BobDigital
Pro Bowl Player
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CLICK HERE to Register for a free account and login for a smoother ad-free experience. It's easy, and only takes a few moments.47 catches is not producing 'on a par or better than JE'.
An awful lot of WRs have come through here and been unable to handle this offense. Chad? Galloway? You have no idea how any of those guys would do in this offense. Brady /doesn't/ automatically make every WR better. Watkins is soft. How do you suppose he'd do at punt returner? How about at DB?
JE has 1360 yards for the Pats so far this year. He'll end up with close to 1600. Desean Jackson is projected to finish with aroun 1150.
You're counting punt return yards, which means nothing in a discussion of who's a better WR. Jackson has more receiving yards even with a dumpster fire at QB. I don't care how Watkins would do at DB or PR because that's 100% irrelevant to the discussion of who's a better WR.
And by 47 catches, I think you actually meant 57, which is how many Mike Evans has. What you fail to mention is that, with those 57 catches, he has produced 935 yards (more than Edelman) and 10 TDs (a whole lot more than Edelman). Again, with an absolute dumpster fire at QB in Glennon and McCown. This is one of the most egregious instances of cherrypicking stats that I've ever seen on Patsfans, which is really saying something.
If these are the best arguments that you can make in Edelman's favor, then I'll go ahead and consider my point made. I do have one last question, though, which I really do want you to answer: do you believe that Brady gets makes his WRs significantly better than a QB like Kyle Orton, Robert Griffin, or Josh McCown does?
Well, other than the fact that he spends a large part of his time on the outside.This again? Folks, Like Welker, JE benefits enormously from the position he plays and the QB he plays with. Put him outside,even with Brady, and he ll get shut down. Weve seen this. Guys that can beat man coverage on the outside are the bishops on the chessboard, the slot receiver is more like a pawn. While great in his role (short passes and bubble screens), he cant be rated among the better receivers in the league, who threaten all parts of the field.
Well, other than the fact that he spends a large part of his time on the outside.
Sure he can. Most - most - of the name mentioned so far don't play with scrubs either. Nelson/Cobb - Rodgers, DThomas - Manning, Brown - Roethlisberger, hell even Marshall/Jeffrey - Cutler, etc. etc. Those QBs are all good enough to have a go-to WR or WR duo that has some games and puts up numbers.he cant be rated among the better receivers in the league, who threaten all parts of the field.
I think he's out there more than you think. Not sure how I could confirm it though without looking at video of all the games. I've heard from various places that he's outside as much as 50 percent of the plays he's on the field. Take it for what it's worth.Um. Define "large part". He is out there sometimes, but generally only to catch a screen, block for same, or beeline immediately to the middle of the field. He is not an outside receiver by any stretch.
30-40? With all due respect, and I mean that, if YOU mean that you're just dead wrong. He's far, far, far better than that.I have not looked at the entire list of WRs but right now I would probably put in in the 30-40 range not counting his return ability and based only on his WR ability. Also this does not count TEs/RBs.
Sure he can. Most - most - of the name mentioned so far don't play with scrubs either. Nelson/Cobb - Rodgers, DThomas - Manning, Brown - Roethlisberger, hell even Marshall/Jeffrey - Cutler, etc. etc. Those QBs are all good enough to have a go-to WR or WR duo that has some games and puts up numbers.
Mike Evans would be a good counter-argument, I'll admit.
Yes Edelman's team, his QB, and his system impact his production and value. But I'm not going to hold that against him. The fact that stats/production are padded by a system that funnels targets and yards to the best players on the team is not unique to NE.
Jordy Nelson wouldn't threaten a hot dog stand if he played in Jacksonville. But that's true of most of those guys.
I agree. Add to that, who cares where he is. As long as he's on the field moving the sticks. If you rank him among best paid, best stats, biggest mouth, best fantasy points,,,etc, no, Edes wouldn't be the guy. But who else would you trade, today, to replace his production with the Pats right now?I think he's out there more than you think. Not sure how I could confirm it though without looking at video of all the games. I've heard from various places that he's outside as much as 50 percent of the plays he's on the field. Take it for what it's worth.
Edelman will most likely never play corner again. So that doesn't matter in a wr discussion. Just like ninkovich can long snap in am emergency. But that doesn't make him a better defensive end than Chandler Jones.DeSean Jackson has 47, that's who I'm referring to. And yes, I'm counting everything, because I'm concerned about who is /more valuable to the team/ not who puts up more gaudy highlight reel stuff. The Pats, under BB and Brady have had exactly ONE year where they had that can of stuff.
As to your last question, of course Brady does better than the QBs you listed. But if you think that guarentees that any one of those particular players would perform better here, we'll agree to disagree. They might, the might not. As you point out, one guys is his team's entire offense.
A lot of it is /when/ the production is made. A 40 yard TD when you're losing 31-6 and you're 3 games under .500 is worth a LOT less than an 8 yard catch when it's 3 and 7 and you're fighting for the number one seed. And last I checked, JE was on pace for his second straight 100 catch, 1000 yard season.Edelman will most likely never play corner again. So that doesn't matter in a wr discussion. Just like ninkovich can long snap in am emergency. But that doesn't make him a better defensive end than Chandler Jones.
So you wouldn't want a wr to put up more yards and td, because that is highlight stuff? Guess you really doesn't care about Edelmans return tds either then. How is 1000y 10tds not helping a team?
This is not critiquing Edelman. Just saying that it's stupid to say he is a better wr because he could, but certainly never will, play corner. And that a wr producing means nothing at all and doesn't help the team
I would say he is a top 25 WR in the NFL. However he is probably the best slot WR.
Ok, so he should get points taken away for playing for a team that is using him correctly, and towards achieving the goal of winning games? How many years has Megatron been dominating outside routes on a ****ty-to-mediocre team? Larry Fitzgerald, same question. If all they have to do to make them even more productive is put them in the slot so they can't get jammed (your thesis), them shame on their coaches for not doing so. If the response to that comment is that Julian Edelman has a different skill set that those guys don't have that allows him to produce by lining up in different places on the field - then let's give him his due for having those skills and producing.My main point (and the one you quoted) is that getting open from the slot is a much easier proposition given the fact that you are generally off the LOS (and therefore you cant really be jammed) and you can go left or right. On the outside, you have the sudeline doible teaming you. Jordy Nelson and many of the guys u mention can get open from that position and do major damage downfield. JE is a much much easier cover when he's out there. This is irrelevant to who the QB is
DeSean Jackson has 47, that's who I'm referring to. And yes, I'm counting everything, because I'm concerned about who is /more valuable to the team/ not who puts up more gaudy highlight reel stuff.
As to your last question, of course Brady does better than the QBs you listed. But if you think that guarentees that any one of those particular players would perform better here, we'll agree to disagree. They might, the might not. As you point out, one guys is his team's entire offense.