Hernandez full participant at Wed practice; Gregory, White, Edleman, Hoomanawanui DNP

[Metaphors]

Re: hernandez practices

I bet we see AH again vs the Jets but not this week. Wouldn't be surprised if they don't want his ankle in the air for 11 hours.

Unless his ankle is 100%, I would agree. I don't see Hernandez as the difference-maker against Seattle. A healthy Hernandez is an absolute killer against the Jets.

 

[jmt57]

Re: Hernandez full participant at Wed practice; Gregory, White, Edleman, Hoomanawanui

Pats with their weekly due diligence, working out a few more players. Focus seems to be on potential special teams players.

Source: Naanee, Bowman work out - New England Patriots Blog - espnBoston

The Patriots recently worked out wide receiver Legedu Naanee, cornerback Zack Bowman, and three other players, according to a league source.

Naane, recently released by the Dolphins after struggles on offense, is regarded as a capable special teams player with very good versatility. Drafted in 2007 by the Chargers out of Boise State, he has played in 69 career games, with 108 catches, 1,232 yards, and four touchdowns. He signed with the Dolphins this offseason after spending 2011 with the Carolina Panthers.

Bowman played in every game for the Bears in 2011, finishing with 15 tackles and one fumble recovery. He's started 16 games in his four-year NFL career, all of which came with the Chicago Bears, who drafted him in the fifth round in 2008 out of Nebraska. He signed with the Minnesota Vikings in March of 2012, but was released prior to the start of the regular season. His best season as a pro came in 2009, when he finished with 66 tackles and six interceptions.

In addition to Naanee and Bowman, the Patriots also worked out running back Lennon Creer, a 2012 undrafted free agent who spent time with the Redskins this past offseason, running back DuJuan Harris, a running back out of Troy who was waived by the Steelers on August 31, and offensive lineman Nyere Aumitare (Iowa).​

 

[patsfaninpa]

Re: hernandez practices

Unless his ankle is 100%, I would agree. I don't see Hernandez as the difference-maker against Seattle. A healthy Hernandez is an absolute killer against the Jets.

I feel 180 degrees the other way. Without Revis, Seattle clearly has a better defense than the Jesters. We're on the road. This game is no gimme. The Jets come to Foxboro without Revis and Santonio Holmes. Who knows if Keller is back. We should be able to beat them with Don Hasslebeck at TE.

 

[Mack Herron]

Re: Hernandez full participant at Wed practice; Gregory, White, Edleman, Hoomanawanui

Did Not Practice

Julian Edelman (hand)

Steve Gregory (hip)

Michael Hoomanawanui (concussion)

Tracy White (foot)



Limited Participation

RB Brandon Bolden (knee)

QB Tom Brady (right shoulder)

DE Brandon Deaderick (ankle)

DT Justin Francis (ankle)

TE Ron Gronkowski (hip)

TE Aaron Hernandez (ankle)

LB Dont'a Hightower (hamstring)

G Logan Mankins (calf/hip)

OL Nick McDonald (shoulder)

CB Sterling Moore (knee)

RB Shane Vereen (foot)

OT Sebastian Vollmer (back/knee)

WR Wes Welker (ankle)



Full Participation

DT Kyle Love (knee)

Brady, Welker, Gronk all limited for Patriots

 

[Patjew]

Re: Hernandez full participant at Wed practice; Gregory, White, Edleman, Hoomanawanui

Brady, Welker, Gronk all limited for Patriots

Ewww, that's alot less nice.

 

[DocHoliday]

Re: Hernandez full participant at Wed practice; Gregory, White, Edleman, Hoomanawanui

Random question - has a backup QB ever been used in special teams?

I'm talking the third stringers. Aside from Tebow.

 

[mgteich]

Re: hernandez practices

EDELMAN is almost irrelevant. He should be in on almost always when we play 3 WR's, and almost never when we play 1 or 2 WR sets. He would share the #3 WR spot with Branch, presumably getting almost all the reps himself. We ran 3 WR sets 62% of the time (58 times) last week. This should not affect the use of Welker at all.

The availability of HERNANDEZ in another issue entirely. Let's we flipped the offense and ran 2 WR, 2 TE 60% of the time and 3 WR, 1 TE 40% of the time. Then Hernandez would be expect to play on 60% of the reps or 56 reps last week.

QUESTION 1 and 2
Is 40% of the reps sufficient for Edelman and Branch? Is 40% enough to run the 3 WR offense. I certainly think "yes" to both questions.

