Panthers may not tag Peppers (merged)

[nashvillepatsfan]

Signing Dansby would open up the Patriots draft board considerably.

They could devote their attention to DE/OLB and WR.

I would rather Dansby than Peppers. I just don't understand the love for Peppers on this board.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

I'd shocked if Dansby isn't retained by the Cardinals as he is their only significant free agent. With that said, the Pats would have to trade draft picks in order to get him. Peppers seems like the most likely free agent the Pats will pursue. If Peppers still wants to be a Patriot, he will be a Patriot.

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

Well its all going to be how much the Patriots want to spend, because that is how its going to be... Snyder , and jones are going to go hog wild in spending money... This year is going to be very different, and depending how much we spend is what we will get back in return..

 

[102 Pat]

It's pure speculation at this point, but Adam Schefter wrote this on his twitter account last night:

My three best guesses on potential landing spots for free-agent-to-be DE Julius Peppers: Atlanta, New England, Baltimore.

about 11 hours ago from UberTwitter

 

[bucky]

Wilfork is not useless on 3rd and 6th. He can collapse the pocket from the middle. New England simply employs different packages. Big difference.

As for the run stopper argument, it's pretty clear that run stoppers are still much more important than pass rushers, just as they always have been.

Wilfork has 7.5 sacks in his 6 years. And he probably has 4 or 5 roughing the passer penalties. So he doesn't give you much on 3rd and 6. If there was ever a year they needed him to step up rushing the passer it was this year. And he had 0 sacks. I'd actually say that Peppers is more useful on 3rd and 1 than Wilfork is on 3rd and 6.

Problem with Peppers is that he just turned 30 and he's going to want something very similar to what Haynesworth got last year - 4/48 with $41 mil guaranteed. I wouldn't do that.

 

[mayoclinic]

I just can't really see BB paying Bodden around 6-7 million per year. Dynasty has a point that Butler should be able to start this year and Wilhite/Wheatley should be better and Springs was pretty good when he played. If that's the way it goes down, then I definitely want to grab Peterson in the 2011 draft with that Raiders pick. Peterson and Butler starting at CB with Wilhite and Wheatley would be a very nice looking young secondary.

I fully expect Butler to start this year. And I probably want Peterson in 2011 no matter what happens, though there's no guarantee that we'll be able to get him even with the pick from the Raiders. But I personally would not be very comfortable with a rotation of Butler-Springs-Wilhite-Wheatley-Arrington (or rookie CB). Springs hasn't shown that he can play a full season for us and will be the 2nd oldest CB in the league this year. Wilhite regressed after being prematurely pushed into a starting role. And Wheatley has never shown that he's more than a nickel back.

The FO will decide how much they will be willing to pay. But I can't see Bodden settling for less than Jabari Greer or Dominique Foxworth made. He the best CB of the 3, and more than anything he wants to be valued after playing for a discount last year. He may take a small discount to stay with us, but I doubt it will be $5M/year (I would be thrilled if it were). I'm guessing that he'll settle for the low (Greer) end of the spectrum at $6M/year instead of the high (Foxworth) $7M end, but it's just a guess. Someone could offer him $8M for all I know, which I wouldn't consider worth it. But after a lot of instability in the secondary the past several years, I think that it's important to build some continuity and rapport within the unit, so I would personally advocate paying a bit more for Bodden, leaving the secondary alone, and freeing us up to address other others. JMHO.

 

[Rob0729]

I'd shocked if Dansby isn't retained by the Cardinals as he is their only significant free agent. With that said, the Pats would have to trade draft picks in order to get him. Peppers seems like the most likely free agent the Pats will pursue. If Peppers still wants to be a Patriot, he will be a Patriot.

That is assuming that Dansby would want to be with the Cardinals after they franchised him two years in a row. It is doubtful they will franchise him again since the third franchise tag is the average of the top 5 QBs. That means they would have to pay him close to $17 million to franchise him.

With the word on the street that Arizona is also looking to cut or trade Antrel Rolle because of salary size, they probably don't want to spend money on Dansby either.

