Why isn’t anyone talking about Maroney’s fumble?

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

Re: Why Isn’t Anyone Talking About Maroney’s Fumble?

His fumble DID NOT cost us teh game. there were 10 other things that cost the game before Maroney's fumble. What about Brady's bonehead interception?

Brady's pick was also huge, but he was at the 30 and underthrew a receiver in the end zone.

Maroney was at the 1 and couldn't get in or even hang to the ball!

Besides, Brady gets much more slack in my book than Maroney, especially with the kind of day he had. Brady and Moss were on fire!

Maroney carried 13 times for 31 yards in a key game as the featured back!

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

Re: Why Isn’t Anyone Talking About Maroney’s Fumble?

The fumble isn't being talked about because we got 7pt on the next drive after the Welker run back... So we got those 7 points anyways (especially since the colts went 3-out (IIRC) after that fumble. (and there isn't much you can do when someone puts their hat on the ball as you're jumping)

What killed us was the phantom PI call for 31 yards that marched Indy down the field for them, and a botched 4th and 2 call in which we got a bad spot that we couldn't challenge.

How does that math work? We would have had 3 or 7 PLUS whatever we got after Welker's return!

One does not negate the other!

 

[Armen Da Pats Fan]

Re: Why Isn’t Anyone Talking About Maroney’s Fumble?

You don't post much but i remember your one of the biggest Maroney haters here, so theres definitely an agenda behind this. I can't remember the last time LOMO fumbled, and he wasn't the only one to turn the ball over.

I make no bones about my dislike for Maroney, but I will also say I keep hoping the kid will prove me wrong and he just can't seem to do it, can he?

 

[reflexblue]

Re: Why Isn’t Anyone Talking About Maroney’s Fumble?

I make no bones about my dislike for Maroney, but I will also say I keep hoping the kid will prove me wrong and he just can't seem to do it, can he?

Prove you wrong..he has a 4+ yrd per average, and has only fumbled twice in his carrer he already has proved you wrong.

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

Re: Why Isn’t Anyone Talking About Maroney’s Fumble?

How does that math work? We would have had 3 or 7 PLUS whatever we got after Welker's return!

One does not negate the other!

No. Football is such a strategy- and situationally-driven game that nobody has a freaking clue what would have happened if the Pats scored on Maroney's fumble. With a larger defecit, it's more than likely the Colts call a completely different sequence of plays that never result in a 3-and-out and Welker's awesome return. Maybe the Pats start playing prevent sooner rather than later. Who knows?

All we have to go on is what actually happened which was:

1. Maroney fumbles/touchback
2. Colts go 3-and-out/punt
3. Welker returns punt inside 10yd line
4. Pats score TD

More or less a wash in the grand scheme of things, IMO. YMMV.

Regards,
Chris

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Why Isn’t Anyone Talking About Maroney’s Fumble?

How does that math work? We would have had 3 or 7 PLUS whatever we got after Welker's return!

One does not negate the other!

One absolutely negates the other. If the Pats scored instead of turning the ball over one the one. Instead of the Colts getting the ball back on the 20, who knows where they would have gotten it back. Also, the Colts might have run different plays with different results being down 13 at that point. That means they might not have punted to Welker at that point. Also, even if they did punt to Welker, their coverage probably would have been different and Welker might have gotten ten yards instead of 69 yards.

Once one events changes in a game, the entire rest of the game would change too. All the scenarios would be different. There is no guarantee if Maroney scored that the Pats score again. There is no guarantee that the Colts don't win this game easier than they did too. People assume that Maroney's the difference between a 35-34 loss and a 41-35 win. There are no guarantees of that.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Why Isn’t Anyone Talking About Maroney’s Fumble?

Brady's pick was also huge, but he was at the 30 and underthrew a receiver in the end zone.

Maroney was at the 1 and couldn't get in or even hang to the ball!

Besides, Brady gets much more slack in my book than Maroney, especially with the kind of day he had. Brady and Moss were on fire!

Maroney carried 13 times for 31 yards in a key game as the featured back!

That's not entirely Maroney's doing. More like a philosophical decision. They went back to the run with Maroney early and set up play action, and again later in one series and it was working. Then they moved on. We needed 2 yards on 3rd and/or 4th down and threw a short sideline pass to Welker that was almost a pick 6 and would have potentially stopped the clock even if completed short of the sticks, followed by a 3 yard pass to Faulk just outside the sticks, following burning their final time out to discuss a decision they'd supposedly already made, that he bobbled just long enough to get pushed back and downed a yard short of the sticks. That set of circumstances was set up with a draw play to Faulk out of the shotgun that got stuffed on first down after a TO on the heels of a change of posession time out following a touchback...

Maroney's fumble, followed shortly by a Colts punt Welker returned to the 6 allowing for a Moss TD, was the least of their problems. They went 3 and out on the first series, they allowed two drives to stall and settled for FG's, they failed to score coming out of halftime, they played prevent defense down the stretch and allowed Manning to score two TD's in less than 4 minutes total...they went for it on 4th and 2 from their own 28 with 2 minutes remaining in the game...and failed.

