Overstating the Obvious

[shmessy]

So if Welker had made the catch, then the OL blocking would have suddenly become more effective? If the defense had made ONE stop after the Welker "drop", would that have made the OL more effective?

The Pats lost those 2 superbowls, but the fact is there are several reasons that have nothing to do with how the OL blocked those days that helped cause those results, including Steven Neal's injury on the first series of the game. Despite any flaws we might have had on the OL in those 2 losing superbowls, making it seem like that was the ONLY reason we lost them is simply ridiculous. Just as ridiculous as trying to convince us that the team who, prior to this game, gave up the 3rd fewest sacks in the league, made a mistake in trading Logan Mankins despite the OVERWHELMING evidence against that position.

Taking this one game example as a representation of the OL's play is just as ridiculous as rating the Dallas OL on their Thanksgiving game against Philly. I mean didn't they give up 4 sacks and allow the Eagles to hold the top rushing game in the league to 88 yds. It was a horrendous OL performance.

I wonder if they had some dallas fan jackasses who posted on their boards what idiots their FO's were for building that OL. instead of getting more WR's

Exactly. What Deus Irae does not understand in his simplistic reasoning on why the Patriots were not good enough in SB's 42 and 46 is that those two losses by 3 and 4 points respectively, were no more or less the fault of the team any more than the 3 SB wins by 3 points were proof that the 2001, 2003 or 2004 Patriots were built any better.

3 or 4 points one way or the other, or a last minute dropped pass or dropped interception does not settle any argument over how a FO built a team built a team.

The fact that Vinatieri hit crucial FG's in the 3 wins does not indict the FO's of the 2007 and 2011 teams.

Sometimes the pellet falls into the lottery slot and sometimes it doesn't. The fact that the Patriots are always in the playoffs and get first round byes is all that is needed. The rest is how the ball bounces.

 

[shmessy]

No, it's not.



No, it didn't.

Classic.

 

[shmessy]

I DON'T CARE, I JUST CAN'T STAND IT ANYMORE!

Copycat

 

[Deus Irae]

Exactly. What Deus Irae does not understand in his simplistic reasoning on why the Patriots were not good enough in SB's 42 and 46 is that those two losses by 3 and 4 points respectively, were no more or less the fault of the team any more than the 3 SB wins by 3 points were proof that the 2001, 2003 or 2004 Patriots were built any better.

Even for you, this is a lame troll post. You've read my takes on those games, so you know better than this.

 

[Joey007]

One thing I realized last week for certain..

We need Arrington healthy.

 

[Joey007]

I DON'T CARE, I JUST CAN'T STAND IT ANYMORE!

Nope. He doesn't say "anymore" at the end. Gotta get it right here cmon let's get in-sink here.

 

[Ivan]

I DON'T CARE, I CAN'T STAND IT!!!!!!

Missed it.


DAMN YOU TO HELL SHMESSY

 

[terabthia2]

The ol is who we thought they were. Offensive line, get it?

OK, dude...Please take the needle off the record...off the record...off the record...off the rec

 

[Fencer]

very easily eliminate Gronk

I find that concept hard to grasp.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

Patriots fans have watched 2 SB losses to the Giants. They are well versed in "anything can happen".


Let's close down the board, though, because the homers can't stand hearing bad things.

Actually what they really dislike is your idiot posting.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

The two main offensive problems:

WR
OL

On OL, 4 of the 5 players are still the same, and the problem is the same.
AT WR, the problem remains the same, despite personnel changes.

If you can't see the relevance, you're blind.

Translation.........don't point out what an obvious idiot I am.

 

[shmessy]

Missed it.


DAMN YOU TO HELL SHMESSY

Mwaaahaaaahaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaa!

 

[BradyManny]

Because teams didn't play the same way precisely because of that deep threat.

IIRC, the big gamble of the Giants that game was to bank on getting to Brady before we could connect the over-the-top stuff. In fact, I think several players or DCs talked about it, and Brady referenced it when he talked about how close he was to hitting Moss before the strip fumble at the end of the half.

