Randy Moss unretired (merged)

[Rob0729]

Nothing concrete honestly, but there usually isn't when it comes to patriot rumors. People thought we had interest in ocho prior but they were rumors until it happened. Andy Reid is a lot like BB in that regard as well, he hates talking to the media.

I just believe where there is smoke there is fire. When moss left initially it wasn't because of the pats not wanting him it was because he was giving signs that he was going to implode with the contract thing and the obvious issues with BOB.

People are blaming O'Brien for some perceived problem that is made up. Moss' "issue with BOB" was that the Pats decided to phase Moss out of the offense. It is doubtful that O'Brien made that decision alone without the blessing of Belichick and possibly Brady too.

So it seems pretty clear that Belichick didn't want Moss as a part of the offense, but people think two years later and Moss being 35 that he has changed his mind? Maybe if Belichick steps down, that will clear up the little issue Moss has with the organization.

It is clear it wasn't the Pats didn't want him, they just didn't want him to get the ball.

Again, the blow up with O'Brien was because the Patriots decided not to throw the ball Moss' way. That was most likely a joint decision by Belichick, O'Brien, and Brady. Yet, fans want to blame O'Brien for the rift.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

Yeah, if the Patriots offered Moss any type of deal, he would have jumped at it. The guy has done everything over the last year other than camp in Belichick's parking space to petition them to re-sign him. If the Pats offered Moss a ball boy position last year, he would have probably accepted it without even thinking it through.

I just don't buy the rumors that the Pats offered Moss anything. It was probably just his agent trying to generate interest in Moss.

Why? You don't remember his press conference? He was B*tching about the contract not being for multiple years. Why would it be difficult to believe he didn't want to play on a one year deal.

I don't think his agent did that considering it doesn't seem like Randy consults the guy much about his intentions. Why would you float false rumors to generate interest in a dude who hadn't even shown that he wanted to play football at that point.

 

[Rob0729]

Didn't answer the question. What is the penalty (if any) if an agent makes false claims about a player being offered a contract?

The only penalty I can think of is that he proves the stereotype that agents are lying scumbags that will say anything to get money for their clients.

In fact, since the Pats never talk about contract negotiations, they are constantly pointed to by agents either directly or as anonymous sources that the Pats are interested in one of their clients. Virtually ever big name free agent has the Pats' name pop up into the discussion if they aren't signed quickly. The Pats rarely if ever sign them, but never refute the claims because they have a strict policy of not talking about that stuff.

 

[Rob0729]

Why? You don't remember his press conference? He was B*tching about the contract not being for multiple years. Why would it be difficult to believe he didn't want to play on a one year deal.

I don't think his agent did that considering it doesn't seem like Randy consults the guy much about his intentions. Why would you float false rumors to generate interest in a dude who hadn't even shown that he wanted to play football at that point.

That was a year later. So Moss sat out an entire year because he wanted at long term deal and not an one year deal. Yet a year later, he is ready to play under an one year deal even though he won't play under an one year deal.

Moss wanted to play football last year. He repeatedly said if the Pats came knocking, he would talk to them. Most of the local guys last year including people plugged into the Patriots like Mike Reiss all said the Pats had no interest in Moss last year.

Keep holding out hope for Moss to return. You will be as let down this year as you were last year. The Pats have no interest in him. They didn't last year. And they certainly won't want him another year older and missing an entire year of football.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

People are blaming O'Brien for some perceived problem that is made up. Moss' "issue with BOB" was that the Pats decided to phase Moss out of the offense. It is doubtful that O'Brien made that decision alone without the blessing of Belichick and possibly Brady too.

So it seems pretty clear that Belichick didn't want Moss as a part of the offense, but people think two years later and Moss being 35 that he has changed his mind? Maybe if Belichick steps down, that will clear up the little issue Moss has with the organization.

It is clear it wasn't the Pats didn't want him, they just didn't want him to get the ball.

Again, the blow up with O'Brien was because the Patriots decided not to throw the ball Moss' way. That was most likely a joint decision by Belichick, O'Brien, and Brady. Yet, fans want to blame O'Brien for the rift.

I missed the part where I "blamed" anyone. I said he had an issue with BOB. Fact. Hell, so did Brady at points this season. That stuff happens on a football team it's only more focused on when it's a star player especially one with Randy's baggage.

I don't think the decision to go back to the ball control offense was based solely on Randy like you make it seem. Moss seeing decreased snaps was a byproduct of the scheme change. I'm sure he wasn't thrilled, but ultimately he took himself out of NE and no one else. BB decided to play to the strength of his personnel. I don't blame him, we were heavily dependent on Randy in that offense. Why you are going out of your way to make it seem like Randy was the sole problem and not the fact that our offense was predictable is beyond me.

