Squealers' Coach Tomlin Cheats to Prevent TD

[coolguy]

No it was not. Taping signals is legal and always was. Taping from the sidelines was legal until the 2006 memo banning the practice.

The problem was Bill's arrogance... he figured he'd just get an edge by ignoring that memo....because he was arrogant enough to think he could lawyer his way out of it when caught and outwit the commissioner. He paid the price for his arrogance and so did the organization.

Thank you for posting a valid response to what i posted instead of juvenile insults.

My point is this sideline incident will be forgotten when the regular season is over just like the jason kidd cup incident... The cloud of "spygate" has severely damaged bill's credibility and the patriots reputation.

Tom brady is the only one who has remained unblemished from all of that mess.

 

[coolguy]

It won't... especially if Brady and Bill have already won their last ring. we'll just have to live with it as fans.

You seem to be the only one unbiased enough to see where i'm coming from :rocker:

 

[sb1]

well the general consensus is that the pats punishment was NOT excessive.

It is seen as excessive here, yes.

So in that case, a 1st round pick punishment is appropriate for deliberate messing with the game and then lying about it.

If it can be proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that Tomlin deliberately interfered with a play on the field then we would be talking about losing first round draft picks. But as we know that can't possibly be proven.

Now Bill admitting he taped from the sidelines because he was playing lawyer with the wording of the memo... that's a different animal. That's proof that he broke the rules.

Perfectly understandable that we want to see the grief that's been coming down on us and the Pats organization since 2007 go to another team... but it won't and shouldn't start with this.

 

[sb1]

You seem to be the only one unbiased enough to see where i'm coming from :rocker:

Most fans think the Pats cheated to win titles. We (and a few informed fans of other teams) know they did not. We all know that kind of taping was legal back then.

Unfortunately perception is reality. Perception is what taints dynasties.

That's why it won't go away. I mean it's been 40 years since the Steelers PED cheated their way to a dynasty and that hasn't been forgotten. So why would this. We'll just have to wear it...it is what it is.

Personally I would have had a real problem if that Rams walkthrough tape existed. That would have ruined that first SB win for me. I can't imagine the grief we would have taken if that had truth to it. I would also think the Pats would have a new head coach right now if that were true. Thankfully it did not exist.

 

[coolguy]

"c) what makes you so sure that the situation would have been a bigger mess for the Pats (and not the NFL itself) had Roger not destroyed the tapes?"

Because it made it seem like roger saw something worse and didn't want the public to see it.

It's the same thing as the ray lewis white suit that vanished off the face of the earth.

Had everyone seen what was on the tapes the media and fans would have stopped guessing what games bill "spied" on .

Now every player the patriots beat can claim something fishy was up because they don't know which games were on those tapes.

 

[sb1]

Thank you for posting a valid response to what i posted instead of juvenile insults.

My point is this sideline incident will be forgotten when the regular season is over just like the jason kidd cup incident... The cloud of "spygate" has severely damaged bill's credibility and the patriots reputation.

Tom brady is the only one who has remained unblemished from all of that mess.

Yep, can't disagree with all of that. We have Bill's arrogance to thank.

 

[sb1]

"c) what makes you so sure that the situation would have been a bigger mess for the Pats (and not the NFL itself) had Roger not destroyed the tapes?"

Because it made it seem like roger saw something worse and didn't want the public to see it.

It's the same thing as the ray lewis white suit that vanished off the face of the earth.

Had everyone seen what was on the tapes the media and fans would have stopped guessing what games bill "spied" on .

Now every player the patriots beat can claim something fishy was up because they don't know which games were on those tapes.

The only thing I can think of that would have been worse than what we already know was that Rams walkthrough tape. That would have been indefensible.

I too think all of them should have been made public but I get why they were destroyed - to keep the other team's signals away from the Pats and any other team.

 

[coolguy]

Re: OT: Squealers' Coach Tomlin Cheats to Prevent TD

The only thing I can think of that would have been worse than what we already know was that Rams walkthrough tape. That would have been indefensible.

I too think all of them should have been made public but I get why they were destroyed - to keep the other team's signals away from the Pats and any other team.

or at least tell us which games were taped.

Now everyone thinks the pats tapped every game they won

Luckily for brady his legacy has remained untouched and has grown since 07.

 

[sb1]

Re: OT: Squealers' Coach Tomlin Cheats to Prevent TD

or at least tell us which games were taped.

Now everyone thinks the pats tapped every game they won

Luckily for brady his legacy has remained untouched and has grown since 07.

Yup. But it won't grow for long if he doesn't start playing better in the playoffs. Especially if he wants the legacy of having the most rings by a starting QB in NFL history. This is the era of passing in the NFL, and this should be Brady's time.

I remember calculating his average passer rating since the AFC Divisional round in 2007 and if you don't count the Tebow game it's something like 83. Since that Jags playoff game he's played great in 2 games (The tebow game and the Texans game last year), and in every other postseason game he's either been ordinary or just flat out stunk. That ain't going to cut it.

 

[GaryfromTO]

I don't like The Steelers, never have, never will.
BUT
I have watched this replay over and over and I still cannot see where Tomlin did anything intentionally.
He's watching the scoreboard, and then when he realizes he's in the way, he steps back to avoid the runner coming down the sideline. If anything, it looks like he was trying to get out of the way.
And, as far as I can tell, the Raven player was not interefered with, did not slow up, and was about to be caught by the Pitsburgh defender anyway.

