OT (I think): Feds investigating Roger Goodell and Troy Vincent

[upstater1]

Excuse me for not joining the mob mentality yet but I don't think anything happens to Goodell. About the only way I see him being ousted is if he did something that openly cost the league big money(tens of millions of dollars) and even then it had to be a major rip off and media black eye to get enough votes to fire him.

The investigation is more on Vincent than Goodell, if anyone is to be in trouble with the law or face lawsuits it would be him and not Goodell.

How did you come to this conclusion? if the NFL (i.e. Goodell) is secretly meeting with union members, providing favors, so that they can undermine the elected union head, that effectively undermines the union. The players gain by becoming powerful in the union, while the NFL gains by not only gaining access to information, but by having their preferred "stooges" in the union's hierarchy.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Excuse me for not joining the mob mentality yet but I don't think anything happens to Goodell. About the only way I see him being ousted is if he did something that openly cost the league big money(tens of millions of dollars) and even then it had to be a major rip off and media black eye to get enough votes to fire him.

The investigation is more on Vincent than Goodell, if anyone is to be in trouble with the law or face lawsuits it would be him and not Goodell.

If the FBI is investigating, then that's not only a PR quagmire, but it also potentially jeopardizes the antitrust exemption. Not to mention that it makes it that much more difficult to agree to a new CBA. Looks like others just aren't taking the potential ramifications of this nearly as lightly as you are.

 

[spacecrime]

Hey Rog, look up karma and schadenfreude..........from your buddies in New England and in Patriot Nation

Goodell is pompous and authoritarian, but hardly practices schadenfreude. That is what these posts are doing, which is bad karma for us, not Roger. We are the ones who have to restore karma.

 

[signbabybrady]

.

Bellachick- start saving up for college that kid is going ivy league.

 

[efin98]

If the FBI is investigating, then that's not only a PR quagmire, but it also potentially jeopardizes the antitrust exemption. Not to mention that it makes it that much more difficult to agree to a new CBA. Looks like others just aren't taking the potential ramifications of this nearly as lightly as you are.

The talk of the anti-trust exemption is a red herring and would be more like a vendetta than action as a Congressman's daughter is at the center of the claims.

NFLPA accused of trying to collude with NFL - NFL - SI.com

NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said the league has not seen the lawsuit, but noted it's common for Goodell to meet with players and union executives, including Vincent.

"Not surprisingly, commissioner Goodell and other NFL executives had regular contact over many years with Gene Upshaw and other union executives, including Troy Vincent, on a wide range of matters," Aiello said. "These meetings included both active and retired players."

Aiello noted that Goodell has an open-door policy with players. He recently met with members of the Jets and Redskins and told them that players can contact him whenever they want.

Read more: NFLPA accused of trying to collude with NFL - NFL - SI.com

Him meeting with Vincent was nothing out of the ordinary, and the article sheds the woman making the accusation appear to be vindictive of Vincent.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/02/sports/football/02nfl.html

This article sheds her in a similar light, with an axe to grind against the union for firing her hence the accusations in her lawsuit.

 

[DaBruinz]

Ok. Read the article and I am having a hard time understanding this supposed collusion all you are getting your knickers in a wad over. In all honesty, these supposed secret meetings happened even before Upshaw died. And its clear that the incoming Exec. Director was informed of them, otherwise he'd have no merit to go to the Justice Department and try and get the investigation ended.

On one side, you have Vincent (who the NFLPA Pres at the time of the meeting and was supposedly being groomed by Upshaw), A team rep, and a NFLPA Committee Rep and on the other side you have Goodell and an owner.

Now, you have this 3rd person who claims that she found out about these "secret meetings" while working for Upshaw. And that she has emails that supposedly went from Vincent to Goodell and were sent without Upshaw's consent.

Well, we only have her word that it was without Upshaw's consent. There is no time line given as to when those emails were sent. Whether it was before or after Upshaw's passing or before or after Vincent was removed as the NFLPA President. If they were sent after Vincent was no longer the NFLPA President, then it doesn't matter if he sent them because he'd have no authority to back up anything in them.

Union people talk about Union business with Management all the time. They don't need to inform the Union they are doing so because Management knows that the person can't speak for the Union and nothing is binding until such time as the Union has voted on it.

People are letting their hatred of Goodell to exaggerate the reality of the situation.

Personally, I can fully understand why she might have been fired and I can understand why some Union members may have "harassed her." She sounds like an uppity person who thought that she was more in the know than she was and that she actually meant something..