 

[Rob0729]

I missed the part where I "blamed" anyone. I said he had an issue with BOB. Fact. Hell, so did Brady at points this season. That stuff happens on a football team it's only more focused on when it's a star player especially one with Randy's baggage.

I don't think the decision to go back to the ball control offense was based solely on Randy like you make it seem. Moss seeing decreased snaps was a byproduct of the scheme change. I'm sure he wasn't thrilled, but ultimately he took himself out of NE and no one else. BB decided to play to the strength of his personnel. I don't blame him, we were heavily dependent on Randy in that offense. Why you are going out of your way to make it seem like Randy was the sole problem and not the fact that our offense was predictable is beyond me.

Moss' decreased snaps most likely had to do with the fact that Moss and Brady single handily lost the Jets game a week prior because Brady kept on forcing balls to Moss even though Cromartie was killing him on single coverage causing turnovers.

The scheme change was because Moss was not reliable anymore. They couldn't trust him to get open and win one on one battles. It wasn't because the Pats felt that they felt Moss was viable, but he didn't fit into their philosophy. The scheme change was because Moss was a bust in 2010.

They didn't have Branch on the roster yet and neither Gronk nor Hernandez had proven themselves as viable consistent targets. After the Miami game, Gronk had 6 catches for 62 yards and 2 TDs in four game. Hernandez did look like a viable target with 18 catches for 240 yards and no TDs in that time span. Neither looked like bonafide studs at that point.

Besides, the talk today is that the Pats need a deep threat WR. Also, the Pats tried to get OchoCinco to replace Moss in the outside/deep threat role. Why would they do either things if they changed philosophy.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

That was a year later. So Moss sat out an entire year because he wanted at long term deal and not an one year deal. Yet a year later, he is ready to play under an one year deal even though he won't play under an one year deal.

Moss wanted to play football last year. He repeatedly said if the Pats came knocking, he would talk to them. Most of the local guys last year including people plugged into the Patriots like Mike Reiss all said the Pats had no interest in Moss last year.

Keep holding out hope for Moss to return. You will be as let down this year as you were last year. The Pats have no interest in him. They didn't last year. And they certainly won't want him another year older and missing an entire year of football.

I'm sure Moss did have a change of heart at some point, to pretend you know when that actually happened would make you psychic. Right after the Moss said all those things in the presser he was effusive of his praise of BB and the organization, doesn't mean he wanted to play on a 1 year deal.

I would need a doctorate in Psychology to know how that guy thinks based off the random shyt he often does. I don't doubt the patriots putting it out there they had no interest. I also don't think it's impossible that the pats would've given randy a 1 year deal that would've cost them nothing. Reiss is plugged in but he also rarely goes against the grain, that is the very reason he is so plugged in. If BB wants to play something close to the vest that's where it stays.

 

[Rob0729]

I'm sure Moss did have a change of heart at some point, to pretend you know when that actually happened would make you psychic. Right after the Moss said all those things in the presser he was effusive of his praise of BB and the organization, doesn't mean he wanted to play on a 1 year deal.

I would need a doctorate in Psychology to know how that guy thinks based off the random shyt he often does. I don't doubt the patriots putting it out there they had no interest. I also don't think it's impossible that the pats would've given randy a 1 year deal that would've cost them nothing. Reiss is plugged in but he also rarely goes against the grain, that is the very reason he is so plugged in. If BB wants to play something close to the vest that's where it stays.

Anything is possible. But if the Pats really wanted Moss back, odds were that he would have come back. I mean he calls himself Bob Kraft's fifth son. I don't see any contract he would have turned down by the Patriots after he realized no one was going to give him the long term deal he wanted.

Moss fans just want to believe that there is a good possibility that he comes back and anything more than a guy who catches 2-3 balls a game. There is no real evidence that the Pats were or are interested in bringing Moss back. Odds are they have moved on. There might be a glimmer of hope that he comes back, but I seriously doubt it. He would have to come back as a back up and that usually means he has to play special teams.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

Moss' decreased snaps most likely had to do with the fact that Moss and Brady single handily lost the Jets game a week prior because Brady kept on forcing balls to Moss even though Cromartie was killing him on single coverage causing turnovers.

The scheme change was because Moss was not reliable anymore. They couldn't trust him to get open and win one on one battles. It wasn't because the Pats felt that they felt Moss was viable, but he didn't fit into their philosophy. The scheme change was because Moss was a bust in 2010.

I doubt that one player will cause BB to dump an entire scheme. Moss was decent in 2009 but not amazing why not do it then? The fact that we had 2 damn good TE's has nothing to do with it I guess.