QUESTION 3
Is 60% of the reps reasonable for Hernandez and 100% for Welker, 100% for Lloyd?
==========

300% is the number to allocate
Gronkowski
Hernandez/Fells
Welker
Edelman/Branch

This week the answer was essentially, 100%, 40%, 100% and 60%.

What is your answer when Hernandez and Edelman are both available? Or even when Hernandez comes back. If Hernandez is get more than 60% of the reps, either we run the 2 TE, 2 WR set more than 60% of the time, or Welker, Gronk or Lloyd has reduced reps.
==============================
For simplicity we can ignore the few 3 TE plays.

I'm with you on this, which is it's going to be interesting to follow the reintegration of Hernandez and Edelman. Branch, McDonald and Fells together had just 100 snaps last week (Could have been a 282 total). In and of itself, that's not a big deal, but it's basically a full game. If that puts Hernandez in for the 94, we're looking at 6 snaps for the TE3/WR3, and I think that means that

Lloyd (91)
Gronk (94)
Welker (87)
RBs (93)

are going to have to give up snaps if the team is going to bring those players into active roles. That's even if you basically zero out Fells and Branch. It's something I think is well worth following.

It should be fun seeing if they can put an already powerful offense into hyperdrive.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: hernandez practices

I'm the opposite of upset about it. Every snap that Welker takes instead of Edelman makes the offense significantly better.

Of course Welker never sat in favor of Edelman, so its pretty irrelevant.

 

[DaBronxPats14]

Re: hernandez practices

I feel 180 degrees the other way. Without Revis, Seattle clearly has a better defense than the Jesters. We're on the road. This game is no gimme. The Jets come to Foxboro without Revis and Santonio Holmes. Who knows if Keller is back. We should be able to beat them with Don Hasslebeck at TE.

Agreed, If AHern has a green light and ready to go he will be a HUGE Vs Seahawks. Jets are having their problems and their ripe for'da pickin. No-Huddle and a BIG lead I don't see Sanchez bringin them back.

 

[DaBronxPats14]

Re: Hernandez full participant at Wed practice; Gregory, White, Edleman, Hoomanawanui

Welker should have his starting spot back and BB shouldn't tinker with it. It's like a well oiled machine when WW is in. At this point Edelman should give WW a breather or a set play here & there for him but stop messin with Welker and let him & Brady do their thing.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Re: Hernandez full participant at Wed practice; Gregory, White, Edleman, Hoomanawanui

I don't suppose there's much to be done about people who rush to post "news" without giving links that then turns out to be false (*sigh* welcome to the internet *sigh*) but, mods, could you please, at least, change the header?

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: hernandez practices

EDELMAN is almost irrelevant. He should be in on almost always when we play 3 WR's, and almost never when we play 1 or 2 WR sets. He would share the #3 WR spot with Branch, presumably getting almost all the reps himself. We ran 3 WR sets 62% of the time (58 times) last week. This should not affect the use of Welker at all.

I agree with you on the use of should. Edelman and Branch should be WR3/WR4, and should be in on 3WR/4WR sets. However, given that Edelman had 23 snaps against the Titans and Welker was, as a result, limited to 43, I can't agree with you on the use of is almost irrelevant. To me, seeing Welker get cut into to the tune of some 24 snaps makes the Edelman situation very relevant. No matter how many times people here try to claim Edelman didn't take snaps from Welker, it's clear he did, and it was something deliberate by the Patriots, as is easy to deduce just by listening to McDaniels.

The availability of HERNANDEZ in another issue entirely. Let's we flipped the offense and ran 2 WR, 2 TE 60% of the time and 3 WR, 1 TE 40% of the time. Then Hernandez would be expect to play on 60% of the reps or 56 reps last week.

QUESTION 1 and 2
Is 40% of the reps sufficient for Edelman and Branch? Is 40% enough to run the 3 WR offense. I certainly think "yes" to both questions.

QUESTION 3
Is 60% of the reps reasonable for Hernandez and 100% for Welker, 100% for Lloyd?
==========

300% is the number to allocate
Gronkowski
Hernandez/Fells
Welker
Edelman/Branch

This week the answer was essentially, 100%, 40%, 100% and 60%.

What is your answer when Hernandez and Edelman are both available? Or even when Hernandez comes back. If Hernandez is get more than 60% of the reps, either we run the 2 TE, 2 WR set more than 60% of the time, or Welker, Gronk or Lloyd has reduced reps.
==============================
For simplicity we can ignore the few 3 TE plays.

