Dennard Sentenced to 30 days + 100 hours Community Service

[Deus Irae]

I think people are misinterpreting your point.

The fact is, Goodell has made it clear that he believes that the NFL can penalize players for violations of the conduct policy that took place before they were drafted.

Whether he SHOULD penalize players is another matter for debate. But there is no question that Goodell's own interpretation of NFL rules give him that authority (and his interpretation unfortunately is the only one that initially counts).

There's really nothing to debate about that. He imposed a suspension with Pryor, for activities before he was drafted, and Greg Ailello, the spokesman for Goodell, stated clearly that the League will review the Dennard case.

That wasn't under the personal conduct policy. That was for trying to circumvent the rules of the CBA, and it was a deal that Pryor was willing to enter into.

What does Deus think Goodell is reviewing the case for, if not to consider additional sanctions????

I think they'll "review" the case just as they do all incidents. In this particular case, unless Goodell wants to risk another beat down in court, the review will start, and end, with "Can we do anything here? No? Ok, we reviewed it." If Goodell tries to push it further than that, this will become an arbitration/court case. You're acting as if the mere act of reviewing something gives Goodell authority to act. It doesn't.

Is this situation the same as Pryor's actions before he was drafted? No.

Correct

Is this situation the same as Ellis' misdemeanor before he was drafted? No. It's a felony - so if Goodell felt a suspension was warranted he'd simply cite this as a more serious crime.

Incorrect. This is the same situation as the Ellis case.

Deus seems to want to make the point that if they do fine or suspend Dennard the NFLPA will appeal. While I believe they would likely win, the NFLPA appeals sanctions all the time - and that doesn't mean Goodell has no authority.

My point was pretty obvious. You made an incorrect statement about a significant issue, and I pointed it out.

If the NFL says they have the authority - and they have - then they do. That doesn't make it right - but since when has Goodell cared about that?

Since the law exists and he has to follow it, just as he is bound by the CBA. Did you not see what happened with the Saints bounty case? The NFL doesn't get to rule based upon what it feels like ruling upon.

While Goodell could assert that he feels a felony warrants NFL action above and beyond the criminal sentence, I think that the relatively light sentence sends him a message that the justice system looks at Dennard as a good kid who simply made a hot headed mistake.

Goodell can "feel" whatever the hell he wants. It's what he can actually do about those feelings that counts. Despite your claim to the contrary,

...They've already stated that they will review his felony conviction - so any argument that the NFL has no standing to further discipline is already out the window...

Is simply not correct.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Re: Dennard Sentence

Terrell Pryor's situation was totally different. And this was brought up numerous times. The reason that Goodell "suspended" Pryor the 5 games is because that is what the NCAA had suspended Pryor for. And, in the spirit of good faith and not wanting 3rd year and older College players to jump to the NFL thinking they could dodge NCAA punishments, Goodell set the precedent that he would uphold any NCAA punishments that were given.

In Dennard's case, there was no NCAA punishment. Dennard was also not a member of the NFL at the time. The NFLPA has already said that Goodell has no grounds to punish Dennard since he was not under contract nor had been drafted.

Dennard's case more closely resembles the case of Kendrick Ellis who didn't receive any suspension from the NFL despite pleading guilty and receiving a 45 day jail sentence.

Well, thanks for illustrating aptly that people are missing the point.

Yes, Pryor's case is different. As I said.

And unfortunately, Dennard's case is also different from Ellis' - it's felony - not a misdemeanor.

None of that changes the fact that the NFL has stated they will review Dennard's felony conviction.

The NFL will review the incident involving Dennard, but no decision has been made yet as to whether the league will discipline him, NFL.com's Ian Rapoport reported Thursday. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap10...onzo-dennard-sentenced-to-jail-time-probation

I don't like it any more than you do - but no argument about Pryor or Ellis changes the fact that the NFL is, in fact, reviewing the Dennard case for potential NFL discipline.

The NFL will review the court record, and a league spokesman told the Herald no determination has been made on any potential discipline.

