Ranking the Patriots' Offseason Priorities

[IcyPatriot]

You must not have been watching any Patriots football this year.

You perhaps have not been paying attention to the last 5 drafts either ... or the FA market for that matter. Every year you guys post this stuff about pass rush ... perhaps it makes you feel better - I'm not sure.

 

[JackBauer]

You perhaps have not been paying attention to the last 5 drafts either ... or the FA market for that matter. Every year you guys post this stuff about pass rush ... perhaps it makes you feel better - I'm not sure.

I'm sure it's also a coincidence that the last time the Patriots won the Super Bowl, they had one of the better pass rushes in the league.

 

[alvinnf]

We need a stud DE.....
We need interior lineman....

Everything else is on the roster!

 

[Deus Irae]

You perhaps have not been paying attention to the last 5 drafts either ... or the FA market for that matter. Every year you guys post this stuff about pass rush ... perhaps it makes you feel better - I'm not sure.

You seem to have me mixed up with someone else. I used to defend the pass rush more than pretty much anyone. In fact, I was on board with it through 2007. Furthermore, the OLB problems were about more than just pass rush. Again, you pretty clearly weren't watching the team play this season, if you're rating CB and Safety as higher priorities than OLB, WR and RB.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm sure it's also a coincidence that the last time the Patriots won the Super Bowl, they had one of the better pass rushes in the league.

..... Sack rankings


2001: Patriots were 13th
2003: Patriots were 6th
2004: Patriots were 3rd
2007: Patriots were 2nd

2008: Patriots had fallen to 14th
2009: Patriots were 23rd
2010: Patriots were 14th again


But, somehow, the team no longer needs a pass rush.

 

[IcyPatriot]

I'm sure it's also a coincidence that the last time the Patriots won the Super Bowl, they had one of the better pass rushes in the league.

If Bill saw it that way he would have drafted a top flight OLB by now. But perhaps you forget that most of our pass rush back then came from secondary blitzes - Ty Law and Rodney Harrison. Another CB and S and he's right back to those days and with a stout line he also shuts down the run.

DE who can seal the edge

CB to play alongside mcCourty

S to use in nickel and dime situations as a cover or run defender

Bill is right back to the glory days of 3 SB championships.

2001: Hamilton 7 sacks - Pleasant 6 sacks - mcGinest 6 sacks

2003: Vrabel 9.5 sacks - Seymour 8 sacks - McGinest 5.5 sacks

2004: McGinest 9.5 sacks - Vrabel 5.5 sacks - Colvin and Seymour 5 sacks.

Colvin is the closest of all those players to being a traditional rushing OLB.

Belichick needs an edge setting DE who can rush and another CB who can give the line time to get there. many of our sacks were coverage sacks back then.

 

[Deus Irae]

If Bill saw it that way he would have drafted a top flight OLB by now. But perhaps you forget that most of our pass rush back then came from secondary blitzes - Ty Law and Rodney Harrison. Another CB and S and he's right back to those days and with a stout line he also shuts down the run.

DE who can seal the edge

CB to play alongside mcCourty

S to use in nickel and dime situations as a cover or run defender

Bill is right back to the glory days of 3 SB championships.

2001: Hamilton 7 sacks - Pleasant 6 sacks - mcGinest 6 sacks

2003: Vrabel 9.5 sacks - Seymour 8 sacks - McGinest 5.5 sacks

2004: McGinest 9.5 sacks - Vrabel 5.5 sacks - Colvin and Seymour 5 sacks.

Colvin is the closest of all those players to being a traditional rushing OLB.

Belichick needs an edge setting DE who can rush and another CB who can give the line time to get there. many of our sacks were coverage sacks back then.

BB tried replacing pass rushers with veterans rather than the draft. That's more than just a little hole in your argument: It's a fatal chasm.

 

[IcyPatriot]

..... Sack rankings


2001: Patriots were 13th
2003: Patriots were 6th
2004: Patriots were 3rd
2007: Patriots were 2nd

2008: Patriots had fallen to 14th
2009: Patriots were 23rd
2010: Patriots were 14th again


But, somehow, the team no longer needs a pass rush.

Do we have a trophy from 2007?

We do have from 2001 - 2003 - 2004 where we had a strong secondary which gave the line time to get coverage sacks. We are not far off getting back to those earlier years - a DE who can set the edge and rush which is what McGinest was along with Seymour is what we are missing.

A top CB will make the line way more effective while maintaining a stout rushing defense.

 

[JackBauer]

If Bill saw it that way he would have drafted a top flight OLB by now. But perhaps you forget that most of our pass rush back then came from secondary blitzes - Ty Law and Rodney Harrison. Another CB and S and he's right back to those days and with a stout line he also shuts down the run.

DE who can seal the edge

CB to play alongside mcCourty

S to use in nickel and dime situations as a cover or run defender

Bill is right back to the glory days of 3 SB championships.

2001: Hamilton 7 sacks - Pleasant 6 sacks - mcGinest 6 sacks

2003: Vrabel 9.5 sacks - Seymour 8 sacks - McGinest 5.5 sacks

2004: McGinest 9.5 sacks - Vrabel 5.5 sacks - Colvin and Seymour 5 sacks.