Brady was making bad decisions as well. Was Randy also making the decision to throw it to covered WR's? Moss' snaps would and should decrease in our style of offense. We rarely go deep even if he came back in '07 form he wouldn't catch 23 TD's in this offense. BB rebuilt the offense around the TE's, welker and the short game. How are you making that solely about Moss' ability to get open in a few games.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

Anything is possible. But if the Pats really wanted Moss back, odds were that he would have come back. I mean he calls himself Bob Kraft's fifth son. I don't see any contract he would have turned down by the Patriots after he realized no one was going to give him the long term deal he wanted.

Moss fans just want to believe that there is a good possibility that he comes back and anything more than a guy who catches 2-3 balls a game. There is no real evidence that the Pats were or are interested in bringing Moss back. Odds are they have moved on. There might be a glimmer of hope that he comes back, but I seriously doubt it. He would have to come back as a back up and that usually means he has to play special teams.

I honestly don't think they bring him back and for the offense we have Reggie Wayne or B. Lloyd are better options. They would both be more useful in multiple facets unlike moss. But I don't think Moss is washed as he looked in those games with the vikes and titans. Call it a hunch, I am a Moss fan but I don't hope he comes back just for nostalgia. I only want who I think helps this team. This team needs help on the outside. Period. B. Lloyd looks unlikely considering his change in agents and he had to know that prior.

 

[BradyFixesEverything]

Randy Moss' idea of off-season training consists of Apple Jacks, Xbox 360, Netflix, and UFC on Pay-Per view...He's the first in line at Game Stop when the new Modern Warfare comes out.

DraftNasty.com :: DraftNasty Throwback: 'Moss feeling the heat'-Part One (Trailer)

The Moss Method (Excerpt from the Randy Moss documentary) - YouTube

Let's not let facts get in the way.

 

[Rob0729]

I doubt that one player will cause BB to dump an entire scheme. Moss was decent in 2009 but not amazing why not do it then? The fact that we had 2 damn good TE's has nothing to do with it I guess.

Brady was making bad decisions as well. Was Randy also making the decision to throw it to covered WR's? Moss' snaps would and should decrease in our style of offense. We rarely go deep even if he came back in '07 form he wouldn't catch 23 TD's in this offense. BB rebuilt the offense around the TE's, welker and the short game. How are you making that solely about Moss' ability to get open in a few games.

First, teams don't radically change offensive schemes mid-season unless they have to. The reason the Pats were changing the entire scheme was because they couldn't rely on Moss.

Second, Brady was making many of the same decisions he was making in 2007 and 2009, but the fact is those were only good decisions when Moss could win those battles and he couldn't anymore.

Third, I already pointed out that neither Gronk nor Hernandez were remotely the players they are today. Gronk didn't have a total of 100 yards in his first four games. Hernandez had one great game, a good one, and two so so games. Neither at that point were good enough for Belichick to decide to scrap their entire system to accomodate them. In fact, both were good in their rookie year, but neither were considered among the top TEs by the end of the 2010 season. No way does Belichick scrap an entire system to build the entire system around two rookies less than a month into their career. Never would happen in a million years.

Fourth, don't forget that Welker was still recovering from his ACL injury and was a shell of his former self at the time of the scheme change. No way would Belichick take away the emphasis of a scheme away from a healthy Moss and put it on a WR returning from an ACL injury in December of the previous year and two rookie TEs unless he had to.

 

[Rob0729]

I honestly don't think they bring him back and for the offense we have Reggie Wayne or B. Lloyd are better options. They would both be more useful in multiple facets unlike moss. But I don't think Moss is washed as he looked in those games with the vikes and titans. Call it a hunch, I am a Moss fan but I don't hope he comes back just for nostalgia. I only want who I think helps this team. This team needs help on the outside. Period. B. Lloyd looks unlikely considering his change in agents and he had to know that prior.

People need to stop this Lloyd isn't coming here because of Condon. The Pats tried to trade for Lloyd last year while Condon was still his agent. Lloyd just didn't want to sign a long term deal because he felt he would get a better deal this offseason. The Pats didn't want to trade for him without a long term deal.

 

[BradyFixesEverything]

Word was Brady lost confidence in Moss. That was the primary issue. If that is the case, he will be another Ochocinco. Brady won't throw to him if he is open or not. He is not coming back.

Brady didn't lose confidence per say, it's just that Moss stopped trying in practice which pissed off Brady. But Moss wasn't in the right frame of mind to practice hard unfortunately...he wanted the extension so bad that it completely ruined the season for him. He talked about it for MONTHS leading up to the season. He held a 20 minute press conference about it during the season... Dude is sensitive unfortunately. He might've been ok if BOB decided to feature him more, but that wasn't happening which pissed him off more because it was a contract year. He soon-after shut down mentally thanks to Chilly and Fisher.