 

[Slagathor]

My comparisons with the 2007 and 2001 teams was not based on apples to apples deficiencies. Just the basic fact that like those teams...a visible, exploitable Achilles heal (or two) exists. I hate to agree with the two douches on 98.5 in the afternoon, but they were correct in their assessment of Rex Ryan's successes against us. Yes...he's 4-9 against us...but each game is a struggle. To some degree, he developed a team that would counter Brady...A team that can pressure Brady every single down, usually with just four guys. I love Tom Brady to death...but he does get frustrated when out of rhythm. Like any other QB to be sure...but it becomes a bigger problem when we can't duplicate those conditions defensively against a good opposing QB.

 

[Ring 6]

My comparisons with the 2007 and 2001 teams was not based on apples to apples deficiencies. Just the basic fact that like those teams...a visible, exploitable Achilles heal (or two) exists. I hate to agree with the two douches on 98.5 in the afternoon, but they were correct in their assessment of Rex Ryan's successes against us. Yes...he's 4-9 against us...but each game is a struggle.

The 9 wins were by 17, 42,9,21,3,30,3,2,1
So over the last 4 years Rex is 1-7 against the Patriots, and you feel that he did a good job because 4 of the 7 losses were close?

To some degree, he developed a team that would counter Brady...A team that can pressure Brady every single down, usually with just four guys. I love Tom Brady to death...but he does get frustrated when out of rhythm. Like any other QB to be sure...but it becomes a bigger problem when we can't duplicate those conditions defensively against a good opposing QB.

Why would you want to duplicate what Rex Ryan does on defense? Because you think 3 or 4 plays are cool?
In the last 4 years Ryans defenses are 21nd in points allowed, 29th in takeaways and 19th in sacks.
You seem to either not be watching or only looking at 3 plays a game.

I'm sure you think our defense sucks, so lets compare. Again, last 4 years, which includes the 2011 Patriots defense which was the worst of the BB era.

Points allowed
Patriots 7th 1307
Jets 21st 1502
Yes, that tremendous Rex Ryan defense has allowed almost 200 more points than the Patriots in the last 4 years, and is ranked in the bottom 3rd of the league.
But wait, that pass rush is scary.............


Sacks
Patriots 8th 163
Jets 19th 144
Wait, you mean the Jets are in the bottom 3rd in allowing points and also below average, no wait below the sucky Patriots who can't generate any pass rush at all? I'm befuddled.
Oh, wait though, Ryan strikes fear in opposing QBs so while he doesn't sack them and allows them a lot of points, I guess he must get a boatload of takeaways, yeah, thats it.

Oops.

Takeways
Patriots 1st 128
Jets 29th 81

Thats right, the Patriots stupid, conservative, lame style of defense has 47 more takeaways in 63 games.

So lets see.
Rex is so great that he allowed 195 more points in 63 games.
While doing so, he got 19 less sacks, and 47 less takeaways.
I forgot, what is he good at?

 

[Rob0729]

I knew Deus would turn this thread into an "I told you so" about Mankins and Welker without actually bringing up their names specifically. He is too predictable.

I will say this.

• Watching Welker this year, he would be useless on the Pats right now because he is nearly useless with the Broncos and he is their primary slot receiver. Here he would have been fighting for reps with Edelman and we know who would win that battle.
• And as of right now, losing Mankins has done nothing to hurt the Pats. They have HFA advantage throughout the playoffs and having Mankins couldn't make the Pats any better than that. We will see if the o-line will be an issue in the playoffs. It was not an issue when Connolly was playing and healthy. It was only an issue after he got injured. Hopefully, he will be 100% by the division round.

Right now, the only team with less concerns than the Pats are probably the Seahawks who are rolling (although only facing mediocre to bad offenses in recent weeks). People are now trying to blow issues out of proportions (some to fit agendas).

The o-line issues are something to keep an eye on, but I think people are magnifying the problems. Even with the struggles in recent weeks, the Pats dominated games other than this current week.

 

[Slagathor]

The 9 wins were by 17, 42,9,21,3,30,3,2,1
So over the last 4 years Rex is 1-7 against the Patriots, and you feel that he did a good job because 4 of the 7 losses were close?






Why would you want to duplicate what Rex Ryan does on defense? Because you think 3 or 4 plays are cool?
In the last 4 years Ryans defenses are 21nd in points allowed, 29th in takeaways and 19th in sacks.
You seem to either not be watching or only looking at 3 plays a game.

I'm sure you think our defense sucks, so lets compare. Again, last 4 years, which includes the 2011 Patriots defense which was the worst of the BB era.