 

[Rob0729]

It's pure speculation at this point, but Adam Schefter wrote this on his twitter account last night:

My three best guesses on potential landing spots for free-agent-to-be DE Julius Peppers: Atlanta, New England, Baltimore.

about 11 hours ago from UberTwitter

New England is going to be speculated because of all the talk last year. I don't know if Schefter has any inside info.

 

[mayoclinic]

I'd shocked if Dansby isn't retained by the Cardinals as he is their only significant free agent. With that said, the Pats would have to trade draft picks in order to get him.

Why do you say that?

1. Dansby will be a UFA this year unless he is franchised by the Cardinals. If not, the Pats would not have to give up any draft picks to sign him.

2. The Cards have franchised Dansby the 2 previous years. Under CBA rules, if they franchised him this year they would have to do so at the highest franchise level of any position, which is $16.405M for QBs. That's an awful lot to pay an LB.

3. Dansby had a slightly down year this year, lessening the Cards desire to pay him a fortune.

4. The Cards have had 3 years to get a long term deal done with Dansby and haven't been able to. The odds that they will do so in the next few weeks are low.

5. The Cards have other big signings to address (Dockett, Bolden, etc.) The Kurt Warner retirement frees up some money, but they still have other areas to address.

I'd say the odds are > 90% that Dansby hits the market as a UFA. The main issue is how many gazillion $$ it will take to sign him, because there will be a lot of demand for his services.

 

[mayoclinic]

I see two scenarios as a possibility but probably more wishful thinking.

Scenario #1: You manage to draft Dan Willaims, you now have Williams and Brace to provide insurance in case you're unable to sign Wilfork longterm and the opportunity to trade him arises.

Scenario #2: You manage to draft Carlos Dunlap, and you decide not to pursue Peppers. Somehow, a deal is struck and Wilfork is signed longterm.

I feel that the first scenario is more probable since Williams is likely a second round selection (maybe, more like a third round) at best. However, a platoon of Brace and Williams isn't as appealing as Wilfork as a returning starter. Still, that isn't bad...

Both great options. Williams is not a 2nd/3rd round pick right now, he's a solid 1st rounder, possibly a top 20 guy coming off of his Senior Bowl week where he was one of the big winners and clearly established himself as the #1 3-4 DT ahead of Terrance Cody. Williams could probably also move to 3-4 DE in a Haloti Ngata-role, providing versatility. Dunlap could play the Peppers role far more cheaply, whether lining up at DE or OLB. They are 2 of my top 1st round targets for the Pats at 22, if either lasts that long.

San Francisco has already said that they will franchise Franklin, so that's not likely to be an option. Ryan Pickett and Casey Hampton are possibiltiies to replace Wilfork short term if he's tagged and traded.

Again, I'd take Wilfork + Dansby over Peppers in a heartbeat. That would solidify the middle of our defense. Add a Williams or a Dunlap in the draft plus a 3rd round guy like Hardy or Austen Lane and we would be much, much stronger.

 

[Patjew]

1. Read my sig.

2. Goto 1.

 

[Wheelssps]

Again, I'd take Wilfork + Dansby over Peppers in a heartbeat. That would solidify the middle of our defense. Add a Williams or a Dunlap in the draft plus a 3rd round guy like Hardy or Austen Lane and we would be much, much stronger.

I have definitely liked Dansby when I've watched him play. He's that dynamic difference maker that as a viewer makes you watch him throughout the game. That said, I've not played close enough attention to see how the Cardinals have lined him up and how he would translate for us. Would he be the SILB? Would he be the MILB, keeping Mayo at SILB? If he has the skill set and ability to play the SILB, I'm all for it, allowing Mayo to slide back to the weakside. What do you think, Mayo?

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

This is probably why we wont see Peppers as a Pat.... There is no way we pay Peppers a 100 mil contract, while brady and wilfork sit and wait...

Final eight plan reduces Peppers' options by 25 percent | ProFootballTalk.com

 

[satz]

1)Love for a guy who was called out by his own young team mates this year is amazing. johnathan stewart and john beason called out pepper as he shut it down for a few games and decided to play in a few.They were the young leaders and they called him for jogging around.

