Deflate-Gate: Here We Go Again

[heavyde050]

I don't know that I'd call 17-7 exactly close, especially when we handed them the 7.

The officiating helped them get 7

 

[PatriotSeven]

There's no simple test they could do. They could see if it's leaking and if it is see if it's been punctured.

But that's it. If it's low in pressure what does that show? Maybe it got spiked or had pressure leak out during a tackle. Or maybe someone let air out. How would you know?

I said if it was deflated due to temperature, which would clear us, there is a test you can perform.

 

[kennyb]

Just about every media outlet reported as such from the original sources, which at the very least has some partial credibility, because it was later confirmed to be true. I said I don't have an official story that says it either way. That's why I asked. The media is reporting it one way, you are saying they are investigating it another way.

I just asked for some official info, one way or another. If you have it great, if you don't, then I don't think we should imply that there are no suspects either, since that's how it originally was reported, and thus far we have not had anyone come out and defend that.

All the media said is they're investigating. Anything more as to "suspects" is conjecture.

 

[Deus Irae]

No I think I was pretty clear. If we know the ball is deflated, by any and for any means, we are morally culpable. Come on now, I'm not interested in twisting words.

What a ludicrous assertion.

 

[Ring 6]

Just about every media outlet reported as such from the original sources, which at the very least has some partial credibility, because it was later confirmed to be true. I said I don't have an official story that says it either way. That's why I asked. The media is reporting it one way, you are saying they are investigating it another way.

A lot of media rehashed the Kravitz story. The league stated they are investigating the ball(s) because they always do. There is no credible source claiming that the investigation involves accusation that the Patriots are culpable in any way, or that the NFL suspects them in any way.

I just asked for some official info, one way or another. If you have it great, if you don't, then I don't think we should imply that there are no suspects either, since that's how it originally was reported, and thus far we have not had anyone come out and defend that.

There is no credible report that there are suspects. End of story.

Hey, wasn't that a great game yesterday? Isn't it great to be going back to the SB?

 

[kennyb]

I said if it was deflated due to temperature, which would clear us, there is a test you can perform.

Well no not really you'd have to know how warm the air was when it was pumped up. If it was pumped up outside then it wouldn't deflate due to temperature change because there wouldn't be one.

If it got 10 degrees colder during the game that might explain x% of the decrease. But that's not a test per se.

 

[Haley]

I said if it was deflated due to temperature, which would clear us, there is a test you can perform.

So a baseless accusation should be believed over the simplest answer? There has been no mention of any evidence of ball tampering, only deflation.

Why would you jump to a baseless conclusion? We don't need "clearing", there isn't any suspicious evidence of wrongdoing.

 

[reflexblue]

A lot of media rehashed the Kravitz story. The league stated they are investigating the ball(s) because they always do. There is no credible source claiming that the investigation involves accusation that the Patriots are culpable in any way, or that the NFL suspects them in any way.


There is no credible report that there are suspects. End of story.

Hey, wasn't that a great game yesterday? Isn't it great to be going back to the SB?

If its the case that the refs investigate the balls because they always do then BKraft should go DTrump and sue that little POS Kravitz.

 

[shmessy]

Here's a good description from the CBS feed given over at the Planet by a poster named "AllworldTE":

http://www.patriotsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=69304&page=10

"The whole thing was weird. It was just after half-time. There was a delay for some reason which Simms and Nantz felt was due to the kicking ball still being in the game which they stated after the initial delay was over.

Anderson looks perturbed during the initial delay. Anderson gives the signal to start play, The ump (official number 124 Carl Paganelli) wipes and sets the ball, the Pats move to the line and then and only then does Anderson stop play to remove the ball.

If I were investigating this I'd take a few steps.

1. What was the reason for the initial delay? There was no commercial break after the half so they should have set the ball and been ready to go.

2. Paganelli held the offending football throughout the initial delay under a towel. Then he sets the ball after Anderson stated "let's go" several times while indicating the start of play. Then Anderson says something to Brady.

