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August 25th Roster Musings


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Interesting note from last night's "Hard Knocks." Rex and Tanny were going through the same exercise as people on this thread, trying to predict who will be on their final 53-man roster. At the end of the discussion, Rex says to Tanny: "We don't have enough good football players."[/quote]


Nice passive aggressive CYA slam at the GM for not shoping for good "groceries".
So the dissention begins...
 
Take McGowan for example. Would you rather have a disgruntled McGowan in the locker room, stewing over the fact that he doesn't even get to dress on game day, or Sergio Brown busting his tail in practice trying to stick in the NFL.

Agreed, Brown is one of the players I really want to watch tonight. Whenever I've seen him in camp or preseason games, he's looked surprisingly good. He's the ultimate longshot...I don't think he was even a full-time starter in college and wasn't considered close to draftable. But the Pats' current DB coach was his college DB coach, and clearly saw the potential there.
 
Interesting note from last night's "Hard Knocks." Rex and Tanny were going through the same exercise as people on this thread, trying to predict who will be on their final 53-man roster. At the end of the discussion, Rex says to Tanny: "We don't have enough good football players."

I like Tanny but just for the purposes of "raising the bar" it would be better if we referred to him as "Tranny" instead.
 
I would rather have Sergio Brown working his butt off in practice, on the Practrice Squad. That is the point of the squad.

McGowan would be expected to active for some games, and inactive for others. Having solid depth is good. There is no reason to throw depth away because we think the player would be unhappy.

 
Compare to ESPN Boston's list 8/26
New England Patriots: Predicting the 53-man roster (version 3.0) - ESPN Boston

Bubble players in various scenarios who get cut include:


RB BenJarvus Green-Ellis
OL Thomas Welch
C/G Ted Larsen
C/G Eric Ghiaciuc
OT/G Nick Kaczur
DL Damione Lewis
DL Brandon Deaderick
OLB Marques Murrell
OLB Rob Ninkovich
S Sergio Brown

Interesting, both of them have Bussey cut. And Reiss has quietly slipped Tyrone McKenzie back onto the roster. ;)
 
This may help with the final 4-5 spots where special teams play is critical.

From ESPN Boston, Special teams breakdown - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

"Punt coverage: Sergio Brown, Kyle Arrington, Brandon McGowan, Eric Alexander, Rob Ninkovich, Jake Ingram, Pierre Woods, Jerod Mayo, Sam Aiken, Patrick Chung, Zoltan Mesko

Punt return: Darius Butler, Kyle Arrington, Patrick Chung, Devin McCourty, James Sanders, Aaron Hernandez, Eric Alexander, Rob Ninkovich, Sam Aiken, Pierre Woods, Brandon Tate

Kickoff coverage: Kyle Arrington, Brandon McGowan, Devin McCourty, Pierre Woods, Eric Alexander, Rob Ninkovich, Sergio Brown, Sam Aiken, Brandon Meriweather, James Sanders, Stephen Gostkowski

Kickoff return: Sam Aiken, Tyrone McKenzie, Marques Murrell, Eric Alexander, Pierre Woods, Brandon McGowan, Alge Crumpler, Dan Connolly, Aaron Hernandez, Sammy Morris, Brandon Tate
"


Watch these units closely the next two weeks. I expect one or two players to come from outside the organization, either via waiver wire or by trade. Nervous time of year to be Slater, Aiken, Alexander, Brown, Nincovich, Woods, Murrell, Arrington, etc.

Focusing on STs play is key. It's probably a useful exercise to look at STs and figure out your starters and reserves at key roles, much like we do with offense defense. (Sounds like a fun way to spend the post-game.) Thinking along those lines:

Assume that the players on all 4 ST units are "starters" and on the roster by default. Assume that players on 3ST units are likely starters and on the roster, if they are good enough to provide depth on offense or defense.

