. And he could end up being misused. But I think BB would find very creative and effective ways to use him, and make other teams wonder how they missed. JMHO.

 

[manxman2601]

I wasn't one of those people. It was insanely obvious that an athletic LB was a need going into the draft, given how often the 2012 squad was getting killed over the middle by TE's and RB's. I noted as much leading up to the draft. I'm not entirely sure there's as big of a need for an interior sub-rusher on this team, though. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind Hardison as a prospect. I just see a bigger need for a true 5-tech on that side of the ball, which I'm not sure Hardison is (outside of a need created by injury).

It depends on time scale. In year one, Hardison will see limited playing time. He wins with his athleticism (ive compared him to Sheldon Richardson in the past) but he struggles when blocked with hand usage. However, Hardison can be pretty much whatever you want him to be with the right coaching. He has the quickness to be a pass rushing 3 and 5 tech and at 310lbs, he can be developed into someone who can play the run too.

Just to put Hardison's athleticism into context, when he came out of JUCO, he was reported to run a 4.70 forty at 290lbs. Just about the only person to have run that speed at that size was Mario Williams. Hardison has an arguably better get off at the snap than Easley and has some of Sheldon Richardson's nimble feet as well as the ability to bend the edge like a 270lb DE. Whilst I think his floor is pretty low, a limited sub-rusher, with the right coaching his upside is huge.

 

[mayoclinic]

It depends on time scale. In year one, Hardison will see limited playing time. He wins with his athleticism (ive compared him to Sheldon Richardson in the past) but he struggles when blocked with hand usage. However, Hardison can be pretty much whatever you want him to be with the right coaching. He has the quickness to be a pass rushing 3 and 5 tech and at 310lbs, he can be developed into someone who can play the run too.

Just to put Hardison's athleticism into context, when he came out of JUCO, he was reported to run a 4.70 forty at 290lbs. Just about the only person to have run that speed at that size was Mario Williams. Hardison has an arguably better get off at the snap than Easley and has some of Sheldon Richardson's nimble feet as well as the ability to bend the edge like a 270lb DE. Whilst I think his floor is pretty low, a limited sub-rusher, with the right coaching his upside is huge.

I think Hardison's floor is as a solid 3-tech. He's shown the work ethic, drive, perseverance and self-study to get better. Todd Graham has lauded him as a leader on the field. At the least I see him as a major upgrade to Chris Jones, allowing Easley to be moved around more freely. As you say, the upside is huge, though nothing is ever a sure bet.

 

[mayoclinic]

Just as an aside, Hardison is ranked #101 in CBS Sports post-Combine rankings and #84 in ESPN's rankings. Market is ranked #80 by CBS Sports and #94 by ESPN.

 

[manxman2601]

I think Hardison's floor is as a solid 3-tech. He's shown the work ethic, drive, perseverance and self-study to get better. Todd Graham has lauded him as a leader on the field. At the least I see him as a major upgrade to Chris Jones, allowing Easley to be moved around more freely. As you say, the upside is huge, though nothing is ever a sure bet.

His floor is what he is now, and that's someone who struggles to get off blocks and ends up on his backside too often. I'm sure will get better, he made huge strides this year, but when it comes to the draft, I don't take anything for granted.

 

[manxman2601]

Just as an aside, Hardison is ranked #101 in CBS Sports post-Combine rankings and #84 in ESPN's rankings. Market is ranked #80 by CBS Sports and #94 by ESPN.

I get that "Market" auto-correct all the time. Same with "Harrison" instead of Hardison.

 

[IllegalContact]

I have a much higher view of Hardison than as "Easley insurance". It's more like my view of Jamie Collins in 2013. Some people questioned taking a LB because there wasn't a "need" and wondered where he would fit. I see Hardison as a Jamie Collins kind of guy on the DL - a completely different player, but similar in terms of his versatility and capacity to create mismatches. I think that BB and MP could create a lot with him and Easley together, and the benefits would far outweigh the mismatches.

I've been barking about the athleticism of the entire defense for years.......I see the need for a big DT more than a penetrating one because between jones and easley, we have a decent young pair in those.

besides wilfork the pats have siliga and I'm not confident in his full time abilities yet. I see a potential hole that needs to be filled with a high caliber young guy to replace branch

I was instantly enamored with the jamie collins pick given his athleticism.......many were crying bust but I was not one of them. not really relevant to the taking of an i terior DL and not sure how hardison relates given his athleticism does not stand out the same way.

that said, to a certain degree, between marpet and hardison, I see 2 guys who jumped on the results of their combines.....I believe both will settle out and will be available in rounds 3-5......


