TC observations 8/14 and what's wrong with Garo?

[PP2]

Again, all observations off the top of my head without benefit of replay, so please excuse any errors or misperception I may have made here.

A big portion of yesterday was devoted to offense installation, first with no huddle which Hogan appeared to have difficulty with. He had to be coached into proper alignment and then route (both times by Edelman, which just drives home how important he is to this offense).

I found it significant that Brady started off, and started with the 1st string which tells me he is starting Thursday night and will play a significant amount of snaps (and Garo will play all of the 3rd game as is custom of starting QB’s).

Now, without betraying too much specifics per camp request, I saw several interesting plays, one included Bennett at HB aligned WS in shotgun and releasing either for lateral pass or wheel route. I continue to be very impressed with Bennett’s mastery of the offense to this point. He has a very high football IQ. I have yet to see him commit an error, either alignment or route-wise. He is all over the field which is going to represent a major headache for opposing DC’s. If he aligns in the backfield, that pulls a linebacker out of space and forces him to the line. Opens up the field for crossing routes. There was also a Gronk/Bennett stack.

Then there was an interesting drill where installation focused on OL getting to 2nd level and finding their man to block. What made this drill so interesting was that the DL was actually formed with OL personnel, and I’m guessing part of this drill was to make the OL experience this from a defensive perspective- shadowing the RB by judging OL tendencies (and thereby learning how to cover up their own). There was also some regular OL vs. DL 2nd level run blocking work. I guess this was an area BB found lacking and felt the need to improve. The OL continues to be up and down (unlike what I observed the first time) and part of this, I suspect, and as the PS game showed, is that it is still being “De-guggyified” and there’s quite a bit of work to do.

At this point the heat was starting to work on everyone- Bolden, Washington, and one other player pulled up, got gimpy- thankfully nothing major. Long really has a sense of humor- he was actually wearing a sweatshirt under his practice jersey. Could easily have had a heat stroke, but- he didn’t seem affected by the 105 degree heat index.

There was also plenty of ST work done, and Scott O’Brien’s attendance was, IMO, no accident. There obviously was something that really had to be worked on because BB was all over with the ST units when the three units broke up for their own drills.

I know there are those that are concerned about Cyrus Jones bobbling a few catches and I had an opportunity to watch him closely and it’s quite frankly just a case of your classic “running before catching the ball” which he should get over once he settles down. He is just too anxious to demonstrate his talent and speed.

Gost, thankfully was back to form, making all his kicks.

It was also funny to watch Slater smoke Crevon Leblanc who was in gunner coverage. You could see him stand there going “what?” after Slater pulled a roadrunner on him (think a puff of smoke, and a blur going down the field). Welcome to the NFL, kid.


Then quite a bit of situational football- my favorite part of watching camp. You learn a lot from these, and from the players and how they react to stressful situations.

More no huddle, more difficulties with Hogan. Misaligned twice, once on the line (should have been on it as there were only 6) and Brady overthrew him which made me think he executed in error and this was confirmed when Brady went over and discussed the route with him.

I think Washington is good as cut because he keeps making small errors, bad route, bad recognition, dropped pass, and a false start to boot it all. This sent him on a lap around the field and Edelman ran in to sub without being asked, and BB waved him off and put in Carter. This sent Edelman back to the sideline cussing. Anthony Johnson also got a false start on defense and went for a lap.

I also honestly think this is the end of the line for Dobson. He still doesn’t fight for the ball, doesn’t fight for leverage. If he loses leverage, he will pull the plug on the play, simple as that. This isn’t anything new. He may or may not make the roster simply on the basis that “something is better than nothing.” But one thing is fairly clear at this point, there is going to be no “breakout” anything for Dobson. This is as good as he is going to get.

(con't in another post)

 

[Luxusdk]

So all outside the numbers WR struggles or is hurt.... Great news
Then again, Patriots will run a huge amount of 2 and 3 TE sets anyway so any info regarding Harbor?

 

[Clonamery]

Dead freaking on. I will say that Washington had two excellent catches but he struggled the rest of the afternoon. He was having difficulty with the heat more than anyone.

Marty B. is impressive. I don't think he'll be carrying the ball out of the backfield but everything else is open to his skills. Someone yelled, "Good effitt, Mahty Bee!" He looked over and quietly mouthed, "Thank you."

 

[PP2]

Near the end of practice they went to the two minute drill, each quarterback driving down ¾ the field in that amount of time. This allowed me a good look at both Garo and Brady- you learn a lot watching someone under duress- everyone knows Brady and what he’s capable of during such moments. He thrives in this kind of situation.

