Panthers may not tag Peppers (merged)

[carolinatony]

A lot of people are saying the Pats should pick one or the other with Wilfork or Peppers. The fact of the matter is that we need both. Not necasarily Peppers, but we need a guy that can make an immediate impact as a pass rusher. If we lose Wilfork then that creates an immediate need on the DL. Getting a proven pass rusher, but losing our best DL and probably best player on defense isnt helping the team, same with keeping our best DL but then not addressing the pass rush.

Personally I would sign Wilfork to a multi year deal around what Mike Reiss proposed yesterday, 4 years 27 million. Then I would go hard after Peppers, he fits our system perfectly and sometimes you have to spend money to better your team.

Do you think that's enought for Vince or is he looking for more?
We do need playmakers and this team looked soft last year on both lines.
They seemed to get pushed off the LOS more than the opposite.

 

[Rob0729]

I agree with you. Sign Wilfork and get pass rushers through the draft. The last thing we need is another high priced free agent with a questionable work ethic.

Although I am not neccessarily advocating getting Peppers unless the market is really down on him (and the market and not Peppers will determine his contract), getting a free agent pass rusher to contribute immediately is very risky. Few do.

BTW, watching Peppers take on Bryant McKinnie this year, he is worth looking at. When Peppers is on he is a beast. Also, his lack of work ethic is a little overstated. He started slow this year, but he was great the second half of the season this year.

If Peppers can get close to what he will probably ask for, I don't know if it worth going after him. If the market is less than hot for him (there should be interest, but maybe not as much as we expect), it will be worth looking at him.

 

[Rob0729]

We could probably sign Wilfork and Dansby for what it would cost to sign Peppers. And I personally think that Dansby would help our defense more than Peppers. No matter how good our edge rushers are, they won't be terribly effective unless we seal the middle better and stop the QB from stepping up into the pocket. Signing Wilfork and Dansby would make us rock solid up the middle. Add a couple of pass rushers in the draft to add to our veterans and we would be a much, much better defense.

I like the idea of Dansby myself. I still think the Pats need to get an outside rusher, but there are a few out there who might be decent enough without breaking the bank.

 

[HarkDawg]

we need an animal on defense. He would be it.



Big, strong, 3-4/4-3 versatile.


we need a legit pass threat on D....


get him!:singing:

 

[The Dynasty]

Do you think that's enought for Vince or is he looking for more?
We do need playmakers and this team looked soft last year on both lines.
They seemed to get pushed off the LOS more than the opposite.

I think that Vince is looking for more, but if he truly wants to stay with the Patriots then this is a fair deal. It was based off of Kris Jenkins deal last season with the Jets, this deal would be giving him 2 million more a year. It is going to take some budging from both sides for a deal to get done and both sides want a deal to get done it is just how far does each side want to give.

You're exactly right we need play makers on defense, preferably guys that can rush the passer. I didnt think our line play was that bad this season, we had a lot of injuries on both sides of the ball. For the most part the OL played well and gave Brady the time he needed to find WR's, the problem was he didnt have anyone to throw to besides Moss and Welker. The DL did a decent job, its strength was stopping the run but still lacked the pressure on the QB. The addition of an OLB could help that out as well.

 

[mayoclinic]

I think that Vince is looking for more, but if he truly wants to stay with the Patriots then this is a fair deal. It was based off of Kris Jenkins deal last season with the Jets, this deal would be giving him 2 million more a year. It is going to take some budging from both sides for a deal to get done and both sides want a deal to get done it is just how far does each side want to give.

I would be pleasantly shocked if that kind of deal gets it done. Far fewer teams were in the market for 3-4 NTs when the Jets signed Jenkins, Jenkins was coming off injury and was older than Wilfork. Carolina traded Jenkins for a 3rd and a 5th, about what we paid Oakland for Derrick Burgess. Would anyone trade Wilfork for that kind of return?

I'd guess $8M/year average would be fair, probably 5 years @ $40M.

You're exactly right we need play makers on defense, preferably guys that can rush the passer. I didnt think our line play was that bad this season, we had a lot of injuries on both sides of the ball. For the most part the OL played well and gave Brady the time he needed to find WR's, the problem was he didnt have anyone to throw to besides Moss and Welker. The DL did a decent job, its strength was stopping the run but still lacked the pressure on the QB. The addition of an OLB could help that out as well.

I personally feel that our outside pass rush won't dramatically improve until we address our interior defense. Better outside pass rushers will only help so much until we are able to seal the interior and stop the QB from stepping up in the pocket.

 

[Rob0729]

I think that Vince is looking for more, but if he truly wants to stay with the Patriots then this is a fair deal. It was based off of Kris Jenkins deal last season with the Jets, this deal would be giving him 2 million more a year. It is going to take some budging from both sides for a deal to get done and both sides want a deal to get done it is just how far does each side want to give.

