***** Official Deus Irae 9/7/2014 game observations (and more) thread *****

[primetime]

Stevie Johnson, of all people, used to kill Revis. Moss and Welker had their moments too. No player is infallible.

 

[JMC00]

EVERY team struggles in South Florida early in a season.

Not even sure it is just early in the season. One of Seattle's losses during their run over the last 1.5 years was in Miami coming off the bye week in November.

 

[Ivan]

I don't think Mankins was missed that much unless they moved him to RT and put him on Cameron Wake who had Vollmer for lunch. The Pats could have easily won without Mankins yesterday if people outside of the LG position did their job.

I didn't like that Kelly was cut, but he asked for his release. It is a tough issue. Do you keep a disgruntled veteran on the roster who you only intend to use in certain role who could poison the locker room or do you respect his wish to let him go to find a place where he can get more playing time. I don't know if it is an easy answer. I probably would have kept him, but knowing he asked for his release, I don't think it is cut and dry.

As for the d-line in general, I hate that they are doing a 3-4 especially with smaller guys like Chandler Jones and Dominque Easley playing DE in a 3-4. I think if you are going with small quick guys like that inside, you go with a four man front. Now if Jones is playing OLB (like he did in the preseason), then I don't mind it as much. I may give them another week with hopefully Chris Jones returning and Siliga being another week healed, but I think the formation based on the personnel was a bigger issue than missing Kelly.

As for Amendola, he wasn't the reason the offense sputtered either. Brady spread the ball around quite a bit yesterday in the first half. It is funny. Everyone in the game thread were talking about all the weapons Brady had in the first half. I know Amendola is viewed as the Welker replacement and the expectations are higher or him (or at least the hate when he doesn't produce is greater), but if Edelman and Gronk are drawing a lot attention guys like Thompkins and Vereen should be open too. No one stepped up when Gronk and Edelman disappeared, not just Amendola.

BTW, I think Edelman was injured in the first half and that was why he disappeared in the second half.

I am done talking about Deus in this thread. So I will just reiterate that we just have different points of view.

That's reasonable enough, and i don't really disagree with it that much. I agree that the rest of the OL sucked but they could have used Mankins and he was missed imo, however I still agree with the trade even though it won't pay off unless they use that cash to get important deals done. I agree on the base defense and really don't understand what Belichick is thinking drafting easely and then going 3-4. This is a 4-3 defense if I ever saw one in terms of personel and going 3-4 with it is as puzzling as anything I have ever seen them do. I also agree on what happened with the receivers and think the Amendola bashing is idiotic even if his performance yesterday was less than stellar, you can only catch what they throw at you but Amendola has to make them want to go to him as much as possible.

As far as Deus goes I don't like it when he''s grinding an agenda and i don't like the agenda driven posts at all regardless of who is creating them but imo that post was an accurate take on that game, i agreed with most of it and didn't get any sense he was trying to force an agenda on us, unlike those trashing Amendola..

 

[Tunescribe]

EVERY team struggles in South Florida early in a season. Seriously, I live in CT and I'm in reasonably good shape, and I'm pouring with sweat if I walk up a midsized flight of stairs on a 90 degree 90% humidity day. And we're all shocked we lost because our fattest guys (linemen, both sides of the ball) couldn't handle it for a full 3 hours against a very talented squad playing in home conditions?

I go back and forth on this issue. It's not like going from 40s to 80s in November. They just finished summer training camp. Yet, they DID look slow and gassed in the second half. Hell, half the stadium was empty the whole game so the fans even have trouble handling it.

 

[Ivan]

Stevie Johnson, of all people, used to kill Revis. Moss and Welker had their moments too. No player is infallible.

Agree, however Kontra is right about the coaches misusing him, whether that is on belichick or Patricia is unknown and we will probably not find out who is behind it although my money is on Belichick as he ultimately calls the shots and patricia will do what belichick wants him to do, he certainly isn't going against his wishes. And as much as i want them to re-sign revis long term they might as well not waste the money if they aren't going to use him as a man cover.

