Will we draft a running back ?

[VJCPatriot]

Shonn Greene looked fantastic in that clip. Love to have him. People are sleeping on the RBs in this draft. Someone recently said it's a crappy RB draft. Moreno, Wells, Greene, Brown, McCoy, 5 one thousand yard rushers in the NFL. That's not a crappy RB draft.

From the look of the videos Brown is more of a speedster back. He does have added value catching the football with his hands. IE he looks a lot like Maroney to me. I'd also have to discount the level of competition he faced a bit. Syracuse was just horrible this year and the Big East isn't the most competitive conference.

On the other hand Iowa University is in the Big 10 which features 4 teams ranked nationally in the top 25 this year: Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan State, and Northwestern. Now that's tough competition.

BCS Standings - Big Ten Network

How did Greene fare vs top ranked opponents? He did pretty well against just about anybody but here's how he did against nationally ranked teams.

Pittsburgh #21. 147 yards 6.4 ypc 1 td
Northwestern #23. 159 yards 7.6 ypc 1 td
Michigan State #18. 157 yards 5.2 ypc 0 td
Penn State #8. 117 yards 4.2 ypc 2 tds

Shonn Greene Stats, News, Photos - Iowa Hawkeyes - NCAA College Football - ESPN

As I said I think I prefer a power back for the Patriots offense. And Shonn Greene fits the description better imo. I expect Moreno, McCoy, and Wells to be all gone in round 1. Given Greene's skillset and power running between the tackles and through traffic, Greene looks like an attractive option to me at RB in the rounds 2-3 area.

 

[upstater1]

From the look of the videos Brown is more of a speedster back. He does have added value catching the football with his hands. IE he looks a lot like Maroney to me. I'd also have to discount the level of competition he faced a bit. Syracuse was just horrible this year and the Big East isn't the most competitive conference.

On the other hand Iowa University is in the Big 10 which features 4 teams ranked nationally in the top 25 this year: Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan State, and Northwestern. Now that's tough competition.

BCS Standings - Big Ten Network

How did Greene fare vs top ranked opponents? He did pretty well against just about anybody but here's how he did against nationally ranked teams.

Pittsburgh #21. 147 yards 6.4 ypc 1 td
Northwestern #23. 159 yards 7.6 ypc 1 td
Michigan State #18. 157 yards 5.2 ypc 0 td
Penn State #8. 117 yards 4.2 ypc 2 tds

Shonn Greene Stats, News, Photos - Iowa Hawkeyes - NCAA College Football - ESPN

As I said I think I prefer a power back for the Patriots offense. And Shonn Greene fits the description better imo. I expect Moreno, McCoy, and Wells to be all gone in round 1. Given Greene's skillset and power running between the tackles and through traffic, Greene looks like an attractive option to me at RB in the rounds 2-3 area.

Donald Brown has very little Maroney in him. He was a between the tackles downhill runner. That's what he's known for. McCoy is very similar to maroney in that he dances looking for a hole to break a big one, and he has speed. Brown runs with a lot more power.

As for the Big 10 v. BE, I'm really not impressed. By the way, you mentioned Syracuse, the worst team in the BE. There are a lot of crappy teams all over football, every league has one. Pac-10, Big 10, even the SEC.

The beauty is that Brown gained just as many yards against ACC teams:

9/13 Virginia W 45-10 20 206 10.3

9/19 Baylor W 31-28 34 150 4.4

9/26 @Louisville W 26-21 33 190 5.8

10/4 @North Carolina L 38-12 33 161 4.9

10/18 @Rutgers L 12-10 27 107 4.0

10/25 Cincinnati W 40-16 29 150 5.2

11/1 West Virginia L 35-13 19 82 4.3

11/15 @Syracuse W 39-14 22 131 6.0

12/6 Pittsburgh L 34-10 34 189 5.6

It's really hard to gain 2000 yards in a season if you don't bring it each and every week against every kind of competition. Brown really did do that. In fact, he fared better out of conference than he did in conference.

I'm a PSU fan, I really know how strong the league tends to be, and this year it was very very weak. I mean, Michigan St? Northwestern? Tough competition? Michigan State was a sieve defense when I saw them this year. The BE was off as well, and so was the ACC. This year was SEC and Big 12 and USC. Outside of that, it didn't matter if you were playing Michigan, West Virginia, Clemson or California. All the same thing.

 

[Seneschal2]

Will we draft a running back?

Yes -- on day two. Happens to be one of my sleeper picks in this draft -- Cedric Peerman, Virginia, 5093 210.

