Round 2 Players No Factor in Jets Loss Last Year

[Badger]

That fact that your opinion was misinformed and you attempted to draw a ridiculous connection between unrelated issues gone missing on you has it?

Go cry in the corner would you.

Again with the name calling. Must make you feel better. Why is my opinion a ridiculous connection? Please expound? Once again 5 of our last 6 1st Round picks are Pro Bowlers, 0 Pro Bowlers in the 12 2nd rounders that we have selected in the past 7 years. We also have 0 Playoff wins in past 3 years. Straight facts.

 

[patriot lifer]

McCourty, Mayo, Merriweather, Maroney, Mankins, Wilork, Watson, Warren. All 1st round picks. Spikes, Cunningham, Gronkowski, Chung, Brace, Butler, Vollmer, Wheatley, C.Jackson, Marquie Hill, Wilson, Bethel Johnson. All 2nd round picks. See any Pro Bowlers in that group? Nope. Lets look at the debacle against the Jets in the Playoffs last year. Spikes coming back from suspension - no factor, Cunningham - no factor, Gronkowski - average game, Chung - bonehead move of the game, Brace - not on field, Vollmer - average game, Wheatley - yeah right, C.Jackson - not on the team, M.Hill - unfortunately has left us, E.Wilson - long gone, B.Johnson - working at Foot Locker when game played.

Can't get back to winning Super Bowls by relying on 3 second round picks every year. Team still doesn't have an impact pass rusher. Jets, Steelers, Colts, Ravens all have multiple pass rushers and Jets and Steelers added more last night.

Take some perspective. We mustn't fixate on a single game. These 2nd round shlumps were invaluable in getting us to a 14-2 record. We lost the playoff game. Unfortunately the way football works is that it's a sudden death tournament during the playoffs. We just didn't execute for that one single game, which included Brady.

Also these guys are part of that thing called "rebuilding." Everyone was complaining about us not drafting enough and getting younger. Now the problem is too many young guys? There's no pleasing us. These rookies and 2nd year guys need time to develop. Not every first-rounder is a stud like McCourty.

BB has developed what one commenter on PFT called a credit card company of draft picks. And the more draft picks we have, the fewer other teams have, meaning they're all the more valuable come draft day. It increases flexibility for us and allows us to target the players we want by trading up and down as we please while maximizing value.

And remember, there's no guarantee with these picks. If we're back to putting all of our marbles in one player, then what if we get another Laurence Maroney? We hedge our bets pretty darn well the way they're operating. And quality players can be found in the 2nd round, and they're more cost-effective. There's all this hoopla about the draft picks leading up to and during the draft, and then at training camp we just hope that the players can contribute. Each pick (even in the first round) is taking a chance and with more picks you have a greater chance of hitting a home run while ensuring that no one pick will set you back a year.

 

[Badger]

Take some perspective. We mustn't fixate on a single game. These 2nd round shlumps were invaluable in getting us to a 14-2 record. We lost the playoff game. Unfortunately the way football works is that it's a sudden death tournament during the playoffs. We just didn't execute for that one single game, which included Brady.

Also these guys are part of that thing called "rebuilding." Everyone was complaining about us not drafting enough and getting younger. Now the problem is too many young guys? There's no pleasing us. These rookies and 2nd year guys need time to develop. Not every first-rounder is a stud like McCourty.

BB has developed what one commenter on PFT called a credit card company of draft picks. And the more draft picks we have, the fewer other teams have, meaning they're all the more valuable come draft day. It increases flexibility for us and allows us to target the players we want by trading up and down as we please while maximizing value.

And remember, there's no guarantee with these picks. If we're back to putting all of our marbles in one player, then what if we get another Laurence Maroney? We hedge our bets pretty darn well the way they're operating. And quality players can be found in the 2nd round, and they're more cost-effective. There's all this hoopla about the draft picks leading up to and during the draft, and then at training camp we just hope that the players can contribute. Each pick (even in the first round) is taking a chance and with more picks you have a greater chance of hitting a home run while ensuring that no one pick will set you back a year.

