Deflate-Gate: Here We Go Again

[Deus Irae]

It seems to me the NFL entrusts the teams to provide and play with properly inflated balls and they have referees to check for compliance. Just because they have refs to check for compliance, doesn't remove the burden of responsibility entirely from the team, and throughout the game. If the refs fail to check, it's on them. If they check and the ball is not in compliance, it's on US.

The balls were pulled DURING THE GAME. That makes this entire paragraph useless, and your argument about the Patriots having any responsibility for what may have happened prior to that a waste of time. As I posted:

"In other words, unless the ball boys were deflating footballs, the responsibility would be on the referees."

 

[Mogamedogz]

the ball boys were deflating footballs

Yes, this is the exact allegation being made here. If the PSI comes back too low, the next logical step would be to question them. Let's hope it doesn't come to that or it's gonna be a VERY long two weeks (for those who let it).

 

[rochrist]

Colts use their own balls. And at the half it was close.

I don't know that I'd call 17-7 exactly close, especially when we handed them the 7.

 

[kennyb]

It seems to me the NFL entrusts the teams to provide and play with properly inflated balls and they have referees to check for compliance. Just because they have refs to check for compliance, doesn't remove the burden of responsibility entirely from the team, and throughout the game. If the refs fail to check, it's on them. If they check and the ball is not in compliance, it's on US.

If what you are saying is true, and I'm only going by your explanation, and the refs checked prior to the game and it checked out ok, but then the ball is in the hands of OUR team's ball boys, and later in the game it's no longer in compliance...then I think that's pretty damn obvious why they would imply we are responsible.

If the Carolina Panthers are capable of heating balls on the sideline, at some point, our team is also capable of handling those footballs as well.

All I'm saying, I think the line that it is impossible or that we bear no responsibility even if the balls are found to be improperly inflated, because it's out of our hands is just denial at this point. It just doesn't seem to be true.

I agree with what you said. But balls can deflate naturally with play weather etc.

Short of having an attendant let air out though which would be obviously against the rules the pats can't be responsible.

The referees ensure the balls are properly inflated. After that only refs and attendants touch them. I guess one of Belichick's minions could have spirited a ball away and deflated it. But the fact that a ball is slightly low isn't prima facie evidence of that.

 

[PatriotSeven]

How are we 'responsible for' maintain air pressure in a football?
Unless you are implying that someone snuck into the bag ball with a needle after the ref inspected it you are making no sense.
Its been demonstrated on this site that temperature can affect the pressure in the ball. I assume damage or defect could as well. The fact that there is a rule does not mean it was put in to combat tin foil hat theories of cheating.

I'm sure the NFL officials are aware of temperature affecting ball pressure, it's not like it's the first game they have had in the cold. So at this point, it's either nature or us. Of course, even if nature deflates balls, I believe we're still responsible if we notice and don't report it.

I'm not implying anything other than to say it's not as simple as just the refs check the pressure before the game so we're clear. Sounds to me like there is a reason why they check during the game. We have prior cases where coaches deflated balls at the college level. We know Panthers ball boys were heating up balls so they do handle them. So there is a reason WHY they check periodically.

This idea that we would bear no responsibility is just denial right now, imo.

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

It's pretty simple. If I take a step back, and interpret this rule as it's written, it seems to me that we bear the responsibility of providing and playing with correctly inflated balls, as are the refs, and they are the ones responsible for performing the checks prior the game start and during to make sure we are in compliance. If they perform checks during the game, then it also means the NFL believes its possible for a ball to be deflated during the game, whether by natural means or otherwise.

It's not just a matter of...woops we're ignorant...because we provide the balls and because to me this sounds more like we also have that responsibility.

A lot of people here are wanting to imply we bear no responsibility for playing with improperly inflated balls, only the refs do. I'm not sure that's the case.

It's on the refs, we could have given them a batch of flat balls. Or basketballs. If the refs then take them, test them, certify them, and play with them it's on the refs. The team bears no responsibility for ensuring they meet standards, if they did the team would certify them. The league made it clear the team isn't responsible when they made a rule specifying the refs are responsible. That's like saying the Patriots are in charge of the score because the light up the scoreboard the way the refs direct them to. The only power the teams have is to do what the refs tell them. Which is no power.