Colvin is the closest of all those players to being a traditional rushing OLB.

Belichick needs an edge setting DE who can rush and another CB who can give the line time to get there. many of our sacks were coverage sacks back then.

So by adding a cornerback and a safety, somehow a front seven that has proven itself demonstrably pedestrian at rushing the passer will somehow learn to rush the passer?

If you look at the erstwhile Patriots teams, where do you see the most marked change on defense? Seymour, McGinest, and Vrabel have been replaced by Wright, TBC, and Ninkovich.

 

[IcyPatriot]

BB tried replacing pass rushers with veterans rather than the draft. That's more than just a little hole in your argument: It's a fatal chasm.

that makes no sense at all ... if Bill had it as a high priority he would have goe a different route. the way you and others describe is that Bill needs to come to his senses. My argument assumes he has his senses - he doesn't see it your way because if he did he would have gotten that player when Bruschi / vrabel / McGinest were on their last legs.

 

[IcyPatriot]

So by adding a cornerback and a safety, somehow a front seven that has proven itself demonstrably pedestrian at rushing the passer will somehow learn to rush the passer?

If you look at the erstwhile Patriots teams, where do you see the most marked change on defense? Seymour, McGinest, and Vrabel have been replaced by Wright, TBC, and Ninkovich.

He may or may not replace Seymour but he will find a McGinest in this draft. This draft is ripe in DE types. he could gamble and get a DT 1a and a DE 1b but i don't think he can pull it off without trading up - too expensive. I think he can get one of those and supplement it with a CB who are expected to drop and will be excellent value - he'll go for the coverage sacks with Wright, Cunningham and Ninko.

 

[Deus Irae]

Do we have a trophy from 2007?

We do have from 2001 - 2003 - 2004 where we had a strong secondary which gave the line time to get coverage sacks. We are not far off getting back to those earlier years - a DE who can set the edge and rush which is what McGinest was along with Seymour is what we are missing.

A top CB will make the line way more effective while maintaining a stout rushing defense.

Ok, now, the stupidity of your 2007 comment demonstrates that you must just be trolling. Either that, or your inability to grasp obvious numbers and the correlation is astounding.

 

[Deus Irae]

that makes no sense at all ... if Bill had it as a high priority he would have goe a different route...

If getting pass rushers was a higher priority, he'd have gone a route other than bringing in established pass rushers?


Have you been drinking?

 

[JackBauer]

He may or may not replace Seymour but he will find a McGinest in this draft.

Do you really think McGinest-type players just grow on trees?

 

[IcyPatriot]

Ok, now, the stupidity of your 2007 comment demonstrates that you must just be trolling. Either that, or your inability to grasp obvious numbers and the correlation is astounding.

You show me one year ... one ... where Bill went out and got a top pass rushing OLB. Not a stop gap like Colvin --- a top OLB.

Just one.

BTW - you use of the word stupidity shows you have nothing in this discussion.

 

[JackBauer]

Rosevelt Colvin was a top OLB, and so was Adalius Thomas.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Do you really think McGinest-type players just grow on trees?

They don't ... and neither do top pass rushing OLB's.

That is why he will get a DE who can help seal the edge and rush a bit and a CB. If he can grab another CB and have Bodden/Butler/Arrington/Safety for nickel and dime packages he gets coverage sacks ... that's how it was in 2001, 2003 and 2004 which i proved with my sacks stats.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Rosevelt Colvin was a top OLB, and so was Adalius Thomas.

They were above average.

Colvin had 10.5 sacks in 2001 and 2002.
He then came here and had 2 - 5 - 7 - 8.5 - 4 - Bill dropped him in coverage a lot.

Thomas had 8 - 9 - 11 in his last 3 years as a Raven
He came here and then had 6.5 - 5 - 3 - Bill dropped him in coverage.

this is the part you members refuse to see. Bill drops athletic LB'ers into coverage more than he sends them to rush a QB. It's been that way since he came here. The only way your argument becomes valid is if Bill decides to change his defensive scheme - and i don't see that happening yet. He will rebuild the line before he grabs a top flight OLB for QB pressure. He will draft DT/DE high or he will spend high for them in FA. A DE/DT is far more valuable to bill than a OLB in his scheme. he likes OLB's who can also play with their hands on the ground like Vrabel and Willie. Unless those guys are out there he will get the DE type.

 

[SNHU0311]

Re: 2011 Offseason Outlook - Running Back

7 Free Agents the Patriots Will Show Interest In Patriots Plus Here's an interesting list of seven potential Patriots...I really like Hali.

 

[Deus Irae]

You show me one year ... one ... where Bill went out and got a top pass rushing OLB. Not a stop gap like Colvin --- a top OLB.

Just one.

BTW - you use of the word stupidity shows you have nothing in this discussion.

A 7 year deal is a stop gap?

Calling Colvin a stop gap just reinforces my point about you trolling, thank you. He was coming off of back-to-back seasons of 10 1/2 sacks when the Patriots got him. What happened was that he got injured very early in his first season as a Patriot (2 games) and was never the same.

As for the use of the word stupidity regarding a particular comment. Shoe... fits... etc.