Points allowed
Patriots 7th 1307
Jets 21st 1502
Yes, that tremendous Rex Ryan defense has allowed almost 200 more points than the Patriots in the last 4 years, and is ranked in the bottom 3rd of the league.
But wait, that pass rush is scary.............


Sacks
Patriots 8th 163
Jets 19th 144
Wait, you mean the Jets are in the bottom 3rd in allowing points and also below average, no wait below the sucky Patriots who can't generate any pass rush at all? I'm befuddled.
Oh, wait though, Ryan strikes fear in opposing QBs so while he doesn't sack them and allows them a lot of points, I guess he must get a boatload of takeaways, yeah, thats it.

Oops.

Takeways
Patriots 1st 128
Jets 29th 81

Thats right, the Patriots stupid, conservative, lame style of defense has 47 more takeaways in 63 games.

So lets see.
Rex is so great that he allowed 195 more points in 63 games.
While doing so, he got 19 less sacks, and 47 less takeaways.
I forgot, what is he good at?

Let me ask you a question. Did the flow or outcome of Sunday's game surprise you? Nobody came out of watching that game saying "gee....I'm surprised they played us so tight...." The Jets have an overall talent issue, especially at the most important position on the field. Stats don't tell the whole story. Rex, in coaching an average to below average team gives Brady and our O-line fits more than not.

I'm not a big stat acolyte...I leave that to the Manning cult. Those numbers don't tell the whole story.

Ryan's philosophy has not produced W's for the Jets but it has always provided a clear blueprint on how to beat the Pats.

 

[Ring 6]

Let me ask you a question. Did the flow or outcome of Sunday's game surprise you? Nobody came out of watching that game saying "gee....I'm surprised they played us so tight...." The Jets have an overall talent issue, especially at the most important position on the field. Stats don't tell the whole story. Rex, in coaching an average to below average team gives Brady and our O-line fits more than not.

Not sure I understand your point. We play them twice a year and sometimes those games are tough. Just like sometimes our other 14 games are tough.
We have scored an average of 28.5 points a game against Rex Ryans Jets. Yes, some of those games have been tight, but its the NFL what do you expect? 1-7 with a few close games is not good.
Ryan has had 6 years to put a team together, and has failed.

I'm not a big stat acolyte...I leave that to the Manning cult. Those numbers don't tell the whole story.

Lame excuse. Counting accumulated stats to make an excuse for being better than your record, is a far cry from what a defense does in terms of allowing points, and taking the ball away. The performance on the field totally belies your opinion of that defense, as well as ours.

Ryan's philosophy has not produced W's for the Jets but it has always provided a clear blueprint on how to beat the Pats.

1-7. Please give me the list of all the teams that copied Rex Ryan to create a blueprint to beat the Patriots. They do not exist.
What you are trying to say is teams that play good defense beat us more often, which is correct, and that Rex Ryan plays good defense, which is not so correct, and therefore Rex Ryan beats the Patriots. It is ludicrous.

The Dolphins in the last 4 years are 2-6 against us, and have allowed only 224 points, 28 per game while the Jets are 1-7 and have allowed 250, 31.25 per game. So have the Dolphins showed the league the blueprint to beating the Patriots?

 

[Ivan]

OK, dude...Please take the needle off the record...off the record...off the record...off the rec

When I see the crap that people like Kennyb spew it takes me back to the fact that they were the ones who said they sucked and would never be in this position to begin with. Now they want to say "I told you so " when they were in fact %100 wrong all along.

 

[Clonamery]

Let me ask you a question. Did the flow or outcome of Sunday's game surprise you? Nobody came out of watching that game saying "gee....I'm surprised they played us so tight...." The Jets have an overall talent issue, especially at the most important position on the field. Stats don't tell the whole story. Rex, in coaching an average to below average team gives Brady and our O-line fits more than not.

I'm not a big stat acolyte...I leave that to the Manning cult. Those numbers don't tell the whole story.

Ryan's philosophy has not produced W's for the Jets but it has always provided a clear blueprint on how to beat the Pats.

Sometimes things pass an "eye" test; sometimes things pass a "smell" test.

I take you (right or wrong) for an "eye" test kind of guy and the Jets/Ryan defenses pass.

For me, the Jets "smell" and are a big fail.