Early impressions

[billdog3484]

Yes Martha, that was a 4-3. BB in his presser mentioned that they used it most of the time. They wanted to see some things in live action. To me it looked like they got decent pressure with it, but the run defense wasn't as strong.

i like the idea of using the 4-3. we have great d lineman. we brought D Burgess to be an OLB, but if we can utilize him in a 4-3 at DE with seymour, wilfork, warren, brace and Green filling out the other three spots, thats not a bad front 4. i think itd be successful

 

[italia44]

It is now almost evident that Brady and Moss make Welker look better even though he is a great player.

With screens and RB redirections, our 4 DL suffer.

I thought Burg was 260+ pounds. looks smaller than that. May be heavy boned.

Meriweather is the MAN!! He blitz very well.

Wilhite played better but Wheatley is essentially a rookie.

It seems there is no hole when Maroney runs but there are holes when other run. I just have to blame Maroney because I doubt the OL decides not to block for him.

Smith was almost invisible to me. Hope we don't let Watson go.

you made some good points here.
!. Don't get too excited about the 4-3.......We did it against philly in the SB and I think this alignment had more to do with McNabb than a future change.A 4-3 is susceptible to screens,draws,mis-directions and quick hitches...........egads!...that's why the Patriots are the best at......drum roll......screens,draws,hitches,etc,etc against 4-3 teams(except the Giants....ouch!)

2.Wheatley is essentially still a rookie........that hitch pass to Macklin,who's is going to turn out to be the best WR in this draft.......I guarantee you,Asante Samuel,on his best day,would not have made that tackle....also,no LB or safety rotated over to that zone.

3.James Sanders does exactly what BB wants:be in position,make solid tackles.A strong safety in this defense makes up for poor LB coverage than running wild and blowing up plays.It's just not what BB wants from a safety.

Maroney....I don't know,I didn't see many holes tonite.The Pats are a left-handed team.They love to run to the strong side,over Mankins,Light and the TE.To me,Maroney is best as an I-back,which is best at the toss-sweep to the right.With the Pats' spread offense,the I formation is out of the question.......however,watch Maroney whwn Brady drops to pass and LoMo swings to the right.....this is open all-day and all-nite.If you think Kevin Faulk is dangerous on this play,Maroney would be devastating.

.....jusy my opinion,I could be wrong.

 

[DaBruinz]

I'm glad they didn't look that good, though its hard to gauge a game where almost a third of the players won't be there in 3 weeks.

The 1st string offense looking good. The defense, as a whole, was ok. But, as you pointed out, they used the 4-3 primarily..

If they had given Julian Edelman #83 instead of #11, I doubt anyone would have known that Welker missed the game. It kind of makes me wonder if ANY slot WR in THAT offense, with THAT QB couldn't grab 100 balls a season.

Edelman was getting open and making the catches.. And he has some nice runs afterwards.. And he was like a sponge, always talking to Brady after each series...

Stilll waiting for Joey Galloway to do something that makes me go WOW....or even go Nice.

I agree...

Eugene Chung showed me more in this one game, than he showed me in the 7 practices I went to.

Unless we went back in time to 1992, I believe you mean Patrick Chung.

Brandon Merriweather is ready to take it to the next level. James Sanders is not.

You must have watched a different game because Sanders did very well out there.. Laying the lumber on several occasions.

Andrew Walter was....underwhelming. I'm not sure how much of that was his fault. They didn't let him pass much, and the running game sucked. Did Fred Taylor get any touches, I don't recall him getting the ball?

Not sure what you expected from Walter, but considering the fact that he has only been with the team a weak, he showed good poise, good arm strength, good decision making on his throws.

Taylor didn't play tonight as far as I know.

I get the feeling that Alex Smith is losing in the TE battle.

What makes you say this?

KO coverage looked good. Punt coverage sucked

There is no way to truly tell what the kick coverage or punt coverage units will do during the regular season because you have guys currently out there who won't be on the team...