I can respect that opinion. A well thought out post with no name calling. Refreshing. My position has been though that we are in real need of an impact pass rusher. Somebody who can help soon, not 3-4 years from now. The Jets are the team that we have to always measure ourselves against. Like it or not, Sanchez is going to continue to get better and we have to be able to pressure him. We haven't seen anything out of our current guys to lead us to believe that any of them can be a dominant pass rusher. Adding old vets like Derrick Burgess and Marcus Stroud is not going to get it done. At some point, we are just going to have to take a gamble to try to get a big time edge rusher and it looked like this could be the year with so much draft ammunition. It is dissapointing that we continue to be conservative and save for the future and we still don't have the impact pass rusher like the Jets, Steelers, Colts, Ravens etc.

 

[patriot lifer]

Again with the name calling. Must make you feel better. Why is my opinion a ridiculous connection? Please expound? Once again 5 of our last 6 1st Round picks are Pro Bowlers, 0 Pro Bowlers in the 12 2nd rounders that we have selected in the past 7 years. We also have 0 Playoff wins in past 3 years. Straight facts.

While we've done well with our first rounders of late (although you're including Meriweather in the "success" category), I think that the team has had reservations over drafting players in the first because they just don't feel confident in all the candidates. You mention the probowlers, but perhaps their high yield of probowlers is more attributed to their discerning eye in first round picks. If they had made more first round selections, then we might see a lower yield of high quality picks.

As for the first round picks in recent memory, I don't think they're as impressive as you give them credit for. By far, McCourty is the home run. Mayo has done well as well, but besides those two I would go way back to 2005 for our last good first rounder. Meriweather has probowls but is he even the starter? Instead a second rounder and Sanders start over him.

I like the first rounders, but so does every other team, which creates a very good opportunity in robbing other teams of value in which they mortgage their future. Trading out of the first in this draft gave us two picks. A second rounder this year, plus a first rounder next year--one first becomes a second and a first (not too shabby).

 

[fair catch fryar]

Wow. Take a deep breath, take two aspirin and call me in the morning......after the 2nd and 3rd round before you think about stepping off the ledge.

 

[Badger]

While we've done well with our first rounders of late (although you're including Meriweather in the "success" category), I think that the team has had reservations over drafting players in the first because they just don't feel confident in all the candidates. You mention the probowlers, but perhaps their high yield of probowlers is more attributed to their discerning eye in first round picks. If they had made more first round selections, then we might see a lower yield of high quality picks.

As for the first round picks in recent memory, I don't think they're as impressive as you give them credit for. By far, McCourty is the home run. Mayo has done well as well, but besides those two I would go way back to 2005 for our last good first rounder. Meriweather has probowls but is he even the starter? Instead a second rounder and Sanders start over him.

I like the first rounders, but so does every other team, which creates a very good opportunity in robbing other teams of value in which they mortgage their future. Trading out of the first in this draft gave us two picks. A second rounder this year, plus a first rounder next year--one first becomes a second and a first (not too shabby).

I understand your position, but who puts Sanchez and Manning on their rear ends next year? We can't win a Super Bowl without a consistent edge rusher? A future pick has never scored a touchdown or gotten a sack. This team's failures in the playoffs can be directly linked to not having enough impact players on defense in my opinion. When we use the 1st rounders, our draft history seems to yeild "impact" defenders. Just don't know if drafting guys like Chung, Spikes and Cunningham again this year in the draft is going to get us over the Jets, Steelers, Ravens, Colts this coming year.

 

[patriot lifer]

I can respect that opinion. A well thought out post with no name calling. Refreshing. My position has been though that we are in real need of an impact pass rusher. Somebody who can help soon, not 3-4 years from now. The Jets are the team that we have to always measure ourselves against. Like it or not, Sanchez is going to continue to get better and we have to be able to pressure him. We haven't seen anything out of our current guys to lead us to believe that any of them can be a dominant pass rusher. Adding old vets like Derrick Burgess and Marcus Stroud is not going to get it done. At some point, we are just going to have to take a gamble to try to get a big time edge rusher and it looked like this could be the year with so much draft ammunition. It is dissapointing that we continue to be conservative and save for the future and we still don't have the impact pass rusher like the Jets, Steelers, Colts, Ravens etc.