2) DE make the most a reason most teams develop and sign there own guys early,pepper will be asking for market rate 10-11 million a year for 4 yrs [discounted rate i do not see him getting the top $$ for 13-14 a yr deal]

3)He will be 31 by next season so heck can he contribute till he is 35.

4)In a division where the jets field the No1 rushing offence and Miami which till ronney brown , cobbs went down and later ricky was also dinged up was on pace to be a top 5 rushing attack the want to play some guy who cannot play the run is amazing. spend so much money and sit him against the jets and maimi.

5)Bills always run on us and yeah we definitely need a player who cannot play the run.

 

[Rob0729]

This is probably why we wont see Peppers as a Pat.... There is no way we pay Peppers a 100 mil contract, while brady and wilfork sit and wait...

Final eight plan reduces Peppers' options by 25 percent | ProFootballTalk.com

Actually, this article makes it more likely the Pats might get Peppers than less. The whole article is about how the market for Peppers will be reduced and that he probably won't get anywhere near what he wants.

Besides, read the article again. Nowhere does it say that Peppers is looking for an $100 million contract. Florio stated it as writing tool to give impact to his article, but doesn't even imply that is what Peppers is looking for $100 million.

 

[Rob0729]

1)Love for a guy who was called out by his own young team mates this year is amazing. johnathan stewart and john beason called out pepper as he shut it down for a few games and decided to play in a few.They were the young leaders and they called him for jogging around.

The guy had a slow start to the season no doubt, but he was a beast the second half and almost single handily shutdown Favre and the Vikings offense vs. a great LT like Bryant McKinnie.

2) DE make the most a reason most teams develop and sign there own guys early,pepper will be asking for market rate 10-11 million a year for 4 yrs [discounted rate i do not see him getting the top $$ for 13-14 a yr deal]

Peppers can ask all he wants. People forget that just because a player wants a certain compensation doesn't mean that anyone will pay it. With the uncertainty of the future and the top eight teams pretty much taken out of the high free agent market, odds are that no one is going to be breaking the bank this offseason.

3)He will be 31 by next season so heck can he contribute till he is 35.

If the Pats can give him a deal like he did with Seymour (only three years), it may be worth the risk. Besides, Peppers will not be 31 until the 2011 season since his 30th birthday was this past Saturday.

4)In a division where the jets field the No1 rushing offence and Miami which till ronney brown , cobbs went down and later ricky was also dinged up was on pace to be a top 5 rushing attack the want to play some guy who cannot play the run is amazing. spend so much money and sit him against the jets and maimi.

The Pats' problem all year has been putting pressure on opposing QBs. You are talking 4 games out of 16. You don't build your team to play 4 games even if they are division games.

5)Bills always run on us and yeah we definitely need a player who cannot play the run.

The Bills haven't beaten the Pats since 2003. They have finished in fourth place for years. They have a new head coach and coaching staff so we don't even know what kind of offense they will be running yet. Gailey comes from the Elway Denver days so he is pass oriented.

 

[upstater1]

Here's an interesting question someone asked at the PFT link:

Let me ask this question: Could one of the remaining 24 teams sign Peppers to a fat contract, and then trade him to one of the other 8 teams in a sort of wink wink deal? As in, they would obviously know going in ahead of signing him that they would trade him and already have the deal in place with another team... or is there some sort of rule against that hidden in there as well?

I'm not convinced that this couldn't happen especially when you saw the Lions pick up O'Connell off waivers and trade him to the Jets. I don't think there's anything preventing this sort of thing.

Of course, the signing bonus would make this difficult BUT in an uncapped year, teams may get creative.

 

[satz]

The guy had a slow start to the season no doubt, but he was a beast the second half and almost single handily shutdown Favre and the Vikings offense vs. a great LT like Bryant McKinnie.

yes as noted 2 games which was televised nationally.You are happy to pay a guy who shows up for nationally televised games ONLY. He has been dogging it for than 50% of the season. You telling his team mates think he is a dog even though he was playing hurt? i do not think so.

Peppers can ask all he wants. People forget that just because a player wants a certain compensation doesn't mean that anyone will pay it. With the uncertainty of the future and the top eight teams pretty much taken out of the high free agent market, odds are that no one is going to be breaking the bank this offseason.