 

[dales804]

I'm sure the NFL officials are aware of temperature affecting ball pressure, it's not like it's the first game they have had in the cold. So at this point, it's either nature or us. Of course, even if nature deflates balls, I believe we're still responsible if we notice and don't report it.

I'm not implying anything other than to say it's not as simple as just the refs check the pressure before the game so we're clear. Sounds to me like there is a reason why they check during the game. We have prior cases where coaches deflated balls at the college level. We know Panthers ball boys were heating up balls so they do handle them. So there is a reason WHY they check periodically.

This idea that we would bear no responsibility is just denial right now, imo.

Why? It's the ref's job to make sure the ball is suitable for play. That's why they throw the balls they suspect out and do it in many games, as Dean Blandino already said. The NFL is looking to see if the ball is, in fact, below the allowable threshold and, if so, how did it get that way.

The only responsibility NE would have is if they purposely had someone deflating the ball(s) during the game.

 

[Ring 6]

I'm sure the NFL officials are aware of temperature affecting ball pressure, it's not like it's the first game they have had in the cold. So at this point, it's either nature or us. Of course, even if nature deflates balls, I believe we're still responsible if we notice and don't report it.

At this point the referee said something was wrong with the football. Everything else is speculation.

No, we are not responsible for nature.

I'm not implying anything other than to say it's not as simple as just the refs check the pressure before the game so we're clear. Sounds to me like there is a reason why they check during the game. We have prior cases where coaches deflated balls at the college level. We know Panthers ball boys were heating up balls so they do handle them. So there is a reason WHY they check periodically.

They do not 'check periodically' they remove balls that appear unacceptable.

This idea that we would bear no responsibility is just denial right now, imo.

We would be responsible if we decided to take air out of the ball and make it an illegal ball to gain an advantage. No one of any authority has said this is even under consideration.

Your claim was that the Patriots are being investigated, and again, unless you have inside, non-public information, that is not correct. It is only the fabrication of idiots on the internet.

 

[letekro]

They would have beat that team by 3 TDs playing with beach balls. Inexcusable idiocy if we thought we had to break rules to beat these guys.

 

[PatriotSeven]

So lets just ignore that this happens often, and jump right to the conspiracy theory.

It's not a conspiracy theory if the NFL is investigating it. You claimed that they are only investigating the deflation of the ball, without any suspects or suspicion of wrong doing, and if that is true, I only asked where you got that information. Because I couldn't find it on NFL.com

Hopefully you are right. I want you to be right. I just wanted to know it was a fact. I want to know if you heard it directly from the NFL, that they are simply investigating the deflation of the ball. If so great. Let's just await the investigation.

If it's simply a matter of nature, and deflation due to dropping temperature, that one should be IMMEDIATELY cleared up in a manner of hours, by performing some simple tests. If it's more than that...then I suspect we won't get an answer today.

 

[kennyb]

I'm sure the NFL officials are aware of temperature affecting ball pressure, it's not like it's the first game they have had in the cold. So at this point, it's either nature or us. Of course, even if nature deflates balls, I believe we're still responsible if we notice and don't report it.

I'm not implying anything other than to say it's not as simple as just the refs check the pressure before the game so we're clear. Sounds to me like there is a reason why they check during the game. We have prior cases where coaches deflated balls at the college level. We know Panthers ball boys were heating up balls so they do handle them. So there is a reason WHY they check periodically.

This idea that we would bear no responsibility is just denial right now, imo.

So you're saying if a ball deflates to below standard during the game no matter how then we are morally culpable. That's ridiculous.

Maybe refs measure throughout the game BECAUSE balls have been known to deflate a bit. Maybe that's why they have 12 balls in the first place.

Maybe they should give the center a pressure Guage and have him measure before each play? Then it would be on us I suppose.

 

[kennyb]

It's not a conspiracy theory if the NFL is investigating it. You claimed that they are only investigating the deflation of the ball, without any suspects or suspicion of wrong doing, and if that is true, I only asked where you got that information. Because I couldn't find it on NFL.com

Hopefully you are right. I want you to be right. I just wanted to know it was a fact. I want to know if you heard it directly from the NFL, that they are simply investigating the deflation of the ball. If so great. Let's just await the investigation.

They said the nfl investigates every ball taken out of circulation.

So investigation in and of itself is meaningless.