Jay Feely is NOT a bad QB, which makes me wonder why the Eagles took on Vick. Don't they have their QB of the future in Kevin Kolb, and Feely as #3 is better than a lot of team's #2. Where does Vick fit in? I'd rather have Feely than Walter.

Vick isn't a QB. I don't understand why people insist on thinking that he is. He's a RB who happens to have good arm strength.. That's it..

As for Walter, the fact you are being so brutal on him makes no sense and is uncharacteristic of you. Normally you'd, take into consideration the fact that he's only been with the team a week..

McNab can't complain about not having any WRs anymore. It looks like the Eages have some good ones now.[/quote[ Other than DeSean Jackson and Maclin, McNabb has had good WRs.. Avant and Baskett have been there for 3 years now. And they brought in Kevin Curtis last year. They had other good WRs as well.. The problem has always been McNabb more than his receivers.

 

[N.Eman]

Chung, meriweather, butler, all athletic players. I got a strong feeling they'll get better and better as the preseason ends, and the season starts. Vollmer looked awesome at LT. Just a big pass block and run block at the line. Could he plug the whole at RT, which we had the past 2 seasons? 1 more thing, just damn glad we got out with no injuries. Coach said he wants to win on this 2009 preseason, what a way to start and shuffle players (what he does best) to win.

 

[DaBruinz]

As I said about Watson, great players make an impact, not-so-great players get a lot of excuses made for them. I'm as tired of the excuses for Maroney as I am for Watson. Journeyman Sammy Morris looked better (and not just tonight, but into last season). "Who dat?" Benjarvus Green-Ellis looked better (and not just tonight, but into last season). Lamont Jordan, we hardly knew ye... he looked better. But it's never Maroney's fault.

Morris and BJGE looked better because of the quality of players they were running against. But god forbid you take that into consideration. And if you go back to last year and look at what teams Morris did well against, you'll seen something glaring..

]Maroney's YPC might be decent, but it's not just that number, it's how you get it. Personally, I don't want 2, 0, -2, 1, and then maybe 30. I want consistency, first-down conversions, and N-S downhill running. He just doesn't LOOK good, and I'm tired of seeing the Pats have to work their offense out of 2nd-and-13 because Maroney did nothing on the first run; it's always the same, it seems... 1st-and-10, hand it to Maroney for no gain or a loss, 2nd-and-long, have to complete a great pass for almost 1st-down yardage, 3rd-and-short, use the short pass as a running game to get a new set of downs, 1st-and-10, hand it to Maroney again and watch him get stuffed. I mean, jeez, when he actually cuts into the line and gets 5, I want to cheer. Other ballcarriers manage to stumble forward for 5 but, as you point out, when Maroney gets the ball the holes suddenly vanish?

People like you overlook that Maroney very rarely loses yardage. In fact, he loses yardage far less than Morris. That's fact.. But, you keep ignoring things like that..

 

[JFK]

People like you overlook that Maroney very rarely loses yardage. In fact, he loses yardage far less than Morris. That's fact.. But, you keep ignoring things like that..

Percentage or number wise?

 

[DaBruinz]

Percentage or number wise?

Either way you look at it..
Its been posted several times that Maroney, for all the complaining people do, has more of his runs go for positive yardage than Morris.

 

[smg93]

Either way you look at it..
Its been posted several times that Maroney, for all the complaining people do, has more of his runs go for positive yardage than Morris.

That's interesting. If the stats back up the fact that more of Maroney's runs go for positive yardage than Morris, I wonder why the perception of this is the opposite to so many on here. That would include me btw, but my feeling would all be based on what I had seen from the games and not looking at the actual statistics.

 

[tombonneau]

My quick takeaway is it looks like the classic bend-don't-break D might be back. They let them move a bit there in between the 20s, but the RZ D tightened up (at least in the first half).

I think if this team can trade TDs for FGs like they did in the first half, we'll be a happy fan base in 2009.

 

[Kontradiction]

That's interesting. If the stats back up the fact that more of Maroney's runs go for positive yardage than Morris, I wonder why the perception of this is the opposite to so many on here. That would include me btw, but my feeling would all be based on what I had seen from the games and not looking at the actual statistics.