We can all agree that the NFL shouldn't have any authority to impose more sanctions until we're blue in the face - but unfortunately Goodell clearly does not agree with that assessment.

 

[DaBruinz]

Ok - We are so glad that you think you know what you are talking about then.

While they have "standing" to investigate the charges, they have no standing to actually suspend Dennard. In fact, they set precedent that Dennard wouldn't be suspended.. Not only that, the NFLPA has already challenged the idea that they even have "standing " to investigate it since Dennard wasn't with the NFL at the time.

Helps for you to understand what is going on.

 

[DaBruinz]

ARTICLE 46 - COMMISSIONER DISCIPLINE
Section 1. League Discipline: Notwithstanding anything stated in Article 43:

(a) All disputes involving a fine or suspension imposed upon a player for conduct on the playing field (other than as described in Subsection (b) below) or involving action taken against a player by the Commissioner for conduct detrimental to the integrity of, or public confidence in, the game of professional football, will be processed exclusively as follows: the Commissioner will promptly send written notice of his action to the player, with a copy to the NFLPA. Within three (3) business days following such written notification, the player affected thereby, or the NFLPA with the player’s approval, may appeal in writing to the Commissioner.

This is the jurisdiction with the CBA for the Commissioner to review and to subscribe to the power within Section I of Article 46.

And unlike the New Orleans Saints disaster, there is a public record regarding the Dennard incident, as a member of the NFLPA and the New England Patriots, while Dennard was in the league.

Umm.. The public record is for an incident that occurred while Dennard was not a member of the NFLPA or the New England Patriots. The TIME of incident is what matters. Not the time of the public record.

 

[JoeSixPat]

That wasn't under the personal conduct policy. That was for trying to circumvent the rules of the CBA, and it was a deal that Pryor was willing to enter into.



I think they'll "review" the case just as they do all incidents. In this particular case, unless Goodell wants to risk another beat down in court, the review will start, and end, with "Can we do anything here? No? Ok, we reviewed it." If Goodell tries to push it further than that, this will become an arbitration/court case. You're acting as if the mere act of reviewing something gives Goodell authority to act. It doesn't.



Correct



Incorrect. This is the same situation as the Ellis case.



My point was pretty obvious. You made an incorrect statement about a significant issue, and I pointed it out.



Since the law exists and he has to follow it, just as he is bound by the CBA. Did you not see what happened with the Saints bounty case? The NFL doesn't get to rule based upon what it feels like ruling upon.



Goodell can "feel" whatever the hell he wants. It's what he can actually do about those feelings that counts. Despite your claim to the contrary,



Is simply not correct.

Again, thanks for illustrating my point about people missing the point.

Also, hate to break it to you, but NFL rules regarding the conduct policy are not "the law"

They're rules - part of a collective bargaining agreement - and I can tell you first hand, CBAs are ALWAYS subject to interpretation.

And while the NFLPA can appeal Goodell's interpretation of the rules, that doesn't mean Goodell can't attempt to impose fines and suspensions. They've clearly stated that they will consider "further discipline."

And no, once again, sorry to inform you that Ellis' situation was a misdemeanor - not a felony. Check the facts before you get too pompous in the future.

Kenrick Ellis agrees to misdemeanor assault and battery plea | ProFootballTalk

 

[JoeSixPat]

Umm.. The public record is for an incident that occurred while Dennard was not a member of the NFLPA or the New England Patriots. The TIME of incident is what matters. Not the time of the public record.

Umm - care to share your theory as to why the NFL is "reviewing the record" and has informed reporters that "no decision on further discipline" has been reached - if in fact they believe they are unable to "consider further discipline"?

The NFL will review the incident involving Dennard, but no decision has been made yet as to whether the league will discipline him, NFL.com's Ian Rapoport reported Thursday.

Do you think that the NFL is unaware of the TIME of the incident without reviewing the court transcripts?

 

[DaBruinz]

He didn't need to be a signatory to the agreement when the incident occurred because the incident was followed by a public prosecution while he was in the league which resulted in a public conviction.