While I love the idea of getting a nice, reliable passrusher, I feel like the draft doesn't provide a magic bullet. The Colts have relied on Freeney and Mathis for all these years and have been lucky to have them. They're going to find it's hard to find replacements. It isn't like shopping on ebay to pick an elite pass rusher. These guys are young and projecting their future play is a very inexact science. And perhaps this draft didn't include who they were looking for.

Side note: I wouldn't say the Jets have a good pash rush. That was one of their defenses weaknesses.

 

[Badger]

While I love the idea of getting a nice, reliable passrusher, I feel like the draft doesn't provide a magic bullet. The Colts have relied on Freeney and Mathis for all these years and have been lucky to have them. They're going to find it's hard to find replacements. It isn't like shopping on ebay to pick an elite pass rusher. These guys are young and projecting their future play is a very inexact science. And perhaps this draft didn't include who they were looking for.

Side note: I wouldn't say the Jets have a good pash rush. That was one of their defenses weaknesses.

I think they get good pressure on the QB. They had Brady off his game when it counted. The also addressed it yesterday in the 1st round. Ryan, as much as I can't stand him, saw their percieved weakness and took a gamble and went out to try to fix it. No hedging and trading around, but went after an impact lineman to try to get more push. Maybe he doesn't pan out, but if he does......we are in further trouble.

 

[patriot lifer]

I understand your position, but who puts Sanchez and Manning on their rear ends next year? We can't win a Super Bowl without a consistent edge rusher? A future pick has never scored a touchdown or gotten a sack. This team's failures in the playoffs can be directly linked to not having enough impact players on defense in my opinion. When we use the 1st rounders, our draft history seems to yeild "impact" defenders. Just don't know if drafting guys like Chung, Spikes and Cunningham again this year in the draft is going to get us over the Jets, Steelers, Ravens, Colts this coming year.

I thought we were pretty darn good last year. We were 14-2. The problem down the stretch, imo, is that we ran dry on defensive linemen due to injury. Mike Wright, Ron Brace, Brandon Deadrick, and Myron Pryor were all beat up or moved to IR. Love and Cohen were not suitable replacements and we lost Ty Warren before the season even began. That concentration of injuries at that position was the issue in my book.

The other aspect to consider is that there are two levels of evaluating a rosters strength at a given position. First there is the top quality talent, and then there is the quality depth. I felt for a long time we were lacking a consistent quality of player across all positions for a long time (since 2004), which means both top quality talent as well as depth. And the problem was that we stuck in a rut where we would draft our usual 1 guy in the first and 1 guy in the second, which wasn't nourishing our team with adequate top end quality and depth quality. In recent years (2009 and 2010) we have accumulated enough picks to help revitalize our team with an infusion of talent. If we were to of relied on primarily first rounders, then we would perpetuate the problem we had before (never having a good balance of top end quality with depth quality. The fact is that for a long time we didn't have enough legitamate contributors on the team. Guys like Pierre Woods weren't going to do it for a championship team. By drafting a bunch of second rounders, we ensure that we have ample players who can make legitimate contributions and improve the across the board quality of the team. Otherwise we're relying on JAG's from around the league for more of our positions. So I think the strategy has greatly helped boost our team's talent level.

 

[patriot lifer]

I think they get good pressure on the QB. They had Brady off his game when it counted. The also addressed it yesterday in the 1st round. Ryan, as much as I can't stand him, saw their percieved weakness and took a gamble and went out to try to fix it. No hedging and trading around, but went after an impact lineman to try to get more push. Maybe he doesn't pan out, but if he does......we are in further trouble.

The general consensus has been more that they scheme to get pressure on the QB, because they don't have anyone in particular who is that good. Just look at each player's total sack numbers (I'm too lazy). And the jury's out on their current selection. Their pick last year didn't work out too well, and they may run into a problem where they don't have enough up-and-coming talent, while their more recent successes (Mangold, Revis, Ferguson, Harrison) become more expensive as their rookie contracts are dumped for new ones. In 2009 they had only 3 picks (but that's for the infamous Jets Suck thread ).

 

[jmt57]

Badger, obviously you're not a fan of getting extra 2nd round picks. I'm curious to know specifically what you as GM of the Patriots would have done differently yesterday, as well as in 2010 and 2009?