Aiken, Woods, and Alexander are those ST starters. None of them are ever going to be anyone's offensive or defensive binky, but they have important roles on the team. Woods was a (the?) top ST tackler last year. It's hard to ignore that. He also is also a reliable OLB in run support, which despite being an unsexy role for an OLB, is the first job of the front seven in the base defense. Alexander had a big role in the 2nd string defense last week. It will be interesting to see how many of his reps at ILB and on ST go to Guyton this week, as he is the only LB that is faster than Alexander, and speed is king on the coverage units. Aiken is a captain and gets reps on offense. It's clear that BB loves both him and Alexander.

Last season Slater was a four-team ST player, but with his injury, his roles have been filled by McCourty and Sammy Morris, and (Sergio Brown, I think, at gunner). Brown likely won't make the team, which means they'll need to find someone to line up at gunner, across from:

Arrington. Arrington is a Lock.

McGowan seems to be on lots of people's radar for a cut, but he was on 3 ST units last week. That suggests that he will end-up in Lockett's old ST slot, since he can't seem to get on the field. It's not clear that McGowan's dime DB spot goes away with Bodden's return, given that he's provides a hybrid S/LB role in run support in that package. Doubt we'll see 4CBs and 2S in the dime anytime soon. If he overruns another play or three, Chung could move into that role with Sanders behind him, but I still don't see that possibility changing the roster.

I was definitely suprised when Rodak listed Ninkovich as one of the guys on 3 first-string ST units. Considering that and his pass-rushing motor (if not out-and-out prowess), he and Woods could be the 5th and 6th OLB (or 4th and 5th if you count Burgess as the 7th DL). There was a lot of discussion of Murrell as a ST player, so perhaps he could move into Woods or Ninkovich's role, if roster spots get tight. It will be interesting to see if he gets reps on STs this week.

I don't see a 10th OL or 7th DL (aside from Burgess). We'll be relying on the practice squad for extra depth, should the big guys on either side of the ball take a collective beating for a week or two. Bussey, Larsen, OBurger, Wendell, and Welch are all candidates for this role at OL (although I expect 2 of those 5 will make the 53), and Love and Deaderick are likely candidates on DL.

As much as I'm pulling for him, I see Wheatley as a guy in need of a job on this team. I thought I'd see more of him on ST, and I thought he might get a shot in Wilhite's nickel-slot CB slot while Bodden was out. He continues to look good in coverage, but if he's only getting his shot against 2nd-string WRs, he might not be shining in practice against the Pat's arsenal of receivers. I refuse to take him off my 53 yet, but if he doesn't get Wilhite's reps, either one of our core STers or one of our LBs (the 3 lowest of whom on the defensive depth chart are top STers) will have to go.

McCourty is your other gunner - and a darn good one. The 2 people who haven't played much on ST to my surprise are Murrell and Morris. I was expecting both of these guys to be on majority of the ST units.


I would say another player to consider watching is Tyrone McKenzie. He was in on only one of the special team units (kickoff returns). Prior to camp I had figured he would be on most if not all special teams; now some (like Mike Reiss) are speculating he could be cut. I don't know if the Pats are bringing him along slowly due to last year's injury, if he's having trouble picking things up (that shouldn't be the case since he's been here for a year longer than the rookies), or if the lack of playing time is just a meaningless coincidence.
 
Aug 26 differences - 6 open roster spots

POSITIONS OF DIFFERENCE - SIX OPEN ROSTER SPOTS
As I posted yesterday, there are six open positions. Reiss and Rodak agree on 48 roster spots. I agree with 47 of the 48 (I don't have Alexander). I agree with Reiss on Ninkovich (total or 48) and with Rodak on Lewis and Murrell (total of 49). I disagree with them regarding the last two OL spots. We each have one wildcard (for Reiss it is Green-Ellis, for Rodak it is Brown, for me it is Wheatley).

OFFENSIVE LINE (2) with Ojinnaka not counting for Week 1
Reiss Welch, Larsen
Rodak Ghiaciuc, Kaczur
mg Ohrnberger, Bussey
Reiss missed the announcement that there is still a Practice Squad in 2010.

DEFENSIVE LINE
Reiss Deaderick
Rodak Lewis
mg Lewis
I'm also fine with Deaderick.