You're exactly right we need play makers on defense, preferably guys that can rush the passer. I didnt think our line play was that bad this season, we had a lot of injuries on both sides of the ball. For the most part the OL played well and gave Brady the time he needed to find WR's, the problem was he didnt have anyone to throw to besides Moss and Welker. The DL did a decent job, its strength was stopping the run but still lacked the pressure on the QB. The addition of an OLB could help that out as well.

Jenkins didn't get a new deal when he was traded to the Jets. I am guessing that Vince will want something close to what Albert Haynesworth got. The Redskins made him a ridiculously stupid deal, but rarely do players look at ridiculously stupid deals in the players favor and say that they understand it was ridiculously stupid and are willing to take a lot less. He may be willing to settle for less than Haynesworth, but it probably won't be significantly less.

 

[The Dynasty]

Jenkins didn't get a new deal when he was traded to the Jets. I am guessing that Vince will want something close to what Albert Haynesworth got. The Redskins made him a ridiculously stupid deal, but rarely do players look at ridiculously stupid deals in the players favor and say that they understand it was ridiculously stupid and are willing to take a lot less. He may be willing to settle for less than Haynesworth, but it probably won't be significantly less.

My mistake, it was based off of the contract he signed in Feb of 2008.

Kris Jenkins

Vince is looking for something that Haynesworth got, but I cannot see the Patriots giving him that money. If this deal is to get done both sides are going to have to give in a little. Its hard to say what exactly the fairest deal is for both sides, but if Vince really wants to remain a Patriot he will do what it takes for the deal to get done.

 

[furley]

A lot of people are saying the Pats should pick one or the other with Wilfork or Peppers. The fact of the matter is that we need both. Not necasarily Peppers, but we need a guy that can make an immediate impact as a pass rusher. If we lose Wilfork then that creates an immediate need on the DL. Getting a proven pass rusher, but losing our best DL and probably best player on defense isnt helping the team, same with keeping our best DL but then not addressing the pass rush.

Personally I would sign Wilfork to a multi year deal around what Mike Reiss proposed yesterday, 4 years 27 million. Then I would go hard after Peppers, he fits our system perfectly and sometimes you have to spend money to better your team.

The reason why I feel that signing them both isn't an option is due to the fact that 1) Peppers' price tag will be high and 2) the Patriots have other key players to think about whether or not to resign besides Wilfork. There's Gostkowski, Mankins, Watson, Bodden and Faulk.

 

[The Dynasty]

I would be pleasantly shocked if that kind of deal gets it done. Far fewer teams were in the market for 3-4 NTs when the Jets signed Jenkins, Jenkins was coming off injury and was older than Wilfork. Carolina traded Jenkins for a 3rd and a 5th, about what we paid Oakland for Derrick Burgess. Would anyone trade Wilfork for that kind of return?

I'd guess $8M/year average would be fair, probably 5 years @ $40M.

It's that 5th year that I think the Patriots would be a little concerned with. That would take Vince to being 33 years old. I dont have a problem with it at all, but I think the Pats would be a little concerned with it. I dont know what exactly the fairest deal is for both sides, but you have to think if Vince really wanted to stay a Patriot he would do what it takes to make that happen.

I personally feel that our outside pass rush won't dramatically improve until we address our interior defense. Better outside pass rushers will only help so much until we are able to seal the interior and stop the QB from stepping up in the pocket.

I see what you are saying with needing help on the inside as well. Improving the pass rush wont happen in one off season I believe. I think it will take two off seasons to get it back to a great pass rush. The first step and most important step is getting a pass rush from the outside. Then once we establish we can do that, then we can worry about adding a player to help on the interior.

Two wildcards on our roster are Crable and McKenzie if these two guys can step in and make an impact this year then that will greatly improve our pass rush and our defense as a whole and wont make us have to go out and get another impact LB. For the off season we cannot count on those 2 being able to make an immediate impact, we need to go out and get a proven pass rusher than can make an impact right away.

 

[The Dynasty]

The reason why I feel that signing them both isn't an option is due to the fact that 1) Peppers' price tag will be high and 2) the Patriots have other key players to think about whether or not to resign besides Wilfork. There's Gostkowski, Mankins, Watson, Bodden and Faulk.

I agree that Peppers' price tag may be too high and therefore not worth going after. If it is in reason I am all for it. What I am saying is if we let Wilfork walk so we have the money to sign Peppers that leaves a huge void on the DL, that we would also need to address right away.

Out of the players you named Wilfork is by far the most valuable player. He is the most valuable player on the Patriot defense. Getting him back on the team next season is the first priority in the off season. After that then you can start worrying about the second tier players like Ghost, Mankins, Watson, Bodden and Faulk. Out of those guys I think Faulk is a sure thing coming back. Bodden and Mankins will most likely be back as well. Watson I am not so sure about. I could see him wanting to play somewhere where he would be catching more passes instead of blocking

 

[mayoclinic]

Two wildcards on our roster are Crable and McKenzie if these two guys can step in and make an impact this year then that will greatly improve our pass rush and our defense as a whole and wont make us have to go out and get another impact LB. For the off season we cannot count on those 2 being able to make an immediate impact, we need to go out and get a proven pass rusher than can make an impact right away.