3. Paganelli sets the ball and backs off. Vereen goes in motion at which point Paganelli stops play. At the time play is stopped, the ball boy is already rushing another ball onto the field and Anderson is moving towards him to get it. The ball boy throw it to Anderson who does a quick squeeze and tosses it to Paganelli who exchanges the balls. He throws the offending ball to the side-judge.

4. This is when the idea that it was a kicking ball comes into play.

5. I'd interview Anderson, Paganelli, the side-judge, the ball boy handling the balls on the side-line and the ball boy handing the storage bag which holds the balls that are out of the rotation.

6. If this ball was deflated, the person who should have known was Paganelli as he was holding it for an extended period of time prior to setting it just after Anderson started play. He obviously didn't notice it. Wendell had barely touched it and hadn't indicated an issue so he wasn't the cause of the stoppage. Anderson started play so he apparently wasn't aware.

7. Yet play was stopped and the ball was exchanged. The ball boy was rushing another ball into play after Anderson signaled to start play and prior to his stopping play.

8. Did the ball boy call out to get Anderson's attention that there was a problem?

9. Did Anderson know there was an issue with the ball but there's some procedure about setting it prior to the play to show intent if the offense lines up with the bad ball in play? (Seems far fetched considering it's the official's job to insure proper balls are in play)

10. Was this really a kicking ball issue and the deflated ball thing happened at a different point in the game?

11. Why did the ball boy have to go get another ball and run it over to the officials if they were aware there was a problem prior to setting the bad ball? Shouldn't he be holding multiple balls or did he get screwed up with the kicking ball/regular ball exchange after the kick-off?

12. The entire sequence is weird. Why set the ball then stop play while the ball boy is running over with another ball?

13. Unfortunately CBS cut away a few times at points which may have shed some light on the subject such as:

14. Did Anderson check the offending ball at any time?

15. Where did the bad ball go? We see the linesman throw it to someone off camera? Who? What was done with it?

16. We don't see what happened to it. We see the ball boy reach into the storage bag for a replacement but we don't see his hand come out and we don;t see what happens to the offending ball.

17. Hopefully the game film shows us more clearly what took place during this sequence of events.

 

[kennyb]

If its the case that the refs investigate the balls because they always do then BKraft should go DTrump and sue that little POS Kravitz.

That's all he said though, they're "invrstigating".

 

[PatriotSeven]

How would they know the ball is 12.48 psi instead of 12.5?

Even if it were flat the refs are handling the ball every play. Isn't it part of their job to notice if it's flat?

That's why I said if we knew. So it would have to be noticeable. I also think the NFL believes it's part of our job to notice that.

Cheating by omission is still cheating, if true. If we know a player is on steroids, we know we're cheating. Yeah it's the NFL's job to test, but we're still cheating if we know and condone it or omit to report it. As all teams so frequently do.

 

[LivinLovin&Breathin_Brady]

The ref dude on Sportscenter was saying that the refs check the balls prior to the game. Both teams have their separate balls, the QBs and kickers have their own bag of balls and the balls have to be up to certain standards--the standards for kickers and QBs' balls are different--before the game starts. Once the game starts according to this ref, the referees can't feel the difference in pressure, unless it is very obvious, because they don't deal with the ball as much, but the QBs can tell the difference. The refs don't think about ball pressure, during the game, unless it has been brought to their attention. During half time, the original report was the game was stopped because the ball on the field was a QB's ball instead of a kicker's ball. The ref on Sportscenter is now saying that, that wasn't the case. The new rumor is after Brady's INT, the Colts kept the ball and the coach or maybe it was the defensive player, noticed that the ball was different or deflated. These chumps whined to the refs and the refs started checking the game balls, which is what led to the whole game delay after halftime. The NFL is investigating that.

Could Brady have pierced the ball (in the huddle, I'm assuming) and squeezed out a little air? They will have to prove it, but I don't see how they will.