OUTSIDE LINEBACKER
Reiss Ninkovich, Alexander
Rodak Murrell, Alexander
mg Murrell, Ninkovich
Who is the odd man out?

PLAYER 53
Reiss Green-Ellis
Rodak Brown
mg Wheatley
 
Who's on the Pats' roster bubble by Mike Reiss for espnBoston

Reiss lists his bubble players as being BJGE, LeVoir, Lewis, McKenzie, Murrell, Slater and Wheatley. He specifically notes lack of time on special teams as a factor for McKenzie, Murrell, Slater and Wheatley; plus, Lewis and LeVoir are not in on special teams either.



New England Patriots: Predicting the 53-man roster (version 3.0) - ESPN Boston

Interesting to compare the roster projections between Reiss and Rodak. On offense Reiss has the Pats going with five RB while Rodak cuts BJGE; both have Aiken making the roster. At tackle the two have both LeVoir and Ojinnaka making the team and as patchick noted Bussey being cut; Reiss includes Welch but Rodak does not. Inside Reiss keeps Wendell and Larsen, Rodak keeps Wendell, Ghiaciuc, and both drop Ohrnberger and Simmons.

On the defensive line both keep Pryor and Brace as backups; for the last spot Reiss includes Deaderick while Rodak includes Lewis; Kyle Love goes to the practice squad. At OLB both keep Woods; Reiss also goes with Ninkovich while Rodak takes Murrell. At ILB they agree to keep both McKenzie and Alexander and cut both Williams and Fletcher. The two both have the Pats going with five corners, with Wilhite and Arrington making the team, but not Wheatley. Rodak has the Pats keeping a fifth safety, Sergio Brown.

So according to them they agree on 23 players on offense, with the only questions being BJGE vs an extra OL, and the last couple of OL spots (Welch, Larsen, Ghiaciuc, Kaczur.) The two also agree on 23 players on defense; their only question marks are Deaderick or Lewis on the DL, Ninkovich or Murrell at OLB, and making space for Sergio Brown (perhaps Brown vs BJGE.)



Edit: sorry for the duplication, mgteich beat me to it while I was reading those columns ...
 
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Also, both have Aiken, Alexander, Woods and Arrington as their special teamers. Reiss add Ninkovich and Rodak adds Murrell.

As I recall, you only wanted two special teams only players: Arrington and Slater.

BTW, Slater hasn't gotten much notice as a roster option because of his injury. But that didn't stop Belichick from saving a spot for him last year.

It seems that we all have 10 linebackers, choosing three of Alexander, Woods, Ninkovich and Murrell.

Interesting, both of them have Bussey cut. And Reiss has quietly slipped Tyrone McKenzie back onto the roster. ;)
 
Also, both have Aiken, Alexander, Woods and Arrington as their special teamers. Reiss add Ninkovich and Rodak adds Murrell.

As I recall, you only wanted two special teams only players: Arrington and Slater.

BTW, Slater hasn't gotten much notice as a roster option because of his injury. But that didn't stop Belichick from saving a spot for him last year.

It seems that we all have 10 linebackers, choosing three of Alexander, Woods, Ninkovich and Murrell.

Yep, Slater is a very tough call. I haven't revisited my roster in a while, but the OLB situation is very slippery at the moment. Does anybody recall much about Ninkovich on ST last year?
 
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Tonight will be a great time to carve some of these stone. Can't wait to see the game. Murrell is one place I'll be looking quite a bit...
 
Injuries, contract dispute alter shape of Patriots 53-man projection - BostonHerald.com

The Boston Herald's Karen Guregian put this roster projection together Monday. On offense she has BJGE making the team rather than Aiken, and the Pats going with 10 OL - Bussey, LeVoir, Larsen, Welch and Wendell all make it but Ohrnberger does not. She has the Pats keeping all seven DL; Murrell and Ninkovich over Woods at OLB; McKenzie over Alexander for the fourth ILB spot; and Wilhite and Arrington over Wheatley for the final corner spot. Though she mentions special teams, it doesn't appear that she gives it much weight in her predictions.
 