 

[Boston D Party]

I go back and forth on this issue. It's not like going from 40s to 80s in November. They just finished summer training camp. Yet, they DID look slow and gassed in the second half. Hell, half the stadium was empty the whole game so the fans even have trouble handling it.

True enough, but assuming Miami's roster isn't composed of more than maybe 10-15% new players, most of them have one or more full seasons of experience practicing and playing in those conditions year round. Also, July in Massachusetts isn't preparation for heat and humidity as much as July in South Beach.

 

[Rob0729]

That's reasonable enough, and i don't really disagree with it that much. I agree that the rest of the OL sucked but they could have used Mankins and he was missed imo, however I still agree with the trade even though it won't pay off unless they use that cash to get important deals done. I agree on the base defense and really don't understand what Belichick is thinking drafting easely and then going 3-4. This is a 4-3 defense if I ever saw one in terms of personel and going 3-4 with it is as puzzling as anything I have ever seen them do. I also agree on what happened with the receivers and think the Amendola bashing is idiotic even if his performance yesterday was less than stellar, you can only catch what they throw at you but Amendola has to make them want to go to him as much as possible.

As far as Deus goes I don't like it when he''s grinding an agenda and i don't like the agenda driven posts at all regardless of who is creating them but imo that post was an accurate take on that game, i agreed with most of it and didn't get any sense he was trying to force an agenda on us, unlike those trashing Amendola..

As for the trade, there is a number of ways the trade could pay off. What if Wright becomes a solid weapon for Brady once he becomes more acclimated?

 

[ATippett56]

Zach Moore active. Zach Moore defensive snaps - 0.

New England Patriots' defensive snaps: Rob Ninkovich dips - espnBoston

Joe Vellano just plain sucks.

Jordan Devey just plain sucks at offensive guard and at best should be the fourth offensive tackle inactive for the vast majority of games (refer to Will Svitek circa 2013).

The 3-4 defensive alignment needs to be scrapped immediately. Run defense? What run defense?

Brandon LaFell = Brandon LaFail

 

[ATippett56]

As for the trade, there is a number of ways the trade could pay off. What if Wright becomes a solid weapon for Brady once he becomes more acclimated?

Does not matter if Tom Brady is on his back due to a porous offensive line.

 

[RayClay]

i dont see how that video is relevant.....chad rounded off a route instead of making a sharp cut.....it says nothing of how well the CB was staying with him if he went deep....or what the FS was doing

i suppose the larger point is whether the offense is about just reading the defense the same as brady, regardless of what the defenders are doing

if thats the case, then it is literally impossible for brady to make a wrong read.......i doubt that is the way it is set up by BB and JM........but i could be wrong

It's a timing offense. Brady does not wait to see what the receivers do before throwing the ball. The ball goes where Brady's read says. What possible other criterion for reading the defense correctly could there be, except ending up where the ball is, and headed to where the play was intended to go.

Maybe I'm missing something.

It is possible for Brady to make a bad read, in which case, it is the receivers job to get to that spot despite the defense, if only to break up an interception. There is no right read that puts you someplace other than where the ball is, since the ball is thrown to a spot at a certain time, not to a receiver.

 

[primetime]

Does not matter if Tom Brady is on his back due to a porous offensive line.

Not sure Mankins would make any difference here. Especially since most of the pressure came from the outside yesterday. They're not going to face a Cameron Wake every week - he is an always has been severely underrated - but the outside pressure was worrying.

 

[Rob0729]

Does not matter if Tom Brady is on his back due to a porous offensive line.

Again, what did the loss of Mankins have to do with the fact that both Vollmer and Solder were getting beat outside one on one?

 

[mayoclinic]

Jordan Devey just plain sucks at offensive guard and at best should be the fourth offensive tackle inactive for the vast majority of games (refer to Will Svitek circa 2013).

Bingo.

The 3-4 defensive alignment needs to be scrapped immediately. Run defense? What run defense?

Double bingo.

 

[JMC00]

Again, what did the loss of Mankins have to do with the fact that both Vollmer and Solder were getting beat outside one on one?