 

[bobgeorge]

Re: Why Isn’t Anyone Talking About Maroney’s Fumble?

Sorry to disagree with some of you, but Maroney's fumble DID help lose the game, and both my postgame articles reflect that thought.

If Maroney scores, and if the Pats get at least a FG instead of the Brady pick (the ball was thrown at the Colt 33), we have a 41-14 lead in the fourth quarter after the Moss touchdown. You then get a different complexion in the fourth quarter and Manning doesn't bring his team back from that far down.

Never mind that the Colts scored zero points off the turnovers. The sad fact is that those turnovers cost us at least seven points, most likely ten points and potentially 14 points. When you lose by one in the end, mistakes like these are magnified a thousand fold.

As I said in my postgame articles, it never should have come down to that fourth and two call. The Patriots should have had the game solidly in hand well before then.

Yes, we scored 34, but we needed 36. Turnovers did us in a lot worse than some controversial call did.

OBTW I punt the ball, but I also submit the result would have been the same. Our defense was gassed by then.

Bob G

 

[Patspsycho]

Re: Why Isn’t Anyone Talking About Maroney’s Fumble?

Sorry to disagree with some of you, but Maroney's fumble DID help lose the game, and both my postgame articles reflect that thought.

If Maroney scores, and if the Pats get at least a FG instead of the Brady pick (the ball was thrown at the Colt 33), we have a 41-14 lead in the fourth quarter after the Moss touchdown. You then get a different complexion in the fourth quarter and Manning doesn't bring his team back from that far down.

Never mind that the Colts scored zero points off the turnovers. The sad fact is that those turnovers cost us at least seven points, most likely ten points and potentially 14 points. When you lose by one in the end, mistakes like these are magnified a thousand fold.

As I said in my postgame articles, it never should have come down to that fourth and two call. The Patriots should have had the game solidly in hand well before then.

Yes, we scored 34, but we needed 36. Turnovers did us in a lot worse than some controversial call did.

OBTW I punt the ball, but I also submit the result would have been the same. Our defense was gassed by then.

Bob G

It's very easy for posters to point to the Maroney fumble as a game-changer because it's a very visual event.

But the reality is we left 21 points and more out there and those were not visual, except for the Brady interception.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Why Isn’t Anyone Talking About Maroney’s Fumble?

Sorry to disagree with some of you, but Maroney's fumble DID help lose the game, and both my postgame articles reflect that thought.

If Maroney scores, and if the Pats get at least a FG instead of the Brady pick (the ball was thrown at the Colt 33), we have a 41-14 lead in the fourth quarter after the Moss touchdown. You then get a different complexion in the fourth quarter and Manning doesn't bring his team back from that far down.

Never mind that the Colts scored zero points off the turnovers. The sad fact is that those turnovers cost us at least seven points, most likely ten points and potentially 14 points. When you lose by one in the end, mistakes like these are magnified a thousand fold.

As I said in my postgame articles, it never should have come down to that fourth and two call. The Patriots should have had the game solidly in hand well before then.

Yes, we scored 34, but we needed 36. Turnovers did us in a lot worse than some controversial call did.

OBTW I punt the ball, but I also submit the result would have been the same. Our defense was gassed by then.

Bob G

1.) The only potentially significant impact of Maroney's fumble was psychological, because of what happened in the ensuing failed Colts drive and the punt return. I'm a big believer in the impact of the psyche on athletes but, after the Welker return and the subsequent score, anyone (besides possibly Maroney) who was still down because of Maroney's fumble is someone who needs to go to a sports shrink.

2.) If the defense was gassed, where are all the pundits slamming Belichick for the trade of Seymour? If the defense was really that gassed, then not having Seymour may just have cost this team home field advantage or a bye week come playoff time.

3.) Given that the "controversial call" would have resulted in a definite Patriots win had it been made properly, to claim that any turnover in the game did more to do in the team is a completely inaccurate statement. If the call is made correctly, it's game over. You're essentially making the same flawed argument that was made against the Chargers after they got hosed by the Hoculi call. No matter what the game "should" have come down to, it DID come down to that blown call.

No blown call = Patriots win

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

Re: Why Isn’t Anyone Talking About Maroney’s Fumble?

Sorry to disagree with some of you, but Maroney's fumble DID help lose the game, and both my postgame articles reflect that thought.

If Maroney scores, and if the Pats get at least a FG instead of the Brady pick (the ball was thrown at the Colt 33), we have a 41-14 lead in the fourth quarter after the Moss touchdown. You then get a different complexion in the fourth quarter and Manning doesn't bring his team back from that far down.

The Moss TD was set up by a great Welker punt return that followed the Colts' 3-and-out immediately after Maroney's fumble. I highly doubt that sequence plays out without the fumble, so you cannot automatically score Maroney's TD and Moss's.

Regards,
Chris

 

[ausbacker]

Re: Why Isn’t Anyone Talking About Maroney’s Fumble?