 

[DaBruinz]

How did you come to this conclusion? if the NFL (i.e. Goodell) is secretly meeting with union members, providing favors, so that they can undermine the elected union head, that effectively undermines the union. The players gain by becoming powerful in the union, while the NFL gains by not only gaining access to information, but by having their preferred "stooges" in the union's hierarchy.

Where do you get that Goodell was providing favors? How do you know the meetings were secret? You only have one person's claim that they were.

All the other stuff is your pure, unsubstantiated, speculation based on this bimbo's lawsuit..

 

[patchick]

All the other stuff is your pure, unsubstantiated, speculation based on this bimbo's lawsuit..

Huh? You're skeptical about a federal labor law investigation, so the union human resources director is a "bimbo"? And "uppity" to boot?

I have no clue whether any wrongdoing actually happened, and I strongly suspect nobody else here does either. But assuming the Feds really are investigating, there are obviously allegations that go beyond an "open-door policy." The union was mired in infighting and chaos for quite a while. It's not totally implausible that one faction would have arranged "quiet" meetings with Goodell and attempted to conduct business on the NFLPA's behalf. If so, that's a major no-no. And if Goodell played along, he'd be in trouble with labor law.

Since we don't actually know the facts, though, I'll just content myself with calling Vincent and Goodell a couple of skanky ho's.

 

[Bella*chick]

Huh? You're skeptical about a federal labor law investigation, so the union human resources director is a "bimbo"? And "uppity" to boot?

I have no clue whether any wrongdoing actually happened, and I strongly suspect nobody else here does either. But assuming the Feds really are investigating, there are obviously allegations that go beyond an "open-door policy." The union was mired in infighting and chaos for quite a while. It's not totally implausible that one faction would have arranged "quiet" meetings with Goodell and attempted to conduct business on the NFLPA's behalf. If so, that's a major no-no. And if Goodell played along, he'd be in trouble with labor law.

Since we don't actually know the facts, though, I'll just content myself with calling Vincent and Goodell a couple of skanky ho's.

I think I may love you.

 

[shmessy]

Huh? You're skeptical about a federal labor law investigation, so the union human resources director is a "bimbo"? And "uppity" to boot?

I have no clue whether any wrongdoing actually happened, and I strongly suspect nobody else here does either. But assuming the Feds really are investigating, there are obviously allegations that go beyond an "open-door policy." The union was mired in infighting and chaos for quite a while. It's not totally implausible that one faction would have arranged "quiet" meetings with Goodell and attempted to conduct business on the NFLPA's behalf. If so, that's a major no-no. And if Goodell played along, he'd be in trouble with labor law.

Since we don't actually know the facts, though, I'll just content myself with calling Vincent and Goodell a couple of skanky ho's.

Right on, Chick.

 

[DaBruinz]

Huh? You're skeptical about a federal labor law investigation, so the union human resources director is a "bimbo"? And "uppity" to boot?

Yes. I am skeptical about a Federal Labor Law Investigation initiated by an "uppity bimbo." Particularly one that is supposedly the Director of Human Resources. Why do I say this? Because if you look at the information provided, a lot of it is clearly heresay on her part and can no longer be verified by the one person who could answer the questions. And that was Gene Upshaw.

I have no clue whether any wrongdoing actually happened, and I strongly suspect nobody else here does either. But assuming the Feds really are investigating, there are obviously allegations that go beyond an "open-door policy." The union was mired in infighting and chaos for quite a while. It's not totally implausible that one faction would have arranged "quiet" meetings with Goodell and attempted to conduct business on the NFLPA's behalf. If so, that's a major no-no. And if Goodell played along, he'd be in trouble with labor law.

Since we don't actually know the facts, though, I'll just content myself with calling Vincent and Goodell a couple of skanky ho's.

Goodell is in NO trouble what so ever. None. There isn't anything in the labor laws that says he can't have discussions with members of the Union at any point in time. Particularly if they approach him. And whether or not they mis-represented themselves is not Goodell's fault. He knows that nothing stated in those meetings is binding.

Instead of getting all bent out of shape because the person is a woman, why don't you get bent out of shape about the fact that its all here say on her part (based on the article) and that there are way too many holes in what she says. Holes that you could fly a C-17 Cargolifter through.

As for allegations that go beyond the "open door policy" we again only have the word of a person who has an axe to grind.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

Goodell is in NO trouble what so ever. None. There isn't anything in the labor laws that says he can't have discussions with members of the Union at any point in time. Particularly if they approach him. And whether or not they mis-represented themselves is not Goodell's fault. He knows that nothing stated in those meetings is binding.