Ok, using your 60/40 numbers, we start with 400% for the 4 spots

Lloyd - 90
Gronk - 90
Welker - 90
Hernandez - 90
Edelman/Branch/Fells - 40
RB - 100

I don't see why that, +/- a percentage point or two, would be a problem to achieve, but that would cut into Edelman's snap percentage (which is fine with me). Obviously, as you said, we ignored the 3TE sets, and we also ignored any 4WR sets. There's no need for Lloyd, Hernandez or Gronk to be playing 100% of the snaps.

Even if you wanted to cut Welker a bit more, down to say 85%, in order to keep Gronk up at 95%, there's still a long way to go before he's down to the ridiculous 64% he got in that Titans game, or even the 77% in the Cardinals game.

 

[supafly]

Re: Hernandez full participant at Wed practice; Gregory, White, Edleman, Hoomanawanui

Welker should have his starting spot back and BB shouldn't tinker with it. It's like a well oiled machine when WW is in. At this point Edelman should give WW a breather or a set play here & there for him but stop messin with Welker and let him & Brady do their thing.

Obviously, I agree with you 100%..BUT there are many things to consider when looking back on the split between Edelman/Welker in the first 2 games. I do not agree that Welker "lost his starting job" at any point of the season at all:

1. There were rumors that Welker had a concussion vs Tampa back in the 3rd preseason game, so bringing him back slowly may have been the plan

2. Considering that he gets lit up so many times throughout each game, the focus may have been limiting those reps early on, so that he can be more effective down the road when the games matter more, particularly the playoffs. Games #1 and #2 vs TEN and ARZ may have been as good as any to see the chemistry that Brady now has with Edelman, to properly assess Edelman, and to give Welker a bit of a breather at times. At any rate, the rep numbers show that although Edelman may have had more total reps than Welker, they weren't that far apart anyway.

3. #2 can also go hand in hand with seeing exactly how much progress Edelman made at the actual position of WR. Edelman had a very, very solid camp, that was obvious. He also worked a lot in the offseason with Brady out in California. I don't blame Belichick one bit for wanting to give him a longer look. That may have gone hand in hand with splitting some time with Welker

4. They may have ideas (they probably do at least have "ideas") that Edelman may be able to do about 2/3rds of what Welker does at a lot less of a cost. Since the only way to see if that's true or not is to give him some more playing time, it's not a stretch to wonder if they mean to give him some more looks throughout this season; especially in Edelman's contract year, not to mention Welker's situation

5. Although I think this is the most unlikely of scenarios myself, it really could have been more gameplan oriented, depending upon how Belichick and the coaches viewed the more physical defensive styles of the Titans and Cardinals

 

[supafly]

Re: hernandez practices

there's still a long way to go before he's down to the ridiculous 64% he got in that Titans game, or even the 77% in the Cardinals game.

It's crazy the amount of publicity that 77% got. That's still very close to 4 out of every 5 snaps.

I'd personally have no problem at all giving Welker 4 out of every 5 snaps if it meant that it may lessen the chances of him getting blown up so often, and that he would raise his chances of being more effective and healthy in the later games of the year. As long as it doesn't tip any tendencies off, then I'd have no problem with it. It will be interesting to see what the plan is moving forward once Hernandez returns, not to mention Edelman too. There's a possibility that it may go back down to a percentage in the early 80s, late 70s.

I agree that the first game of 64% was too few. We'll never know the real reason(s) that possibly could have been behind that decision, but I do not want to see it again.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: hernandez practices

It's crazy the amount of publicity that 77% got. That's still very close to 4 out of every 5 snaps.

I'd personally have no problem at all giving Welker 4 out of every 5 snaps if it meant that it may lessen the chances of him getting blown up so often, and that he would raise his chances of being more effective and healthy in the later games of the year. As long as it doesn't tip any tendencies off, then I'd have no problem with it. It will be interesting to see what the plan is moving forward once Hernandez returns, not to mention Edelman too. There's a possibility that it may go back down to a percentage in the early 80s, late 70s.

I agree that the first game of 64% was too few. We'll never know the real reason(s) that possibly could have been behind that decision, but I do not want to see it again.

The 77% was significant because it followed the 64%, and because it happened even with Hernandez gone due to injury. It was a window into the team's thinking going into the game. If the game plan led to Welker playing 77% without Hernandez in there (Hernandez played his 3 pre-injury snaps, uh oh! played 20 snaps and Edelman played a whopping 75 of the 82), it's very likely that Welker's snap count percentage was going to be down in the 60's again.