Yep, Slater is a very tough call. I haven't revisited my roster in a while, but the OLB situation is very slippery at the moment. Does anybody recall much about Ninkovich on ST last year?
I can't specifically recall his special teams play myself, but he got some decent reviews for his ST play:

Rob Ninkovich Gives Patriots Versatile Option at Long Snapper - New England Patriots - NESN.com
"Ninkovich -- who is a nice backup outside linebacker and has good special teams value"

Rob Ninkovich Fitting in Just Fine With Patriots - New England Patriots - NESN.com
"Ninkovich made his mark on special teams, and he performed well on defense during his reps with the second team in the preseason."

Patriots Roster Prediction #44: OLB Rob Ninkovich - Pats Pulpit
"He was a star player on special teams, while providing solid depth in the linebacker core."

At this stage of the game, Pats? Ninkovich just looking for a place to hang his helmet - Brockton, MA - The Enterprise
"Signed as a free agent last Aug. 2, Ninkovich showed enough positive signs in New England for the Patriots to sign him to a two-year contract extension during the course of the season.

The 6-foot-2, 255-pound outside linebacker-defensive end posted career highs in games played (15), special teams tackles (11) defensive tackles (10) and passes defensed (two) while registering the first sack of his career (Oct. 11 at Denver) in 2009.
"
 
I think Belichck has almost completely reconstructed the Team, already. There are still positions that could bear more talent, but I only see four or five. Amazing that there is only one starter left from th 2007 Defense. Yet that Defense is hardly bereft of talent in both starting and reserve positions.

It appears that the Pats will have another "Double Draft", a patented idea of Belichicks. Since he needs but four players, DE, OLB/DE, C and RT, I wonder will he do something we have seen little of from him but never the less he has done in the past. Will he trade up to get four better players to Gild the Lilly?

Don't forget that he traded up for Graham, Light, Wilson, and Warren, (and Jackson!)
 
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Jeff Howe of NESN updated his roster predictions after last night's game against the Rams:

Laurence Maroney Odd Man Out in Latest Patriots Roster Prediction - New England Patriots - NESN.com

The big change is Howe now thinks BJGE makes the roster and Maroney is cut. He has the Pats going with ten offensive linemen, with LeVoir, Larsen, Wendell, Bussey and Ojinnaka as the backups. Howe also has the Pats keeping Aiken, as well as all seven defensive linemen. He has the Pats going with four ILB and Ninkovich and Murrell at OLB, which would mean Woods, Alexander, Fletcher and Williams are cut. In the secondary he keeps four safeties (no Sergio Brown) and all six corners.

I don't know about keeping that many linemen, as they tend to be less productive running downfield on special teams. And despite getting no playing time, I'm not yet sold on the idea that Maroney is finished in New England.
 
despite getting no playing time, I'm not yet sold on the idea that Maroney is finished in New England.

Me neither. Anybody projecting Maroney off the team is purely trying to read BB's inscrutable mind...watching Green-Ellis play is NOT going to lead you to that conclusion, alas.
 
....despite getting no playing time, I'm not yet sold on the idea that Maroney is finished in New England.

Me neither. Anybody projecting Maroney off the team is purely trying to read BB's inscrutable mind...watching Green-Ellis play is NOT going to lead you to that conclusion, alas.

Maroney has played in as many games as Taylor, and has 8 carries to Taylor's 11. Using the logic of some of these projections, the Patriots will be starting the season with only Morris, BJGE and Faulk in the backfield.
 
Maroney has played in as many games as Taylor, and has 8 carries to Taylor's 11. Using the logic of some of these projections, the Patriots will be starting the season with only Morris, BJGE and Faulk in the backfield.

Except (a) Maroney's reps came with the 2nd team while Taylor's came with the starters, and (b) Taylor was more successful than Maroney.
 
Except (a) Maroney's reps came with the 2nd team while Taylor's came with the starters, and (b) Taylor was more successful than Maroney.

Maroney was actually extremely successful, as I've broken down elsewhere. His YPC in open space (plays with significant distance to the goal line) was excellent, and he was able to pound the ball in twice for touchdowns.
 
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