You are 100% wrong. When the prosecution took place doesn't matter. What matters is the incident.

The moment Dennard entered into the league and had a public conviction that resulted in a felony while he was in the league, the conviction becomes the motivating factor under the "conduct detrimental to the league" language, in addition to the underlying offense because the underlying offense that led to the public conviction is linked.

Clearly spoken by someone who has no clue what the "conduct detrimental to the league" language actually pertains to.

Now - had Dennard been found innocent, the Commissioner's Authority would have become moot because Dennard would have proven that he had not conducted himself as a detriment to the league.

You clearly don't understand the law nor do you understand contracts. Please stop spouting.

 

[Deus Irae]

Again, thanks for illustrating my point about people missing the point.

Also, hate to break it to you, but NFL rules are not "the law"

They're rules.

And while the NFLPA can appeal Goodell's interpretation of the rules, that doesn't mean Goodell can't attempt to impose fines and suspensions.

And no, once again, sorry to inform you that Ellis' situation was a misdemeanor - not a felony. Check the facts before you get too pompous in the future.

Kenrick Ellis agrees to misdemeanor assault and battery plea | ProFootballTalk

I didn't miss the point at all. You're just posting falsehoods. It's really that simple. What the NFL attempts to do is not the issue. What they can actually do is the issue. Your statement

They've already stated that they will review his felony conviction - so any argument that the NFL has no standing to further discipline is already out the window...

was wrong, and clearly so. You either had no idea what the hell you were talking about, or you're another one who can't put pen to paper in a manner that accurately conveys his point.

Also, the felony/misdemeanor issue is irrelevant. What's relevant is the time of the occurence. I'm amused that your arrogant ass dares to call anyone else pompous, though, so that was worth the read.

 

[DaBruinz]

I don't know enough about the Kendrick Ellis situation and what he did. What I do know is that the NFL is going to frown upon players in the NFL to hit a cop. And btw - not for nothing but had Dennard done this when he was a junior at Nebraska then he probably would have been kicked off of the team regardless of how good he was in Lincoln. Either that or the team or Big 10 would have suspended him.

You truly don't know what you are talking about. Had this occurred when Dennard was a junior, he wouldn't have been suspended or kicked off the team. Just ask Kendrick Ellis who wasn't suspended or kicked of the team while attending Hampton even though he was facing felony assault charges, as a junior.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I didn't miss the point at all. You're just posting falsehoods. It's really that simple. What the NFL attempts to do is not the issue. What they can actually do is the issue. Your statement



was wrong, and clearly so. You either had no idea what the hell you were talking about, or you're another one who can't put pen to paper in a manner that accurately conveys his point.

Also, the felony/misdemeanor issue is irrelevant. What's relevant is the time of the occurence. I'm amused that your arrogant ass dares to call anyone else pompous, though, so that was worth the read.

Man - you really HATE being wrong don't you.

You stated the Ellis and Dennard situation were the same.

I provided proof that one was a misdemeanor and one is a felony.

Now you're trying to squirm out of that one saying that the misdemeanor/felony situation is irrelevant. :singing:

Look - I agree with you. Further action by Goodell is unwarranted. Goodell should have no standing in this situation.

The only one who doesn't agree with us is Goodell - and if you don't think a lawyer like Goodell would assert that there is a difference between a felony and a misdemeanor then there's little hope for you.

The fact is that the NFL is reviewing the Dennard case and that they ARE considering further discipline but they have as of yet made no decision.

Sorry - that's a fact. I don't like it any more than you, but it's kindof tough to ignore reality.

 

[DaBruinz]

NFL Communications - CBA «

So you give a link to a link and think that it supports your claims? I have news for you, it doesn't.

http://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/collective-bargaining-agreement-2011-2020.pdf

The PREAMBLE of the CBA actually over-rules your claims that Goodell has the right to punish Dennard. Otherwise, you could claim that Danny Amendola could be suspended because his father is suing the Cowboys because of a Golf Cart mishap... Sine Amendola is involved in that and it is detrimental to the league to have that in court...