Yes he has issues, but what's the harm in giving him a look in training camp if the money isn't unreasonable? They can always cut him again.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

They were just talking about him on NFL32. All of them said "you know he wants to go back to NE..but will NE take him"


Also..in his 2007 breakout year..we had mcdaniels as OC..just like we do now..if he is going to play anywhere this year..it will be the pats IMO

He wants a veteran proven QB..no rookie or a QB who turns it over 27 times..aka sanchez

 

[MoLewisrocks]

People need to stop this Lloyd isn't coming here because of Condon. The Pats tried to trade for Lloyd last year while Condon was still his agent. Lloyd just didn't want to sign a long term deal because he felt he would get a better deal this offseason. The Pats didn't want to trade for him without a long term deal.

David Dunn was his agent last year. He recently switched representation to Condon.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

First, teams don't radically change offensive schemes mid-season unless they have to. The reason the Pats were changing the entire scheme was because they couldn't rely on Moss.

Second, Brady was making many of the same decisions he was making in 2007 and 2009, but the fact is those were only good decisions when Moss could win those battles and he couldn't anymore.

Third, I already pointed out that neither Gronk nor Hernandez were remotely the players they are today. Gronk didn't have a total of 100 yards in his first four games. Hernandez had one great game, a good one, and two so so games. Neither at that point were good enough for Belichick to decide to scrap their entire system to accomodate them. In fact, both were good in their rookie year, but neither were considered among the top TEs by the end of the 2010 season. No way does Belichick scrap an entire system to build the entire system around two rookies less than a month into their career. Never would happen in a million years.

Fourth, don't forget that Welker was still recovering from his ACL injury and was a shell of his former self at the time of the scheme change. No way would Belichick take away the emphasis of a scheme away from a healthy Moss and put it on a WR returning from an ACL injury in December of the previous year and two rookie TEs unless he had to.

I think the scheme change started before mid-season though Rob. I thought the writing was on the wall when BB drafted back to back TE's in the draft. The 07-09 offenses rarely used the TE's. Gronk had 10 TD's in a 3 TE rotation and AH was considered the better of the duo at that time. I would argue being that heavily dependent on a 33 year old deep ball WR wasn't very smart If the entire offense really depended on Randy at that point in his career. I don't think BB would place all his eggs in one basket, especially the Randy Moss wicker variety. We will have to agree to disagree on that one.

I also don't think Brady is getting enough blame/credit tbh. His strength is putting the ball in tight windows and reading defenses. He doesn't extend plays as well post knee injury and he can do it but again I would rather not have Brady standing in there to chuck it down field every play. Brady was making poor decisions. No body gets open all the time. Cromartie was in Moss' pocket that whole game you were referring to earlier, Brady should've elected to go elsewhere. I think when BB saw that, he just didn't want the offense to be so one dimensional.

 

[BradyFixesEverything]

BTW, I seriously believe Randy Moss is the reason why Devin McCourty sucked this year.

I remember in 2010 McCourty kept talking about how HOFer Randy Moss was helping him so much, giving him tips and tricks and pointing things out. McCourty played against him and learned a lot. This offseason didn't happen due to the lockout and McCourty had training camp against much lower competition. He probably forgot a thing or two at the same time they had no legitimate deep threat this year, so McCourty couldn't really practice against those types of guys. When you practice against the best you get better.

 

[West Philly Patriot]

David Dunn was his agent last year. He recently switched representation to Condon.

Was just about to say this. Lloyd hiring this guy to me sends a clear message that he is going after the $$$ and following McD isn't a top priority. Condon was quoted at one point referring to the pats "We just pretend there are 31 teams in the NFL" Ouch.

I would be more shocked to see Lloyd sporting the Elvis than Randy. Reggie Wayne just got more interesting.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

People need to stop this Lloyd isn't coming here because of Condon. The Pats tried to trade for Lloyd last year while Condon was still his agent. Lloyd just didn't want to sign a long term deal because he felt he would get a better deal this offseason. The Pats didn't want to trade for him without a long term deal.

It's a pretty big deal as even Reiss puts it:

Scott, we know all about the connection between Lloyd and McDaniels (Lloyd played for McDaniels in both Denver and St. Louis). I think a player like Lloyd could be a solid addition. There are a couple of factors in play. Lloyd is currently represented by agent Tom Condon, whom the Patriots haven't consummated a contract with since a holdout situation with Benjamin Watson in 2004. I don't think that means it's necessarily a no-go, but it's a hurdle to overcome depending on what market develops for Lloyd and what he's looking for in his next deal. Also, if you're putting Wes Welker down for the $9.4 million franchise tag, how much more money can you realistically devote to the receiver position? It's something to keep in mind with all free-agent possibilities at receiver -- some asked about Vincent Jackson and he'd qualify here -- based on what market develops.

The more and more i read...the more i see even Randy Moss back here..before lloyd