 

[coolguy]

Re: OT: Squealers' Coach Tomlin Cheats to Prevent TD

Yup. But it won't grow for long if he doesn't start playing better in the playoffs. Especially if he wants the legacy of having the most rings by a starting QB in NFL history. This is the era of passing in the NFL, and this should be Brady's time.

I remember calculating his average passer rating since the AFC Divisional round in 2007 and if you don't count the Tebow game it's something like 83. Since that Jags playoff game he's played great in 2 games (The tebow game and the Texans game last year), and in every other postseason game he's either been ordinary or just flat out stunk. That ain't going to cut it.

I won't go that far. Brady has played some great defenses that knew how to limit his weapons.

 

[Gumby]

The only thing I can think of that would have been worse than what we already know was that Rams walkthrough tape. That would have been indefensible.

I too think all of them should have been made public but I get why they were destroyed - to keep the other team's signals away from the Pats and any other team.

Then you are proving that after 6 years, YOU STILL DONT UNDERSTAND.

 

[sb1]

Re: OT: Squealers' Coach Tomlin Cheats to Prevent TD

I won't go that far. Brady has played some great defenses that knew how to limit his weapons.

HOF QBs can learn to beat those defenses that are set up to stop him.

He needs to be a lot better in the playoffs than he's been the last few years.
And so does his OL.

 

[sb1]

Then you are proving that after 6 years, YOU STILL DONT UNDERSTAND.

Don't understand what?

 

[NYCPatsFan]

"c) what makes you so sure that the situation would have been a bigger mess for the Pats (and not the NFL itself) had Roger not destroyed the tapes?"

Because it made it seem like roger saw something worse and didn't want the public to see it.

Roger seeing something worse on those tapes - that is what I suggested when I mentioned in brackets "and not the NFL itself".

You conclude that tapes could have showed worse only about the Pats; I suspect it could have been a league wide issue.

Neither of us will know the answer and the only thing we agree is that destroying the tapes was immature as it raised more questions than it answered.

 

[Gumby]

Don't understand what?

That signals WERE NEVER BEING PROTECTED by Go-to-Hell.


What was being protected was HIS AUTHORITY.


The regular and authorized game-film locations, still photography, and other visual observing-manual recording methods can still LEGALLY (PER NFL RULES or lack thereof) capture signals and be used in future encounters.



That is why teams CHANGE THEIR SIGNALS every time they play division opponents (because they play them 2 x a year).



So saying that Go-to-Hell destroyed the tapes to protect something that is INHERENTLY UNPROTECTABLE..... IS A WEAKAZZ ARGUMENT and just plain silly for anyone who has been on this board for any length of time..

 

[sb1]

That signals WERE NEVER BEING PROTECTED by Go-to-Hell.


What was being protected was HIS AUTHORITY.


The regular and authorized game-film locations, still photography, and other visual observing-manual recording methods can still LEGALLY (PER NFL RULES or lack thereof) capture signals and be used in future encounters.



That is why teams CHANGE THEIR SIGNALS every time they play division opponents (because they play them 2 x a year).



So saying that Go-to-Hell destroyed the tapes to protect something that is INHERENTLY UNPROTECTABLE..... IS A WEAKAZZ ARGUMENT and just plain silly for anyone who has been on this board for any length of time..

It was his explanation and I don't really have a problem with it. And if another tape showed up, Bill would have probably been suspended. I can buy that too. EIther way it doesn't matter, they were destroyed and unfortunately that will lead to a lot of people wondering what were on those tapes.

 

[Gumby]

It was his explanation and I don't really have a problem with it. And if another tape showed up, Bill would have probably been suspended. I can buy that too. EIther way it doesn't matter, they were destroyed and unfortunately that will lead to a lot of people wondering what were on those tapes.

Fair enough, you accept factually untrue defenses based on unrelated issues that are actually just hand-waving arguments as 'sufficient'. More power to you.

If I tell you to put leaded gas in your unleaded car because cars were invented by Eli Whitney; I guess you would accept that argument too.

 

[Bobsyouruncle]

I don't understand the controversy over destroying the tapes. They showed one of them, it's exactly what they said it was. The scoreboard, the signal, the play. Repeat for 3 hours. It's not like Jimmy Hoffa is in there. To this day teams still tape from the sidelines. If you want to find out which games they taped look at the tv footage. The ones with a Patriot employee holding a camera the size of a howitzer on the sidelines are the ones he taped. The Patriots made no secret of taping.

 

[jmt57]

I don't understand the controversy over destroying the tapes. They showed one of them, it's exactly what they said it was. The scoreboard, the signal, the play. Repeat for 3 hours. It's not like Jimmy Hoffa is in there. To this day teams still tape from the sidelines. If you want to find out which games they taped look at the tv footage. The ones with a Patriot employee holding a camera the size of a howitzer on the sidelines are the ones he taped. The Patriots made no secret of taping.

Actually it was two tapes that were made public: one in mid-season by Jay Glazer on Fox (where Goodell's wife happens to work), and then the second one at the Walsh hearings.

But your point is absolutely correct: we all saw what was on the tapes. The conspiracy theorists will never really respond to that, though. Like almost all conspiracy theorists, they will stick to accusations which can not be refuted (nor proven).