Could it have given the Pats an advantage? Maybe, but not a 38 point advantage, Luck just sucked and his D had no answer for stopping Blount.

Should we lose draft picks over this? Nope. If this has been done before as I've read on here and those teams weren't punished why should we be held to a different standard?

Is this a big deal? It shouldn't be but because this is the Patriots, this story will overshadow the AFC championship game. Funny how the Cleveland cellphone scandal came up and died quicker than it was reported. If it had been New England, Belichick would be ridiculed throughout the remainder the season and offseason.

 

[PatriotSeven]

All the media said is they're investigating. Anything more as to "suspects" is conjecture.

The original source, Bobby Boy, said Patriots were being investigated. Has there been any official info that refuted that or clarified that they are only investigating the deflation of the ball?

That's all I'm wanting to know.

 

[Guts]

Lol this is actually a story??

 

[dales804]

That's why I said if we knew. So it would have to be noticeable. I also think the NFL believes it's part of our job to notice that.

Cheating by omission is still cheating, if true. If we know a player is on steroids, we know we're cheating. Yeah it's the NFL's job to test, but we're still cheating if we know and condone it or omit to report it. As all teams so frequently do.

Are you saying teams report players for using PEDs/steroids?

 

[catent]

From my understanding of the situation, the only plausible way in which the Patriots could be culpable is if they instructed the ball-boy to intentionally deflate the ball(s).

Otherwise, the procedures and processes in place prevent a ball from otherwise being altered.

The only other outlandish theory I could think of is that perhaps the ball could have been altered at halftime? I have no idea where the footballs are placed and who handles them during the half, so this could very well be moot.

Save for the aforementioned circumstances, I don't see New England being guilty of any wrongdoing whatsoever. And I'd argue that the above two situations seem incredibly unlikely.

 

[PatriotSeven]

A lot of media rehashed the Kravitz story. The league stated they are investigating the ball(s) because they always do. There is no credible source claiming that the investigation involves accusation that the Patriots are culpable in any way, or that the NFL suspects them in any way.


There is no credible report that there are suspects. End of story.

Hey, wasn't that a great game yesterday? Isn't it great to be going back to the SB?

And all I asked was where you got that from.

 

[dales804]

Lol this is actually a story??

You'll be hearing about this for many years just like the now revised history of NE taping practices (which that asshat from IND who first reported this also said when asked why he tweeted it out).

 

[supafly]

5. I'd interview Anderson, Paganelli, the side-judge, the ball boy handling the balls on the side-line and the ball boy handing the storage bag which holds the balls that are out of the rotation.

If this is the case, then we can all settle in and look forward to this talk taking up the bulk of the next coming week. It's an unneeded distraction, to say the least. That's not even bringing into account the fact that it should be a time of celebration for coaches, players, and the fanbase.

If there's really nothing to it then the NFL would probably release a statement today to put an end to it--or at least help to describe what the issue is. The longer the silence goes on, the more it will be perceived as an issue, right or wrong, and the more I will raise my level of concern.

 

[kennyb]

That's why I said if we knew. So it would have to be noticeable. I also think the NFL believes it's part of our job to notice that.

Cheating by omission is still cheating, if true. If we know a player is on steroids, we know we're cheating. Yeah it's the NFL's job to test, but we're still cheating if we know and condone it or omit to report it. As all teams so frequently do.

Someone who takes steroids is doing an action which is directly against the rules.
A center not calling attention to a ball being slightly off is different as he did nothing to make it slightly off and he has no pressure guage. That's what refs are for. They handle the ball. Centers aren't issued pressure Guage by the nfl.

No basis for saying pats are morally culpable for a slightly deflated ball if it was perfectly legal when the refs inspected it. How would the pats know? Where in the rules does it say pats should inspect the ball every play to make sure it's still ok.

For you to equate not realizing a ball Is slightly deflated to taking steroids is ludicrous.