 

[DaBruinz]

Man - you really HATE being wrong don't you.

You stated the Ellis and Dennard situation were the same.

I provided proof that one was a misdemeanor and one is a felony.

Now you're trying to squirm out of that one saying that the misdemeanor/felony situation is irrelevant. :singing:

Look - I agree with you. Further action by Goodell is unwarranted. Goodell should have no standing in this situation.

The only one who doesn't agree with us is Goodell - and if you don't think a lawyer like Goodell would assert that there is a difference between a felony and a misdemeanor then there's little hope for you.

The fact is that the NFL is reviewing the Dennard case and that they ARE considering further discipline but they have as of yet made no decision.

Sorry - that's a fact. I don't like it any more than you, but it's kindof tough to ignore reality.

It was only a misdemeanor for Ellis because he pled down the Felony charge. Something that the cop in the Dennard case refused to sign off on.

 

[Frezo]

Just to clarify a point, Goodell was never a lawyer. His degree in in economics.

Roger Goodell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[JoeSixPat]

It was only a misdemeanor for Ellis because he pled down the Felony charge. Something that the cop in the Dennard case refused to sign off on.

YES! Thank you.

Don't try telling that to Deus though!

Now, if you can find a lawyer to convince Goodell (also a lawyer) that there's no difference between a felony and a misdemeanor, then we're golden!

 

[DaBruinz]

Umm - care to share your theory as to why the NFL is "reviewing the record" and has informed reporters that "no decision on further discipline" has been reached - if in fact they believe they are unable to "consider further discipline"?

Because Goodell is a pompous ass and thinks that he has authority over situations that occurred outside of the league perview. When, in fact, he doesn't.

Do you think that the NFL is unaware of the TIME of the incident without reviewing the court transcripts?

As someone else pointed out, the Personal Conduct Policy only applies to people when they are IN THE LEAGUE. So, the league "looking into it" is just posturing by the league. They KNOW they have no leg to stand on and they know that they would be tied up in court if they attempted to suspend Dennard. Furthermore, the league trying to suspend Dennard could be constituted as a violation of the CBA and render it void. Something that the league doesn't want to happen.

 

[Deus Irae]

Man - you really HATE being wrong don't you.

You stated the Ellis and Dennard situation were the same.

I provided proof that one was a misdemeanor and one is a felony.

Now you're trying to squirm out of that one saying that the misdemeanor/felony situation is irrelevant. :singing:

I'm not wrong. The issue at hand is jurisdiction. For the issue at hand, felony/misdemeanor is irrelevant. What's relevant is the time of the incident. They are the same, in that both happened prior to the player being drafted. Quit clowning yourself.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Just to clarify a point, Goodell was never a lawyer. His degree in in economics.

Roger Goodell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hah! How about that.

Funny I've seen him referred to as having a law degree elsewhere.

That's actually kindof appalling that he has no more than a B.A. given all the implications of the CBA, player discipline etc.

 

[DaBruinz]

YES! Thank you.

Don't try telling that to Deus though!

Now, if you can find a lawyer to convince Goodell (also a lawyer) that there's no difference between a felony and a misdemeanor, then we're golden!

Pleading down from a felony to a misdemeanor doesn't make the situation different. If you think the league would ignore the original charges, then you are fooling yourself.

 

[JoeSixPat]

I'm not wrong. The issue at hand is jurisdiction. For the issue at hand, felony/misdemeanor is irrelevant. What's relevant is the time of the incident. They are the same, in that both happened prior to the player being drafted. Quit clowning yourself.

So tell me - why is the NFL reviewing the Dennard situation and is "considering further discipline" if they don't believe they have jurisdiction and can't consider further discipline?

 

[JoeSixPat]

Pleading down from a felony to a misdemeanor doesn't make the situation different. If you think the league would ignore the original charges, then you are fooling yourself.

And if you think the league would ignore the ACTUAL charges and ACTUAL CONVICTIONS, then you're fooling yourself.

I've got news for you - people are charged with things all the time.

It's the convictions that count.