 

[Ring 6]

It's not a conspiracy theory if the NFL is investigating it. You claimed that they are only investigating the deflation of the ball, without any suspects or suspicion of wrong doing, and if that is true, I only asked where you got that information. Because I couldn't find it on NFL.com

Show me a credible source with knowledge of what is happening that says the Patriots are under investigation.
They investigate every ball that is removed.

Hopefully you are right. I want you to be right. I just wanted to know it was a fact. I want to know if you heard it directly from the NFL, that they are simply investigating the deflation of the ball. If so great. Let's just await the investigation.

There is no reason to suspect that it will go any further.
Frankly its insulting that people are wearing their tin foil hats implying that the ball boy was hiding a needle in his jockstrap.
We are going the MFing SB. Can't you find something better to talk about?

 

[Dillon46]

You have to be absolutely f@cking kidding me, right.......

Holy ****e, talk about grasping for straw men.

I swear to God that the pundit for everyone to imitate is if the Pats win big they must've cheated. So let's find some garbage that will stick to the wall for long enough until BSPN makes it into media driven nauseum

It's impossible to underestimate people's stupidity, lol

 

[PatriotSeven]

So you're saying if a ball deflates to below standard during the game no matter how then we are morally culpable. That's ridiculous.

Maybe refs measure throughout the game BECAUSE balls have been known to deflate a bit. Maybe that's why they have 12 balls in the first place.

Maybe they should give the center a pressure Guage and have him measure before each play? Then it would be on us I suppose.

No I think I was pretty clear. If we know the ball is deflated, by any and for any means, we are morally culpable. Come on now, I'm not interested in twisting words.

 

[kennyb]

It's not a conspiracy theory if the NFL is investigating it. You claimed that they are only investigating the deflation of the ball, without any suspects or suspicion of wrong doing, and if that is true, I only asked where you got that information. Because I couldn't find it on NFL.com

Hopefully you are right. I want you to be right. I just wanted to know it was a fact. I want to know if you heard it directly from the NFL, that they are simply investigating the deflation of the ball. If so great. Let's just await the investigation.

If it's simply a matter of nature, and deflation due to dropping temperature, that one should be IMMEDIATELY cleared up in a manner of hours, by performing some simple tests. If it's more than that...then I suspect we won't get an answer today.

There's no simple test they could do. They could see if it's leaking and if it is see if it's been punctured.

But that's it. If it's low in pressure what does that show? Maybe it got spiked or had pressure leak out during a tackle. Or maybe someone let air out. How would you know?

 

[PatriotSeven]

Show me a credible source with knowledge of what is happening that says the Patriots are under investigation.
They investigate every ball that is removed.


There is no reason to suspect that it will go any further.
Frankly its insulting that people are wearing their tin foil hats implying that the ball boy was hiding a needle in his jockstrap.
We are going the MFing SB. Can't you find something better to talk about?

Just about every media outlet reported as such from the original sources, which at the very least has some partial credibility, because it was later confirmed to be true. I said I don't have an official story that says it either way. That's why I asked. The media is reporting it one way, you are saying they are investigating it another way.

I just asked for some official info, one way or another. If you have it great, if you don't, then I don't think we should imply that there are no suspects either, since that's how it originally was reported, and thus far we have not had anyone come out and defend that.

 

[kennyb]

No I think I was pretty clear. If we know the ball is deflated, by any and for any means, we are morally culpable. Come on now, I'm not interested in twisting words.

How would they know the ball is 12.48 psi instead of 12.5?

Even if it were flat the refs are handling the ball every play. Isn't it part of their job to notice if it's flat?

 

[Ring 6]

No I think I was pretty clear. If we know the ball is deflated, by any and for any means, we are morally culpable. Come on now, I'm not interested in twisting words.

So which player is responsible for determined whether the ball is at 12.5 psi or 12.4?
Do you seriously think any player in the NFL spends a millisecond thinking about how much air is in the ball, and then, if its wrong, would decided to ignore it for some unknown reason?

Why would the Patriots even want the ball to not be regulation, aside from some silly conspiracy theory.

 

[NENGFAN]

Seriously though - this is the worst for us fans. First Spygate and now this. WTH! Fans suffer the most!

There's no simple test they could do. They could see if it's leaking and if it is see if it's been punctured.

But that's it. If it's low in pressure what does that show? Maybe it got spiked or had pressure leak out during a tackle. Or maybe someone let air out. How would you know?