1.) The only potentially significant impact of Maroney's fumble was psychological, because of what happened in the ensuing failed Colts drive and the punt return. I'm a big believer in the impact of the psyche on athletes but, after the Welker return and the subsequent score, anyone (besides possibly Maroney) who was still down because of Maroney's fumble is someone who needs to go to a sports shrink.

2.) If the defense was gassed, where are all the pundits slamming Belichick for the trade of Seymour? If the defense was really that gassed, then not having Seymour may just have cost this team home field advantage or a bye week come playoff time.

3.) Given that the "controversial call" would have resulted in a definite Patriots win had it been made properly, to claim that any turnover in the game did more to do in the team is a completely inaccurate statement. If the call is made correctly, it's game over. You're essentially making the same flawed argument that was made against the Chargers after they got hosed by the Hoculi call. No matter what the game "should" have come down to, it DID come down to that blown call.

No blown call = Patriots win

I wonder Deus, if Maroney's mistakes will ever be his own in your mind?

At the end of the day, the blown call or failure to convert the fourth down, Maroney's fumble, Brady's interception, a bogus PI call etc etc were all contributing factors to the Patriots loss, not just a singular event.

We lost from an almost un-loseable position. That's the entire team's fault for not executing, something which seems to be coming in vogue with the Patriots against quality opposition.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Why Isn’t Anyone Talking About Maroney’s Fumble?

I wonder Deus, if Maroney's mistakes will ever be his own in your mind?

At the end of the day, the blown call or failure to convert the fourth down, Maroney's fumble, Brady's interception, a bogus PI call etc etc were all contributing factors to the Patriots loss, not just a singular event.

We lost from an almost un-loseable position. That's the entire team's fault for not executing.

I wonder, Ausbacker, if I've claimed that Maroney didn't fumble, or that it didn't cost a touchdown on that specific drive....?

No, I haven't. However, the Colts failed to score, Welker had a great return, and the Patriots opened up the lead anyway.

 

[ausbacker]

Re: Why isn’t anyone talking about Maroney’s fumble?

1.) The only potentially significant impact of Maroney's fumble was psychological, because of what happened in the ensuing failed Colts drive and the punt return.

I wonder, Ausbacker, if I've claimed that Maroney didn't fumble, or that it didn't cost a touchdown on that specific drive....?

No, I haven't. However, the Colts failed to score, Welker had a great return, and the Patriots opened up the lead anyway.

Your words.. only potentially significant impact of Maroney's fumble was psychological.

No Deus, the impact on the outcome of the game was far more than merely a psychological one. 3 points, 6 points or 7 points from that drive results in an even larger lead, much the same as Brady's interception does. That results in 7-2 to 8-1 versus 6-3 and 9-0.

That's far more than merely psychological in the world I live in.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Why isn’t anyone talking about Maroney’s fumble?

Your words.. only potentially significant impact of Maroney's fumble was psychological.

No Deus, the impact on the outcome of the game was far more than merely a psychological one. 3 points, 6 points or 7 points from that drive results in an even larger lead, much the same as Brady's interception does. That results in 7-2 to 8-1 versus 6-3 and 9-0.

That's far more than merely psychological in the world I live in.

No, there was no such provable impact. The game changed the moment Maroney fumbled the ball. And, unless they were going for 2 after the Maroney score, there were no more points lost than were made up for by the Welker return and subsequent score. The points that were 'lost' were 'found'.

Furthermore, I'm still trying to figure out how you go from your assertion here to your claim that I wasn't considering Maroney's mistake to be his own.

 

[ausbacker]

Re: Why isn’t anyone talking about Maroney’s fumble?

No, there was no such provable impact. The game changed the moment Maroney fumbled the ball. And, unless they were going for 2 after the Maroney score, there were no more points lost than were made up for by the Welker return and subsequent score. The points that were 'lost' were 'found'.

I don't agree with you.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Why isn’t anyone talking about Maroney’s fumble?

I don't agree with you.

That's your privilege.

 

[ausbacker]

Re: Why isn’t anyone talking about Maroney’s fumble?

That's your privilege.

You lost my interest in your point of view with your justification of the interception. Brady throws the interception countered with Manning throwing the interception countered by Maroney fumbling the ball, giving the ball back to the Colts going 3 and out and a Patriots TD to Moss countered with another Colts TD.

There's potentially 10-14 points sacrificed in that series of events alone. Don't be foolish to state otherwise.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Why isn’t anyone talking about Maroney’s fumble?

You lost my interest in your point of view with your justification of the interception. Brady throws the interception countered with Manning throwing the interception countered by Maroney fumbling the ball, giving the ball back to the Colts going 3 and out and a Patriots TD to Moss countered with another Colts TD.

There's potentially 10-14 points sacrificed in that series of events alone. Don't be foolish to state otherwise.

Where did I justify the interception? I'm not sure I've commented on it one way or the other on this board.

 

[ausbacker]

Re: Why isn’t anyone talking about Maroney’s fumble?

Where did I justify the interception? I'm not sure I've commented on it one way or the other on this board.

My mistake, I meant fumble.