Again , i am looking at 11 million a below market rate not the 13 million a tope level guy will get. The top 8 all have pass rushers already so which one is handicapped.

If the Pats can give him a deal like he did with Seymour (only three years), it may be worth the risk. Besides, Peppers will not be 31 until the 2011 season since his 30th birthday was this past Saturday.

Missing the point seymour game does not involve the first quick muscle twitch step which is key for a pass rushing end. With age you slow down and if injured forget him for 2 yrs. Look at AD he hit the wall and lost that first step and now he is less effective.

The Pats' problem all year has been putting pressure on opposing QBs. You are talking 4 games out of 16. You don't build your team to play 4 games even if they are division games.

You win your division first and that you do by shutting down the offenses in your division.Stopping the run is so key and running the ball. instead of paying him use the money to get vince and mankins. will probabily cost the same.Also, what would you do if you have to play the ravens in the playoff again or Jacksonville?

The Bills haven't beaten the Pats since 2003. They have finished in fourth place for years. They have a new head coach and coaching staff so we don't even know what kind of offense they will be running yet. Gailey comes from the Elway Denver days so he is pass oriented.

I concur but its kinda embrassing to watch them run up and down lol.Were impressed that the bills with a 7th rd LT,2 off the street FA gaurds and a backup gaurd playing tackle as most of there starting unit in IR were ripping it up.

 

[mayoclinic]

Here's an interesting question someone asked at the PFT link:



I'm not convinced that this couldn't happen especially when you saw the Lions pick up O'Connell off waivers and trade him to the Jets. I don't think there's anything preventing this sort of thing.

Of course, the signing bonus would make this difficult BUT in an uncapped year, teams may get creative.

Sure they could. But that's no different than Carolina tagging Peppers and one of the final 8 trading for him. They'd have to give up a fair amount of compensation to get him. The final 8 team (really final 4 team) couldn't just sign him off the open market.

 

[Rob0729]

yes as noted 2 games which was televised nationally.You are happy to pay a guy who shows up for nationally televised games ONLY. He has been dogging it for than 50% of the season. You telling his team mates think he is a dog as he was playing hurt?.

He played great near the entire second half of the season, not just televised games. The guy also still had 10.5 sacks.

Again , i am looking at 11 million a below market rate not the 13 million a tope level guy will get.

So you would rather tank next year grooming a OLB for 2011? You do realize that most DEs/OLBs don't have great rookie years.

Besides, if there is no cap and the Pats can get him to sign a three year deal that will allow them to get out of it in two years with minimal cap hit, what do you care what they spend? It is Bob Kraft's money.

Also, I expect salaries to decrease with the odds of the new CBA either stalling cap growth or decreasing the cap very likely.

Missing the point seymour game does not involve the first quick muscle twitch step which is key for a pass rushing end. With age you slow down and if injured forget him for 2 yrs. Look at AD he hit the wall and lost that first step and now he is less effective.

Seymour is a DE and both Peppers and Thomas are OLB (at least in the Pats' system). Besides, Peppers is not all speed. He is very good at making the angles and getting leverage against the opposing tackles. Besides, comparing Thomas who has had several injuries to Peppers isn't neccessarily the case.

You win your division first and that you do by shutting down the offenses in your division.Stopping the run is so key and running the ball. instead of paying him use the money to get vince and mankins. will probabily cost the same.Also, what would you do if you have to play the ravens in the playoff again or Jacksonville?

You win your division by winning the most games. That means you build your team to beat any team in the league not just your division foes.

Besides, who said that getting Peppers would stop the Pats from having a good run defense. They had a pretty good one this year. Adding Peppers wouldn't stop them from being good again. Mankins is irrelevant to this conversation.

I concur but its kinda embrassing to watch them run up and down lol.

So now the Pats should build a team not to win, but win without being embarrassing? The Bills had 105 yards rushing the last time they played the Patriots. Not all that bad, but certainly not embarrassing to the Pats. In the first game of the season, the Bills rushed for 90 yards vs. the Pats. Last year in the first meeting, the Bills rushed for 60 yards (although they rushed for 161 yards the second time, but the Pats still blew them out 13-0).