Now, as for Garo and what really ails him: after watching him in two camp practices, I have come to the conclusion that basically, there’s nothing wrong with him. He is just in a very complex offense and as I said in my first observation, is a man trying to take a drink from a fire hydrant going at full blast. Don’t forget he came from an overtly simplistic system in Illinois, and while his football IQ is pretty high, it still takes practice to master processing an enormous amount of information in the least amount of time. He's not panicking, he's not backing off- he's being persistent, trying to be consistent.

He just needs a lot more reps in this system.

A poster on this board (sorry I forgot who) made the point that what we are going to see is much closer to the serviceable Brady of 2001- turning in a 2 TD 2 INT type of performances and getting bailed out by the D, and that’s basically what we’re going to see the first four games, IMO.

As pointed out, he struggle with read progression, with route timing and recognizing whether he’s throwing into zone or man, and sometime telegraphing ( Freeny batted down a telegraphed pass). His field awareness at this point is so-so, he failed to see a wide open Washington in the flat, right in front of him. It was sort of a “oops!” moment.

His performance in the 2 minute drill was full of typical rookie miscues. A beautiful 20 yarder to Washington that would have left Washington decapitated if this were a full-contact play as Harmon read it all the way through and pulled up just short of beheading Washington.

Incompletion to Hogan, then leading him again. This led to a 4th and 2 which Harper salvaged with a diving catch. Garo then made a quick spike to freeze the clock with 12 seconds left on the 45 which meant he had one more snap, which he also messed up, burning off too much time when he couldn’t find an open man and hit White on a lateral at the last minute who promptly stepped OOB to stop the clock with barely time for a Gost kick which was good.

One thing about him bothers me, as opposed to Brady. When Brady has a miscommunication or a miscue on a route, he will always go up to the receiver and discuss the play, analyze it, fix what went wrong. I didn’t see this from Garo. I really wish he would do the same, instead of just going to the sideline and moping. There was a miscommunication between Garo and Bennett which resulted in that Leblanc (?) INT, but all Leblanc did was stand there and catch the ball. Bennett had nested presumably because he recognized zone and the ball went over his head by a good bit.

I think DeAndre Carter is going to make this team one way or another, either sneaking on the roster or making the PS if he doesn’t get snatched away. He keeps trying to join the first unit- this is clearly a player thirsty for action, and every time there was a personnel sub, he literally starts, takes a few half steps or just agitates- and this drew a “calm the **** down” stare from Chad. He has good chemistry with Brady and always seems to find a way to get open.

 

[Clonamery]

So all outside the numbers WR struggles or is hurt.... Great news
Then again, Patriots will run a huge amount of 2 and 3 TE sets anyway so any info regarding Harbor?

Yeah, Harbor was the last one signing autographs. I didn't notice him otherwise to be honest. Derby was more noticeable (in a good way).

 

[Clonamery]

Near the end of practice they went to the two minute drill, each quarterback driving down ¾ the field in that amount of time. This allowed me a good look at both Garo and Brady- you learn a lot watching someone under duress- everyone knows Brady and what he’s capable of during such moments. He thrives in this kind of situation.

Now, as for Garo and what really ails him: after watching him in two camp practices, I have come to the conclusion that basically, there’s nothing wrong with him. He is just in a very complex offense and as I said in my first observation, is a man trying to take a drink from a fire hydrant going at full blast. Don’t forget he came from an overtly simplistic system in Illinois, and while his football IQ is pretty high, it still takes practice to master processing an enormous amount of information in the least amount of time. He's not panicking, he's not backing off- he's being persistent, trying to be consistent.

He just needs a lot more reps in this system.

A poster on this board (sorry I forgot who) made the point that what we are going to see is much closer to the serviceable Brady of 2001- turning in a 2 TD 2 INT type of performances and getting bailed out by the D, and that’s basically what we’re going to see the first four games, IMO.

As pointed out, he struggle with read progression, with route timing and recognizing whether he’s throwing into zone or man, and sometime telegraphing ( Freeny batted down a telegraphed pass). His field awareness at this point is so-so, he failed to see a wide open Washington in the flat, right in front of him. It was sort of a “oops!” moment.

His performance in the 2 minute drill was full of typical rookie miscues. A beautiful 20 yarder to Washington that would have left Washington decapitated if this were a full-contact play as Harmon read it all the way through and pulled up just short of beheading Washington.

Incompletion to Hogan, then leading him again. This led to a 4th and 2 which Harper salvaged with a diving catch. Garo then made a quick spike to freeze the clock with 12 seconds left on the 45 which meant he had one more snap, which he also messed up, burning off too much time when he couldn’t find an open man and hit White on a lateral at the last minute who promptly stepped OOB to stop the clock with barely time for a Gost kick which was good.