Similar to Faulk as a do-it-all RB -- kick returner, pass receiver, and an excellent pass blocker. Not a change-of-pace back like Kevin, but more of a tough, hard runner (good stiff arm). Not 40 fast, but has the quick burst and balance to make the first tackler miss. Injuries slowed his production (hence the 5th round projection). Done a lot of research on him, and found his intangibles to be top notch.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Yes -- on day two. Happens to be one of my sleeper picks in this draft -- Cedric Peerman, Virginia, 5093 210.

Similar to Faulk as a do-it-all RB -- kick returner, pass receiver, and an excellent pass blocker. Not a change-of-pace back like Kevin, but more of a tough, hard runner (good stiff arm). Not 40 fast, but has the quick burst and balance to make the first tackler miss. Injuries slowed his production (hence the 5th round projection). Done a lot of research on him, and found his intangibles to be top notch.

I hope he can learn to protect the ball better.

 

[Seneschal2]

I hope he can learn to protect the ball better.

443 touches without a fumble as a runner, receiver, and kick returner. Then he fumbles near the end of the season and at the Senior Bowl, and everyone talks about his small hands. I doubt his hands shrunk after 443 touches. EXPERTS.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

443 touches without a fumble as a runner, receiver, and kick returner. Then he fumbles near the end of the season and at the Senior Bowl, and everyone talks about his small hands. I doubt his hands shrunk after 443 touches. EXPERTS.

It was a lack of concentration in the Senior Bowl that had me growling at him. Loved his running over people, I just hated seeing him mess up like that after making such a strong impression.

 

[WhiZa]

I dont want to put a damper on all the RB talk, but we won't be drafting a RB besides to sign to the PS. Once Evans is resigned we will have our 5 RBs going into 2009 (Maroney, Morris, Faulk, Lawfirm, and Evans).

 

[cstjohn17]

Donald Brown has very little Maroney in him.

Is that a good thing? Really not sure.

Tough call, they could see value and pick a back. Hell if Wells or Moreno slip they could event take a round 1 RB, it is not like they have Jim Brown, Walter Payton and Barry Sanders. All they have is a collection of slightly better than average JAGs (except for Faulk who kicks butt). Also Maroney and Morris are not exactly locks to play 16 games.

 

[Water Boy]

Now imagine that Moreno falls all the way to #23...

I'd have no complaints on using No. 23 for Moreno.

 

[Water Boy]

Here's some video of Donald Brown:

YouTube - Donald Brown Vs Virginia

Thanks for posting these clips. I am very impressed with how technically sound Brown is in handling the football. The ball is tightly cradled between the palm and bicept and he fluidly and instictively switches the ball to the arm that is away from the defender.

 

[Water Boy]

Yes -- on day two. Happens to be one of my sleeper picks in this draft -- Cedric Peerman, Virginia, 5093 210.

Similar to Faulk as a do-it-all RB .

As long as we have Faulk on the roster, why do we need to draft his clone?

 

[mgteich]

We might use a 5th round or later to compete with BJGE for a roster spot, the other going to the Practice Squad.

I dont want to put a damper on all the RB talk, but we won't be drafting a RB besides to sign to the PS. Once Evans is resigned we will have our 5 RBs going into 2009 (Maroney, Morris, Faulk, Lawfirm, and Evans).

 

[Seneschal2]

As long as we have Faulk on the roster, why do we need to draft his clone?

You may be preaching to the preacher, as Faulk is my favorite player. And besides, Peerman doesn't resemble Kevin in his style -- only in his repertoire as a KO returner, pass receiver, and blocker. One dimensional he's not. Because of his toughness, he could easily replace Morris or Maroney should they get nicked, or Kevin as a blocker/receiver.

I could go on about how Belichick prefers multi-talented and versatile players -- but I think we all know this. And if there's an opportunity to upgrade the bottom of the roster (see sig), and more specifically BJGE -- than we do so. And if we're fortunate enough to upgrade ANY position by investing a lowly day two pick...well, I'd say that's value.

 

[upstater1]

Is that a good thing? Really not sure.

Tough call, they could see value and pick a back. Hell if Wells or Moreno slip they could event take a round 1 RB, it is not like they have Jim Brown, Walter Payton and Barry Sanders. All they have is a collection of slightly better than average JAGs (except for Faulk who kicks butt). Also Maroney and Morris are not exactly locks to play 16 games.

Well, what I meant was, he has good vision and is decisive about picking holes.

Mind you, Maroney at the end of the 2007 season was running great.