The perception comes from people that had extremely high hopes for him coming out of college and then proceeded to see him fall to the injury bug a few years in a row. The high hopes don't allow the injury bug to be used as an excuse because people are impatient (even after seeing the first few games of his career and his end to the 2007 season after getting healthy).

I've admittedly fallen victim to this syndrome on a couple of occasions. However, I'm pretty rational. There are a lot of people here who are not. It's mostly a product of the "mommy, I want it now!" generation.

 

[T-cat]

haha im probably gunna be yelled at but the two top competitions i wanted to see was CB and TE and to me for starting corners i see Bodden, Wilhite, Springs, Butler, Wheatley, Richardson and as for TE i see Baker, (suprise pick!) Thomas, Watson, Smith, Devree i would like to hear your opinions

 

[wpdougie2180]

Posted on another Pats board

Morris faces different defenses, which makes the blocking better for him. I am not halucinating, you can physically see it: the # of people on the line changes-hence why he seems to have such an easier time finding running room on certain carries.

Believe me, I HATE excuses. They KILL me. I am in law school, I want people to get to the point. But the reality is, Maroneys long run of the day was 5 yards. The play was a draw that was to be the right guard and tackle. We run them with Faulk a lot. But with Faulk, he usually has a hole. Maroney had no hole. Instead, he cut to the left before shooting up off center for 5 yards. It was a change on dime; one of those plays where a player exerts a ton of effort and athletsicm for a measly gain. They annoy the - out of me.

The facts are simple. If Maroney has to exert that much movement and skill to pick up 5 years, than CLEARLY there is a problem OUTSIDE of Maroney himself. I have the game tivod and I am rewatching it now. I will go over every Maroney carry:

1. No gain. End gets by Light, Maroney moves to right in backfield to avoid tackle for loss, runs into huge pile of men.
2. 4 yard gain. Run to the right, jerks it back upfeild. Again, looks to be expending alot of effort for short gains.
3. 4 yard gain. 3rd and 1 play, Maroney follwed lead block off right tackle before getting gangtackled.
4. 1 yard gain. Maroney to left, gang tackled almost iommeadiertly. Nobody is holding their blocks.
5. No gain. Maroney off tackle to left, gets gang-tackled about 1 yard after los, driven downhard.
6. 5 yard gain. Maroney draw to right, hole stuffed, cut it back in the backfield and shoots up in the middle of center for 5 yards. Tiny amount of running room.

Watching the replays, I cant find any problem with his vision, in fact if anythign his vision is excellent. On several occasions he is changing direction to avoid would be tacklers that arent immeadietly seen.

ON THE CONTRARY-Perefct example: the Morris 16 yard run.

-Draw to the right. ENORMOUS hole-1 cb held up by wr on the right, end driven outside by right tackle, everybody else on los driven off to the left-only person visible on the screen within atleast 4 yards of Morris is the ref standing about 8 yards ahead of him to the left. He runs through the huge hole with authority where he makes a pitiful attempt at juke and is taken down after a 16 yard gain.

If they could get Maroney THAT type of hole-Im sure itll be on NFL.COM at some point and all of you can see what I mean-he would have busted out a big run, probably a lot longer than the 16 yarder Morris put out.

Its easy to see why Maroney is so injury prine as he looks to get clocked on literally every carry. But from watching the plays, the lack of running room he has is astonishing.

I mean, excuses or no excuses, if you substitue Maroney on these plays for Morris or espec. Faulk, and we have easy 2-3 yard losses or no gains. People wonder why he is the starter, and after watching the tape its pretty freaking obvious: if they get Maroney the kind of blocking Morris and Greenellis recieved in the game on some of their carries, the results would be electric. Maroneys is getting as much out of his carries as can be expected from a first string running back, thats probably why the coaches seem to have no problem keeping him in there.