One thing about him bothers me, as opposed to Brady. When Brady has a miscommunication or a miscue on a route, he will always go up to the receiver and discuss the play, analyze it, fix what went wrong. I didn’t see this from Garo. I really wish he would do the same, instead of just going to the sideline and moping. There was a miscommunication between Garo and Bennett which resulted in that Leblanc (?) INT, but all Leblanc did was stand there and catch the ball. Bennett had nested presumably because he recognized zone and the ball went over his head by a good bit.

I think DeAndre Carter is going to make this team one way or another, either sneaking on the roster or making the PS if he doesn’t get snatched away. He keeps trying to join the first unit- this is clearly a player thirsty for action, and every time there was a personnel sub, he literally starts, takes a few half steps or just agitates- and this drew a “calm the **** down” stare from Chad. He has good chemistry with Brady and always seems to find a way to get open.

Agree again.

Carter and Harper were everywhere yesterday. Look like professionals. They get open and they catch the ball.

#10. I spent much of the day saying to myself, "throw it," and then waiting for him to throw it. He seems to have a rapport with Hogan which might be a good/bad thing.

 

[mihap]

Thank you PP2

 

[Mike the Brit]

Excellent observations. Thanks. (FWIW, re-watching his snaps against the Saints, I thought JG anticipated having more time on several snaps -- he was entitled to -- but then seemed a bit slow to adjust and not so accurate when forced to Plan B or C. But, if we're going to panic about anything, it should be the O-Line.)

 

[aluminum seats]

Thanks for all the info. Couple things...

Now, without betraying too much specifics per camp request

That's interesting--hadn't heard that before and it actually seems a little strange. If there aren't 31 teams sending a guy to spy on the Patriots' practices they're even dumber than I thought.

I know there are those that are concerned about Cyrus Jones bobbling a few catches and I had an opportunity to watch him closely and it’s quite frankly just a case of your classic “running before catching the ball” which he should get over once he settles down.

Fair enough, but that's a hugely important aspect to the job, and it doesn't get easier to settle down once they start using live ammo.

 

[Tunescribe]

Now, as for Garo and what really ails him: after watching him in two camp practices, I have come to the conclusion that basically, there’s nothing wrong with him. He is just in a very complex offense and as I said in my first observation, is a man trying to take a drink from a fire hydrant going at full blast. Don’t forget he came from an overtly simplistic system in Illinois, and while his football IQ is pretty high, it still takes practice to master processing an enormous amount of information in the least amount of time. He's not panicking, he's not backing off- he's being persistent, trying to be consistent.

He just needs a lot more reps in this system.

Yes, thank you for this. I'm tired of people here attending a practice or two and coming back to report that Garoppolo "just doesn't have what it takes." He has all the tools, what he doesn't have is experience.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

JAG needs the playtime this summer to develop for the season. He'll get it. His 2016 ceiling is all up to him. All QBs make mistakes under pressure. The key is to minimize the mistake rate.

Excellent observations & thread.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Thanks again, PP2.

 

[jmt57]

A bump for those that may have overlooked this thread.

Thanks much @PP2 for the first-hand observations, insights and analysis.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yes, thank you for this. I'm tired of people here attending a practice or two and coming back to report that Garoppolo "just doesn't have what it takes." He has all the tools, what he doesn't have is experience.

No offense, but you don't know whether or not he has all the tools. For example, you don't know of he'll be able to read defenses fast enough at the NFL level. At this point in the QB's young career, anyone speaking about JAG, pro or con, is combining observation with speculation, and just trying to come up with a guess. Some guesses will be more educated than others, but they'll still be guesses.

And that even applies to his own coaches.

 

[Tunescribe]

No offense, but you don't know whether or not he has all the tools. For example, you don't know of he'll be able to read defenses fast enough at the NFL level. At this point in the QB's young career, anyone speaking about JAG, pro or con, is combining observation with speculation, and just trying to come up with a guess. Some guesses will be more educated than others, but they'll still be guesses.

And that even applies to his own coaches.

Perhaps I should have put a finer point on his having "all the tools." By that I'm referring to physical ability and mechanics. He also seems bright enough. I am hopeful (as his coaches appear to be) that his reading/decision-making capabilities will develop with experience.

 

[PP2]

So all outside the numbers WR struggles or is hurt.... Great news
Then again, Patriots will run a huge amount of 2 and 3 TE sets anyway so any info regarding Harbor?

Harbor is gone, IMO. Hasn't made much of an impact.