He also wouldn't have done anything to help the play that really changed the game in Miami's favor when they had the can't block or catch Hoohwhogivesacrap out there trying to block Cameron Wake.

 

[Miguel]

Just for whatever it's worth, Kelly and his agent asked NE and Belichick for the release...it wasn't Belichick deciding to move on from Kelly.

We discussed this at length in another thread in the middle of last week, and a couple of posters including @RayClay cited articles that quoted Tommy Kelly as describing a problem with the fact that "I'm starting, yet they kept taking me out for some reason as well."

It sounded to me and @Oswlek (very clearly, actually) that when Kelly agreed to a restructure in the spring, there were some incentivized escalators thrown in, and that he feared that Belichick was purposely holding him out of reaching those escalators by not allowing him to play enough snaps/reps by the end of the season.

Kelly even made mention of the contract situation by saying "there was the deal with the contract," which certainly sounded like he felt that Belichick didn't want him to play a certain number of snaps in the 2014 season. Kelly claims that "he called his agent" and asked for his release.

Whether or not you decide to buy into @Oswlek and my belief that he asked to be released due to the escalators in his contract and the fear that he was being replaced/rotated too much to reach his possible incentives, he definitely, 100%, without a doubt asked to be released from the NE Patriots as a couple of articles stated (they were from his new team/city in ARZ). There were direct quotes from Tommy Kelly stating such, and stating that he immediately called his agent and asked to be released. This wasn't on Belichick. This was on Tommy Kelly's decision, although Kelly definitely felt as though he was being wronged by not being allowed to play as much as he wanted.

Tweeted your findings. Was retweeted by the Globe's Zuri Berry. Now there are stories on SBNation and Patriots.Com. Once again, PatsFans.Com breaks a story.

 

[ATippett56]

Again, what did the loss of Mankins have to do with the fact that both Vollmer and Solder were getting beat outside one on one?

If that's the prevailing thought, it's time to draft a brand new offensive line.

 

[james87654]

It's a timing offense. Brady does not wait to see what the receivers do before throwing the ball. The ball goes where Brady's read says. What possible other criterion for reading the defense correctly could there be, except ending up where the ball is, and headed to where the play was intended to go.

Maybe I'm missing something.

It is possible for Brady to make a bad read, in which case, it is the receivers job to get to that spot despite the defense, if only to break up an interception. There is no right read that puts you someplace other than where the ball is, since the ball is thrown to a spot at a certain time, not to a receiver.

fair enough.....i get that brady looks at the defense and then, having memorized/visualized the WR options, throws it where he thinks the open guy will be or the best matchup.....i just take issue with the assumption that bradys read is correct no matter what

in more concrete terms.....suppose edelman is running up field 5 yards and then has the option to cut in or out, etc......and the cb is playing him to the inside.....and the lb is also there on his inside......edelman sees this and cuts out......brady (for some reason) throws it inside and its picked off......is this edelmans fault for not "seeing" it the same way as brady and not going inside despite the two guys being right there?......instead of cutting outside and being wide open

the edelman pass at 9:38 in the 4th......i cant see how anyone can view that not as brady either misthrowing or misreading the pass

 

[ATippett56]

Again, what did the loss of Mankins have to do with the fact that both Vollmer and Solder were getting beat outside one on one?

One of sacks allowed was having a tight end try to block Cameron Wake while the running back failed to chip the aforementioned defensive end. That's scheme and not the fault of Vollmer.

 

[JMC00]

If that's the prevailing thought, it's time to draft a brand new offensive line.

Well I thought drafting Stork and Fleming signaled that. Fleming will replace Vollmer it's just a matter of in 2015 or 2016. Injuries and drop in play will make Vollmer a target for a cap casualty. $500k freed in 2015 and $2.2m in '16 if cut.

Solder if he doesn't take another step I could see him not being here past '15 and if he is still here it will mean he came back on the deal the team wanted.

 

[primetime]

Wake got off really, really fast on that play. Both players assigned to block him completely whiffed. It might not have been a very sensible blocking scheme, but give credit where credit is due. Wake was a monster yesterday.