I am 100% with you on that

Do you remember the 1st run of the game? Here was my line of thought

- Hmm Maroney in the back field, can't wait to see him get the ball
- Is it a pass no, it's a hand off to Maroney! (I'm so excited)
- Why are there 3 White jerseys in our backfield WTF
- Are you kidding me? Is this sh*t going to happen this year too!
- Why is the blocking so horrible when HE gets the ball...
- Well...I may be making excuses for him...
- Let's rewind... yep... he had no room
- Dear gwd... ppl on Patsfans are going to rag on him

I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[Kontradiction]

haha im probably gunna be yelled at but the two top competitions i wanted to see was CB and TE and to me for starting corners i see Bodden, Wilhite, Springs, Butler, Wheatley, Richardson and as for TE i see Baker, (suprise pick!) Thomas, Watson, Smith, Devree i would like to hear your opinions

Did Alex Smith even play tonight? They put him on the NFL.com stat sheet with all 0's but I never once saw him out there. Baker looked great and I suspect they'll be using Thomas in a more H-Back/Fullback role this year. I didn't notice Devree once either.

Smith, when he plays, will be a pretty good tight end with Brady throwing him the ball. As of right now, I would put him (just because of what I KNOW of him) and Baker in as the top two with Watson in third. I want to see Watson play though before we trade him, should that happen.

 

[Ungeheuer]

How come nobody is talking about Myron Pryor? He looked like one of our best players tonight. The guy can really rush the passer and he looks comfortable rushing inside and even outside a little. He had a sack and two big hurries.

Chung looked very good, outstanding on ST. Butler, except for the PI, had a nice shoestring tackle and covered pretty well. Vollmer was excellent but one thing I thought was curious is that they didn't run to his side at all. Nobody came close to getting off of him -- it seems like they could have run around him every time.

I'm excited about this draft class. Kinda reminds me of the Wilson/Samuel class, just a lot of interesting players all up and down the list. Edelman looks like he could be an outstanding slot guy -- wonder how much PT he'll get, though, since I don't see him as an outside guy and Welker is going to be inside. Add Chung, Butler, Vollmer and Pryor, that's a bunch of guys to get excited about.

I didn't see much from Brace tonight. Did anyone else? And how about BUssey/Ohrnberger?

 

[Kontradiction]

How come nobody is talking about Myron Pryor? He looked like one of our best players tonight. The guy can really rush the passer and he looks comfortable rushing inside and even outside a little. He had a sack and two big hurries.

Did you see that bull rush he put on Jason Peters? I practically started cackling in my armchair.

 

[T-cat]

Did Alex Smith even play tonight? They put him on the NFL.com stat sheet with all 0's but I never once saw him out there. Baker looked great and I suspect they'll be using Thomas in a more H-Back/Fullback role this year. I didn't notice Devree once either.

Smith, when he plays, will be a pretty good tight end with Brady throwing him the ball. As of right now, I would put him (just because of what I KNOW of him) and Baker in as the top two with Watson in third. I want to see Watson play though before we trade him, should that happen.

alex smith played and he didnt get any passes to him but they were right when they said he wasnt a blocking tight end cause walter was getting rushed from alex smith's side alot and devree was the guy who got nailed on the punt return and had to use the smelling salts lol

 

[T-cat]

How come nobody is talking about Myron Pryor? He looked like one of our best players tonight. The guy can really rush the passer and he looks comfortable rushing inside and even outside a little. He had a sack and two big hurries.

ya on the eagles preseason station...thingy they said myron pryor was a ILB i was like woah i feel bad for philly fans lol

 

[patsfan-1982]

tom brady - looked good just one bad throw


maroney - looked ok just one play i did not like where he got the ball on a draw and he need it to just cut a lil to the left and run hard and he would have picked up about 10 yerd's but he just dance around and got like 1 yerd

i seen a coach on the side line tell him dont stop just run


the OL looked ok

the DL looked ok

the LB will noting made me say WOW and noting made me say oh no lol

Julian Edelman - like you said looked like wes welker with a lil more speed

Patrick Chung - blocked a FG and broke up a few pass and had some big hit's he looked realy good

Darius Butler - had a PI call on him but then came right back with a INT in the end zone

overall as a team they looked good

 

[mcsully]

IMHO Maroney's biggest weakness is his vision.. Its average at best..