I certainly agree that we can't count on either of those 2 guys making a major impact in 2010. Either could conceivably happen, but it's far too iffy to bet the house on.

 

[slash83]

I agree that Peppers' price tag may be too high and therefore not worth going after. If it is in reason I am all for it. What I am saying is if we let Wilfork walk so we have the money to sign Peppers that leaves a huge void on the DL, that we would also need to address right away.

Out of the players you named Wilfork is by far the most valuable player. He is the most valuable player on the Patriot defense. Getting him back on the team next season is the first priority in the off season. After that then you can start worrying about the second tier players like Ghost, Mankins, Watson, Bodden and Faulk. Out of those guys I think Faulk is a sure thing coming back. Bodden and Mankins will most likely be back as well. Watson I am not so sure about. I could see him wanting to play somewhere where he would be catching more passes instead of blocking

Just curious to know what makes you think Bodden will most likely be back next season? Unless he and the Pats could strike a long term deal he is gone since he cannot be franchised, even if we could franchise him it would more than likely be placed on Wilfork then Bodden.

 

[The Dynasty]

Just curious to know what makes you think Bodden will most likely be back next season? Unless he and the Pats could strike a long term deal he is gone since he cannot be franchised, even if we could franchise him it would more than likely be placed on Wilfork then Bodden.

I think that this season Bodden proved that he could be a quality corner in the NFL and the Pats should resign him. He was brought in this past season to show them what he could do, and he proved that he can get the job done. The Pats probably see him as apart of their secondary for the coming years and will try and get a deal done. Bodden wont be demanding too much money so I dont think it would be too difficult of a deal to get done.

 

[mayoclinic]

I think that this season Bodden proved that he could be a quality corner in the NFL and the Pats should resign him. He was brought in this past season to show them what he could do, and he proved that he can get the job done. The Pats probably see him as apart of their secondary for the coming years and will try and get a deal done. Bodden wont be demanding too much money so I dont think it would be too difficult of a deal to get done.

That's a very optimistic view. I hope you're correct, but I wouldn't count on it. I think the odds are that we will re-sign Bodden, but I expect it to be a close thing. I'm expecting it to cost about what you propose spending on Wilfork, and for Wilfork to cost considerably more.

 

[slash83]

That's a very optimistic view. I hope you're correct, but I wouldn't count on it. I think the odds are that we will re-sign Bodden, but I expect it to be a close thing. I'm expecting it to cost about what you propose spending on Wilfork, and for Wilfork to cost considerably more.

Besides Wilfork, Booden is the last player I wanna see go.

 

[The Dynasty]

That's a very optimistic view. I hope you're correct, but I wouldn't count on it. I think the odds are that we will re-sign Bodden, but I expect it to be a close thing. I'm expecting it to cost about what you propose spending on Wilfork, and for Wilfork to cost considerably more.

If Bodden is asking 4 years, $27 million, then I honestly dont think he is worth it. It isnt like he is a shut down corner, he is a quality NFL CB. How could he go from making the league minimum $750,000 to $7 million per year?

 

[mayoclinic]

If Bodden is asking 4 years, $27 million, then I honestly dont think he is worth it. It isnt like he is a shut down corner, he is a quality NFL CB. How could he go from making the league minimum $750,000 to $7 million per year?

Your facts are off.

1. Bodden didn't make league minimum $750K last year. He made around $2.25M last year. And he specifically chose to sign a 1 year contract with a "no franchise" clause because he couldn't get what he considered to be adequate value on a long-term deal, and decided to "prove his worth". Having proven his worth, he now wants to be adequately paid.

New England Patriots Player Profile: Leigh Bodden

2. Bodden isn't a shut down corner by any means, but he is, as you say, a "quality NFL CB". And the going rate for "quality NFL CB"'s is around $6-7M/year. Jabari Greer got 4 years at $24M from New Orleans last year. Dominique Foxworth got 4 years at $28M from Baltimore. Neither of those guys is a "shut down corner" by any means. Asante Samuel, who is not a "shut down corner" but who is a terrific ball hawk, got 6 years at $57M. Terrance Newman got 6 years at $50M from Dallas. Nnamdi Asomugha got 3 years at $45M from Oakland. So the price for anything approaching a "shut down" CB increases considerably.

That's the market value. The Pats may not choose to pay it, but someone else will. Quality NFL CBs don't grow on trees.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'd give big money to Peppers over Wilfork. The NFL is all about 3rd down and Peppers is on the field on 3rd down.

Peppers is useless on 3rd and 1. Wilfork helps your team avoid 3rd and 1.

Peppers will get the glory, and Peppers will get more money. Wilfork is the better player and the more important player to have on the team.

 

[Teenuh]

Besides Wilfork, Booden is the last player I wanna see go.

I'm disappointed that everyone seems to have missed how valuable Kevin Faulk has been to the franchise. Whenever we need a 3rd down conversion, who do we usually go to? And who usually gets it for us? Faulk has been a big reason why our offense has been successful.