Maroney in his first three years here has had a very good half a season, though of course that was on an undefeated team that was ratcheting down the throwing game late in the year.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Thanks for posting these clips. I am very impressed with how technically sound Brown is in handling the football. The ball is tightly cradled between the palm and bicept and he fluidly and instictively switches the ball to the arm that is away from the defender.

Ball security is a good thing to have but it's not the main selling point of a RB. All runningbacks should have it. How well can they run, can they move the chains, how is their vision? That's what I'm looking for.

I looked at the Brown clip again and I still think he reminds me more of Maroney. He's quite a different runner than Greene. Brown makes yardage by eluding would be tacklers. Shonn Greene simply runs over people or spins out of their grasp when they think they have him. I prefer the power RB to the elusive RB. Maybe because Maroney soured me on the elusive type.

Brown vs Virginia
YouTube - Donald Brown Vs Virginia

The elusive type CAN be good, IF they make decisive cuts rather than dance inthe hole and miss it. The hole becomes a LOT smaller in the NFL compared to college. Shonn Greene is the type of RB who just tries to bust his way through that small hole. What will Brown do if he doesn't see one? Dance around and take a small loss like Maroney? That's what worries me.

If I were to rank RBs I'd say Greene is worth it as early as round 2, and if he's in round 3 you scoop him up with no hesitation. With Brown, I'd be cool with taking a chance on him but not before the 3rd round. Let's just hope he doesn't catch the 'dancing' bug from Maroney.

 

[BradfordPatsFan]

Ball security is a good thing to have but it's not the main selling point of a RB. All runningbacks should have it. How well can they run, can they move the chains, how is their vision? That's what I'm looking for.

I looked at the Brown clip again and I still think he reminds me more of Maroney. He's quite a different runner than Greene. Brown makes yardage by eluding would be tacklers. Shonn Greene simply runs over people or spins out of their grasp when they think they have him. I prefer the power RB to the elusive RB. Maybe because Maroney soured me on the elusive type.

Brown vs Virginia
YouTube - Donald Brown Vs Virginia

The elusive type CAN be good, IF they make decisive cuts rather than dance inthe hole and miss it. The hole becomes a LOT smaller in the NFL compared to college. Shonn Greene is the type of RB who just tries to bust his way through that small hole. What will Brown do if he doesn't see one? Dance around and take a small loss like Maroney? That's what worries me.

If I were to rank RBs I'd say Greene is worth it as early as round 2, and if he's in round 3 you scoop him up with no hesitation. With Brown, I'd be cool with taking a chance on him but not before the 3rd round. Let's just hope he doesn't catch the 'dancing' bug from Maroney.

Brown is NOT a dancer by any stretch. Having watched him for three years at Connecticut, I can tell you that he can deliver a pop when he is hit. It seemed that he got 3+ yards just by touching the ball and falling forward. Look at the run against Pitt this year where he breaks loose and stiff arms a defender. I can tell you he sent at least three players to the sidelines for the game this year with his Dillon-like stiff arms. In the open field he may dance and make people miss but to and through the hole, he hits it and explodes.

BTW, if Reiss' reports are true and the Pats are interested in Fred Taylor, this would likely all be a moot point.

 

[Water Boy]

You may be preaching to the preacher, as Faulk is my favorite player. And besides, Peerman doesn't resemble Kevin in his style -- only in his repertoire as a KO returner, pass receiver, and blocker. One dimensional he's not. Because of his toughness, he could easily replace Morris or Maroney should they get nicked, or Kevin as a blocker/receiver.

Fair enough. Faulk has been so steady over the last decade, it would be hard see how a change of pace/pass receiving back could make the roster.

 

[VJCPatriot]

As for 1st round RBs, I'd rate them 1. Moreno 2. Wells 3. Mccoy. But the Pats aren't drafting a RB in round 1, so that's kind of moot.

 

[Water Boy]

Ball security is a good thing to have but it's not the main selling point of a RB. All runningbacks should have it. How well can they run, can they move the chains, how is their vision? That's what I'm looking for.

Ball security in and of its self is not going to get a RB drafted in the NFL, but I would bet that it is the number one priority on BB's list of job duties for his RBs.

Many backs (eg Corey Dillon) rarely if ever switch arms with the ball. I presume that as long as an RB gets his yards and holds onto the football, coaches at the NFL level don't tend to harp on ball handling technique. It is refreshing to me, however, to see how technically sound Brown's ball handling is.

 

[Water Boy]

Brown is NOT a dancer by any stretch.

I agree. From the clips I've seen Brown is much more of a decisive runner than Maroney. When the gap is there, Brown hits it. Maroney's first instinct is to ALWAYS counter/stutter step in the backfield, even when there is a gaping hole.