He's not built for this offense.> he'd be better in a I formation or any formation where he'd follow a lead blocker..

His best runs have always been with a FB/TE infront of him..

He reminds me of Stewart from Tenn about 15 years ago.. he played for the Jags.. Strong runner but just average vision.. It hurt his game at the next level..

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Okay then:
-- Gostkowski must have been nervous because he only kicked the opening KO to the 2 yd line. He did however, put it right on the numbers for the Iggles right side, nice directional kick.
-- The Iggles essentially used a 2-1-1 wall, they must have had the correct intervals, but I've seen four man walls that were looser in the old days.
-- The 2-1-1 tried to seal the Pats left side and create a lane in the middle of the field, but Eric Alexander got down quickly and jacked the edge man up and laid him down, then forced the KR to take a wider entry angle into the lane.
-- Edelman fought through his blocker while maintaining outside contain with Wilhite holding the edge outside him, this forced the KR to try and change direction into the teeth of the coverage, before Edelman shed the block and wrapped him up.
-- It looked like the Pats tried to force the Iggles into their right side, where the teeth of the NE coverage was, but the Iggles had a nice counter using the speed of their KR. Decent return, but NE's backside coverage stayed in their lanes and kept the KR from getting into the open field.

Poor camera work on the first defensive series - per usual I guess.
-- The D-line is playing a one-gap game and immediately ran a twist with Sey crashing in from DE to draw a Double-Team and Pryor coming around behind him. McNabb tried to go deep along the sideline against Wilhite, but offensive pass interference and illegal formation calls killed the play.
-- Guyton shed a block to make the first tackle, but it wasn't like a normal NE DL effort since TBC was doing his Dwight Freeney imitation and whoever the DT on that side he was doubled out of the area code leaving Guyton to stack, shed, and stick inside a wide lane - but he got it done. Mayo got a piece before the runner was down too.
-- The Iggles tried to use their TE to clear out the LBs for the FB coming underneath, but no go as the FB took the ball 1/2 yd beyond the LOS and picked up about 5 yds before Guyton and Mayo got him.
-- Iggles 3-wide, Pats 4-3 nickel, looks like Butler came in for Wilhite who slid inside to the "star" over the slot man. Adalius & Mayo behind the line. Adalius ran with the TE and Mayo faked a blitz while spying on McNabb, he drew an OL to block him so one less for the DL. TBC drew a RB/LT double-team off the edge. The Iggles color man claims McNabb was rushed a little, TBC may have forced him to step up before he rifled the ball into the turf by the receiver's feet.
-- Punt, 38 yd kick oob.

-- 1st and 10: Pats 2-wide (Moss, Galloway), 2 TE (Baker, Thomas). Iggles run blitzed against the NE left side, Light missed a block on the DE slanting inside through the B-gap and failed to slow him for Kaczur pulling across, so Kac had to stretch to get a big enough piece of the DE to push him wide on his bee-line towards Maroney. Maroney was almost met three yds deep in the backfield, Kac getting a piece of the DE and Maroney's own sidestep kept it from being a loss of yardage. After that Maroney had nowhere to go and just got back to the LOS. Reports of his dancing on this play are pure bologna - the cheap, extra gristly kind.
-- 2nd and 10: 3-wide w/Edelman in, 1 TE. Iggles 4-2 nickel. Flanker screen to Edelman behind Galloway for 6 yds. Galloway was okay, but it wasn't a blocking clinic.
-- 3rd and 4: Five wide NE, Iggles in Dime. Decent protection, Brady released the ball on the 3 second count. He was a step behind Galloway with his timing on the pass. He also had Faulk from the slot for the first down underneath on a nice spin move to get open.
-- Punt: Nice punt just outside the numbers to the Iggles right side. I don't know who the Gunner was but he plowed through two vise men and appeared to have upset the PR as he reached and muffed the punt. The Gunner got a piece of the ball knocking it away from the PR, but the one vise man was quick to recover the ball.