I'm not so sure about that. From the preamble of the CBA, it lists the NFLPA as the sole bargaining agent of the players. Goodell can certainly make an argument that the union president represents the NFLPA versus an individual player but we need somebody with labor law experience to give us the correct interpretation..... Uless there is something in the NFLPA bylaws that says only the executive director Upshaw or Smith) can conduct negotiations.
>>>>>>
This Agreement, which is the product of bona fide, arm’s length collective bargaining, is made and entered
into as of the 8th day of March, 2006, in accordance with the provisions of the National Labor Relations Act, as
amended, by and between the National Football League Management Council (“Management Council” or
“NFLMC”), which is recognized as the sole and exclusive bargaining representative of present and future
employer member Clubs of the National Football League (“NFL” or “League”), and the National Football
League Players Association (“NFLPA”), which is recognized as the sole and exclusive bargaining
representative of present and future employee players in the NFL in a bargaining unit described as follows:>>>>>>>


EDIT http://www.scribd.com/doc/7654176/NFLPA-Constitution

Section 5.07 on lists executive committee with NFLPA president as part of committee as sole negotiator .

 

[upstater1]

Where do you get that Goodell was providing favors? How do you know the meetings were secret? You only have one person's claim that they were.

All the other stuff is your pure, unsubstantiated, speculation based on this bimbo's lawsuit..

God forbid there would be speculation based on one source's claims on this board. That would destroy the board to cite a source. Thank God that never happens here. I apologize.

 

[spacecrime]

Union people talk about Union business with Management all the time. They don't need to inform the Union they are doing.

Nope......

 

[spacecrime]

Goodell is in NO trouble what so ever. None. There isn't anything in the labor laws that says he can't have discussions with members of the Union at any point in time.

As long as they don't discuss Union business. He cannot discuss anything about the Union or anyting about the Union agreement with anyone but a union-authorized person. Where are you getting your information?

 

[patchick]

Yes. I am skeptical about a Federal Labor Law Investigation initiated by an "uppity bimbo." Particularly one that is supposedly the Director of Human Resources.

...

Instead of getting all bent out of shape because the person is a woman

Sorry, I get it now. "Uppity bimbo" wasn't intended as an insult; it was just your synonym for "woman." My apologies. So back to the matter at hand...


I think we have to distinguish between the lawsuit and the investigation. As far as I can tell, the lawsuit is essentially a whistle-blower case. The HR director alleges that she was fired in retaliation for cooperating with a federal investigation.

The existence of that investigation was revealed by the filing of the lawsuit. But nothing I've read sheds any light at all on who or what triggered the investigation. IOW, Moran happens to be our one window onto the investigation, but that doesn't mean she's behind the whole thing or even that the part she's concerned with is central to it.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

Sorry, I get it now. "Uppity bimbo" wasn't intended as an insult; it was just your synonym for "woman." My apologies. So back to the matter at hand...


I think we have to distinguish between the lawsuit and the investigation. As far as I can tell, the lawsuit is essentially a whistle-blower case. The HR director alleges that she was fired in retaliation for cooperating with a federal investigation.

The existence of that investigation was revealed by the filing of the lawsuit. But nothing I've read sheds any light at all on who or what triggered the investigation. IOW, Moran happens to be our one window onto the investigation, but that doesn't mean she's behind the whole thing or even that the part she's concerned with is central to it.

I don't know who just kicked DaBruinz's ass more, you, or DaBruinz himself. Either way, you made some excellent points in the previous post as well.

 

[Fixit]

The only thing that really matters is what Tony Dungy thinks about it.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Sorry, I get it now. "Uppity bimbo" wasn't intended as an insult; it was just your synonym for "woman." My apologies. So back to the matter at hand...


I think we have to distinguish between the lawsuit and the investigation. As far as I can tell, the lawsuit is essentially a whistle-blower case. The HR director alleges that she was fired in retaliation for cooperating with a federal investigation.

The existence of that investigation was revealed by the filing of the lawsuit. But nothing I've read sheds any light at all on who or what triggered the investigation. IOW, Moran happens to be our one window onto the investigation, but that doesn't mean she's behind the whole thing or even that the part she's concerned with is central to it.

There were rumors out there after Gene died that Moran was involved in an effort to kill Vincent's chances at succession and in fact drive the selection process towards a new hand picked successor who would insure she retained her job. Her dad the congressman was supposedly being used to further that agenda. That is likely the nexus of an investigation. It was speculated at the time that if new blood took over the NFLPA she would be out of a job in part for drawing the feds into NFL business as a means to an end. Consolidating Power via connections in government in opposition to a perceived changing of the guard power grab. Hmm... One man's whistle blower is another man's disgruntled employee.

 

[NEGoldenAge]

The only thing that really matters is what Tony Dungy thinks about it.

I wonder if Dungy will ask Goodell or Vincent if collusion was fun?