I still like Erving as a round 1 pick. I think he can be better than Marpet

 

[manxman2601]

I've been barking about the athleticism of the entire defense for years.......I see the need for a big DT more than a penetrating one because between jones and easley, we have a decent young pair in those.

besides wilfork the pats have siliga and I'm not confident in his full time abilities yet. I see a potential hole that needs to be filled with a high caliber young guy to replace branch

I was instantly enamored with the jamie collins pick given his athleticism.......many were crying bust but I was not one of them. not really relevant to the taking of an i terior DL and not sure how hardison relates given his athleticism does not stand out the same way.

that said, to a certain degree, between marpet and hardison, I see 2 guys who jumped on the results of their combines.....I believe both will settle out and will be available in rounds 3-5......


I still like Erving as a round 1 pick. I think he can be better than Marpet

Hardison didn't perform at the combine. Hardison "jumped" because he's been ignored all year and people are finally cottoning on to what he is. Remember, Hardison is a 300lb plus guy who got 10 sacks and 2 interceptions this year playing on the edge of a four man front whilst demonstrating outstanding athleticism. Why shouldn't he considered a potential top 100 guy.

 

[mayoclinic]

that said, to a certain degree, between marpet and hardison, I see 2 guys who jumped on the results of their combines.....I believe both will settle out and will be available in rounds 3-5......

Hardison didn't work out at the Combine. As mentioned earlier, both were on my short list pre-Combine.

 

[varjao]

This will be a much more easier for BB, if is it possible to think that way.

The fact that last year they hit on Stork to solidify the O-Line is a huge up, he came in and contributed immediately. Imagine the chaos it would be if that mess at the center position continued from 2013 to this last season? Had Stork busted badly, it would change the whole plan. Everything starts with a good center, they nailed it and I'm not even counting a very promising Fleming. The O-line can only get better.

So 2 very good offensive lineman and also, Easley and a good QB, not having to worry about it on this draft, remember Mallet would be gone by now.

I confess that in my assumptions and opinions I always worked under the concept of the Brady window so initially it pissed me off to think that in a loaded draft BB went long term and spent the 1st and 2nd round picks in players that would not contribute from the get go considering we needed players to contribute immediately. Turns out that we won the SB even with almost no contributions from these 2 so I almost think that we got 2 great players on Easley and Garopollo for free. I usually don't expect anything good after the 3rd round, the fact that Stork came in and played beyond expectations is awesome, BB absolutely nailed on that pick.

If a bad draft or a huge bust setbacks the team or a position for 2 or 3 years, the same can be said about a good draft. I don't know if I'm dreaming too much but the Stork pick can have a positive effect for years because it will allow BB to improve the line that is already good and set in center and tackles, in consequence the running game will improve, there is no need for signing big names for the offense in the free agency, so the other picks they can keep improving the defense. Had BB failed on his choices for O-Lineman in the last draft I think that would setback us badly.

 

[IllegalContact]

Hardison didn't perform at the combine. Hardison "jumped" because he's been ignored all year and people are finally cottoning on to what he is. Remember, Hardison is a 300lb plus guy who got 10 sacks and 2 interceptions this year playing on the edge of a four man front whilst demonstrating outstanding athleticism. Why shouldn't he considered a potential top 100 guy.

I just don't think the pats need him......he lacks the size next to easley against the run...this was my original point.....I don't see him as good value for the pats in the first couple of rounds.

 

[mayoclinic]

I just don't think the pats need him......he lacks the size next to easley against the run...this was my original point.....I don't see him as good value for the pats in the first couple of rounds.

You could be right. Personally, I don't think that the mold stays the same. A year ago, a lot of people on this board thought there was no way the Pats would draft Dominique Easley in the 1st round:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...n-pats-not-drafting-dominique-easley.1108318/

People thought it was crazy to take Devin McCourty in 2010 because we already had enough CBs, and no one could see the value of a nickel back. Many thought Collins was a player without a position, and we didn't need a LB.

Again, you could be right. But it wouldn't shock me at all if BB is all over Hardison's versatility and skill set.

 

[manxman2601]

I just don't think the pats need him......he lacks the size next to easley against the run...this was my original point.....I don't see him as good value for the pats in the first couple of rounds.

That's fine, I have some concerns about his fit too. But his jump isn't related to a single event like a combine, it's because his potential is sky high. I had him going 2nd round in a mock nearly four months ago - Hardison is very very talented, particularly athletically.