-- 1st and 10: Iggles 2-wide, 2 RB offset left. Pats 6-1 heavy, Meriweather in the box outside the SLB/TE. FB dive behind Center. Meriweather looked to be the first to get to the FB, and it's hard to see, but it looks like the Iggles tried to combo Pryor with the C/LG and he rode with the C's push and slid underneath the LG to join Meriweather in holding this to a 3 yd gain, Vince came over from the other DT slot and they all wrestled the FB down together.
-- 2nd and 7: 2-wide, 2 TE right shotgun. Pats 4-3 pass rush package. Good protection, but good coverage too. Guyton skyed to get a piece of the ball and tip it short of the WR.
-- 3rd and 7: 4-wide. Pats 4-2 nickel. Big blitz - both Mayo and Adalius came with Sanders coming from Safety forcing McNabb to hurry and throw off his back foot incomplete.
-- Punt: Edelman fair catch with a man in his face, there was some good pressure up the middle by the PR team.

-- 1st and 10 NE 23: 2-wide, 2 TE. Iggles 4-3. Thomas motion to the NE right side, Brady play action to Maroney and hit Moss on a nice crossing pattern for 13 yds.
-- 1st and 10: 3-wide, TE Rt, shotgun. Iggles 4-2 nickel. Brady to Moss deep along the sideline - Samuel draws a PI for holding Moss' arm.
-- 1st and 10 Phi 18: 2-wide Lt, 2 TE Rt. Phi 4-3. Nice blocking - the OL blocked down pulling Mankins, Baker from 1x1 outside Kaczur blocked down to seal the DE. Thomas kicked out the SLB. Mankins creamed the MLB. Kaczur came off and picked up the WLB and took him all the way across outside the SLB. Maroney was unable to get up a head of steam - he looked like he was sailing through a mine field with all the changes of direction as he let his blockers clear the way, the only thing that kept him from busting loose into the secondary was the LDE had been spun completely around by Baker's block and was pointed in the right direction when Maroney slowed to allow Kaczur to finish opening the door, the LDE was just able to get a hold of him to save a big gain. It was a really pretty job of blocking and following your blockers. 4 yds.
-- 2nd and 6: 4-wide, trips Lt. 4-2 nickel. Flanker screen to Edelman behind Baker and Lewis for 5 yds. Good job blocking and running behind the blocks again.
-- 3rd and 1: I-form, Moss Rt., TE Rt. Phi 4-3. Quick snap, running behind Baker at RTE, Thomas kicked out the run blitzing SLB. Baker jacked the MLB back, and Maroney slashed over the line for a first down before Hobbs brought him down. 4 yds.
-- 1st and goal: I-form, Moss Lt, 2 TE Rt. Phi 4-3. Alex Smith motioned R-L and chipped the RDE before sealing the WLB. Thomas kicked out the S. Light lost his block on the RDE when Smith came off and Maroney was pulled down from behind as he followed his blockers off LT. 1 yd.
-- 2nd and goal. 3-wide, 2 Rt, TE Lt, shotgun. Phi 4-1 dime. Edelman motioned inside to bunch behind Lewis. Nice protection as Brady worked from R-L and hit Baker running an out at the goal line. Another half second and he could have hit Maroney at the 1 when he cleared the Umpire. TD.
-- Gost for the EP. 7-0 Pats.

Observations: Favorite whipping boy Maroney showed great patience and decent vision, setting up his blockers and giving them time to do their jobs for him. Favorite whipping boy Matt Light had a more mixed game to this point, twice missing on run blocks against a quick DE - he was solid in pass protection. Baker and Thomas working together as TEs looked very good, with Baker drawing more power/in-line assignments and Thomas the FB assignments, but both lined up in-line and offset off the line with no immediate pattern to who was doing what except when Thomas was at FB. Edelman looked natural (though I know the best is yet to come), Lewis looked like Gaffney, Galloway and Brady still need more time together.