Just as significantly, Welker was running the decoy routes until late in the first half, while Edelman was running the old Welker routes.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Re: Hernandez full participant at Wed practice; Gregory, White, Edleman, Hoomanawanui

Love to hear that Hernandez looks to be on track for return by the Seattle game. We are going to need him. AH is such a versatile weapon. It's also amazing to note that the Pats have scored 52 and 31 points without him respectively. So the offense has stepped up in his absence. It can only get better once AH returns.

Good news that Vollmer and Mankins are back too. Will the Pats start to average over 35 ppg from here on out? Hmmmmm.

 

[ATippett56]

Re: Hernandez full participant at Wed practice; Gregory, White, Edleman, Hoomanawanui

Welker, Brady among 13 limited in practice - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Oct 10 7:29PM ET By Mike Rodak | ESPNBoston.com

FOXBOROUGH, Mass. -- New England Patriots wide receiver Wes Welker was among 13 players limited in practice on Wednesday, according to the team's injury report. Welker is listed with an ankle injury.

Quarterback Tom Brady returned to the injury report as limited with a right shoulder injury, after being removed from last Friday's report.

Offensive tackle Sebastian Vollmer, who left Sunday's game with a knee injury, was listed as limited with the knee injury, as well as a previous back injury.

Linebacker Tracy White (foot) did not practice, after leaving Sunday's game. Receiver Julian Edelman (hand), safety Steve Gregory (hip), and tight end Michael Hoomanawanui (concussion) also did not practice.

 

[DaBronxPats14]

Re: Hernandez full participant at Wed practice; Gregory, White, Edleman, Hoomanawanui

Obviously, I agree with you 100%..BUT there are many things to consider when looking back on the split between Edelman/Welker in the first 2 games. I do not agree that Welker "lost his starting job" at any point of the season at all:

1. There were rumors that Welker had a concussion vs Tampa back in the 3rd preseason game, so bringing him back slowly may have been the plan

2. Considering that he gets lit up so many times throughout each game, the focus may have been limiting those reps early on, so that he can be more effective down the road when the games matter more, particularly the playoffs. Games #1 and #2 vs TEN and ARZ may have been as good as any to see the chemistry that Brady now has with Edelman, to properly assess Edelman, and to give Welker a bit of a breather at times. At any rate, the rep numbers show that although Edelman may have had more total reps than Welker, they weren't that far apart anyway.

3. #2 can also go hand in hand with seeing exactly how much progress Edelman made at the actual position of WR. Edelman had a very, very solid camp, that was obvious. He also worked a lot in the offseason with Brady out in California. I don't blame Belichick one bit for wanting to give him a longer look. That may have gone hand in hand with splitting some time with Welker

4. They may have ideas (they probably do at least have "ideas") that Edelman may be able to do about 2/3rds of what Welker does at a lot less of a cost. Since the only way to see if that's true or not is to give him some more playing time, it's not a stretch to wonder if they mean to give him some more looks throughout this season; especially in Edelman's contract year, not to mention Welker's situation

5. Although I think this is the most unlikely of scenarios myself, it really could have been more gameplan oriented, depending upon how Belichick and the coaches viewed the more physical defensive styles of the Titans and Cardinals

Good points, I agree I never thought WW lost his starting job, just Edelman gettin more reps over WW was something BB incorperated into his Offense stating he had a good camp and made strides. WW is clearly better choice over JE for majority of snaps and especially in key situations.

 

[nekromantique]

Re: Hernandez full participant at Wed practice; Gregory, White, Edleman, Hoomanawanui

if ahern does play, i wouldnt expect it to be too much in the hawks game. no matter the position the pats are in, i dont see them pushing the ankle too much. he'll play the typical 3TE sets, but i dont see much more than that.

fells will probably see more snaps in the 2TE sets than Ahern due to his blocking skills (he didnt look great against denver, but overall fells is a very good blocking TE) free up gronk a bit, though i think gronk will stay home to block alot still. Hernandez may come in in the FB role so connolly doesnt have to.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Re: Hernandez full participant at Wed practice; Gregory, White, Edleman, Hoomanawanui

You'll know when Edelman is back in the lineup, as the offense will sputter and everyone will point fingers at Brady and McD.

Without WW they are a very good offense.

With WW they are trancedent.