Onside kick -- what was the plan?

[GoWhalers]

Errrr....onside

While obviously a little bummed about the final score, I did kind of enjoy how unwilling the commentators (and Scott Van Pelt) were to call the game's outcome. It was almost like you see them thinking "well, a 17 point lead with 5 minutes to go should wrap it up, but we've seen the Patriots do this before..."

I don't know if anyone had a chance to review the onside kick in detail -- a soccer-boot at the ball flat on its side -- but the following jumped out at me in real-time:

1) Gostkowski's body language seemed totally defeated, i.e. "this will never work" -- I'm talking Cutler-level of disinterest! (ha ha)

2) The kick as executed was unlikely to go 10 yards, so the plan was to hope that a diving Dolphin would break discipline and touch it first but not corral it?

3) Why not kick it harder at someone, with the hope that the speed of the kick will ensure a deflection off of a Dolphin?

Interested in anyone else's observations...I wondered afterwards if the team was bummed at not scoring the TD after Amendola landed at the 1 yard line.

 

[Jackson 2]

I'd had enough after reading your #1...

 

[Bruins29]

Interested in anyone else's observations...

They recovered it

 

[Ring 6]

Errrr....onside

While obviously a little bummed about the final score, I did kind of enjoy how unwilling the commentators (and Scott Van Pelt) were to call the game's outcome. It was almost like you see them thinking "well, a 17 point lead with 5 minutes to go should wrap it up, but we've seen the Patriots do this before..."

Can we please stop the body language bs? It is so ignorant and annoying.

I don't know if anyone had a chance to review the onside kick in detail -- a soccer-boot at the ball flat on its side -- but the following jumped out at me in real-time:

1) Gostkowski's body language seemed totally defeated, i.e. "this will never work" -- I'm talking Cutler-level of disinterest! (ha ha)

2) The kick as executed was unlikely to go 10 yards, so the plan was to hope that a diving Dolphin would break discipline and touch it first but not corral it?

3) Why not kick it harder at someone, with the hope that the speed of the kick will ensure a deflection off of a Dolphin?

Interested in anyone else's observations...I wondered afterwards if the team was bummed at not scoring the TD after Amendola landed at the 1 yard line.

The plan certainly was they had to touch it first so 10 yards was irrelevant. The idea was have six guys hit the one who touched it and jar it loose. If it’s loose you have like 11 on 3 to recover.
Kicking it harder at someone would be a different kind of kick. They chose this one. I think it was kind of innovative. Hard to call something that didn’t work once bad when it’s a situation where a 5% success rate would be fantastic.
Scoring the TD wouldn’t have mattered because they didn’t recover the onside.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I actually think the idea was brilliant. When a Dolphin tries to fall on it, there are Patriots there to hit immediately to jar the ball out, a bang bang play. That’s the reason for such a slow kick, to enable the defenders to be as close to the ball as possible, ready to hit as soon as the the ball is being secured. That’s the concept behind kicking it high in the air as well, but this was outside the box thinking. I think they hoped that (A) Gostkowski kicked it just right and (B) the Dolphins player fielding the ball would be forced to either dive for it prior to ten yards (with a cluster of defenders) or potentially hesitate to see if the ball would get there, which could also lead to a recovery. He kicked it too soft, though, and the Dolphins player made a god decision on his feet to fall on the ball rather than gambling that it would not go 10 yards. If it had been kicked a little harder, it would have been a difficult split second decision.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

On top of everything else, the refs missed what should have been an illegal formation penalty. NE had too many players between the hash marks (which is a thing on kickoffs after the rules changes several years ago).

 

[Jlaff]

Errrr....onside

While obviously a little bummed about the final score, I did kind of enjoy how unwilling the commentators (and Scott Van Pelt) were to call the game's outcome. It was almost like you see them thinking "well, a 17 point lead with 5 minutes to go should wrap it up, but we've seen the Patriots do this before..."

I don't know if anyone had a chance to review the onside kick in detail -- a soccer-boot at the ball flat on its side -- but the following jumped out at me in real-time:

1) Gostkowski's body language seemed totally defeated, i.e. "this will never work" -- I'm talking Cutler-level of disinterest! (ha ha)

2) The kick as executed was unlikely to go 10 yards, so the plan was to hope that a diving Dolphin would break discipline and touch it first but not corral it?

3) Why not kick it harder at someone, with the hope that the speed of the kick will ensure a deflection off of a Dolphin?

Interested in anyone else's observations...I wondered afterwards if the team was bummed at not scoring the TD after Amendola landed at the 1 yard line.

I like your idea about kicking it hard at someone. The formation brought all the Dolphins close together, that may have worked!

 

[TinhWoodhead]

still would rather they did the “regular” onside kick. they were being too cute in this game like passing at the goal line.

 

[captain stone]

Don't really have a problem with the type of kick they tried, it was just kicked too slowly to travel the yardage needed to recover it themselves. Obviously it's a fine, and difficult-to-execute, line between too slow and too hard. Still beats the usual attempt toward the sideline, which I have never, ever understood anyway. One would think that, with so much more time on their hands, some kicker somewhere would be able to more closely perfect an on-sides kick that goes 10 yards, in the middle of the field, and high enough in the air that his teammates could be waiting for it when it comes down.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

One would think that, with so much more time on their hands, some kicker somewhere would be able to more closely perfect an on-sides kick that goes 10 yards, in the middle of the field, and high enough in the air that his teammates could be waiting for it when it comes down.

Problem is it has got to hit the ground first. If the ball never hits the ground the receiving team can signal for a fair catch and then the kicking team needs to let them have the chance to catch it. One the ball hits the ground the FC option goes away.

But still, I agree with you that one would think kickers would practice driving it into the ground in such a way as to get a consistent, very high bounce that goes 10yd downfield. Then everyone on both teams can go for it, without having to give anyone an opportunity to catch it first.

 

[Tony2046]

Problem is it has got to hit the ground first. If the ball never hits the ground the receiving team can signal for a fair catch and then the kicking team needs to let them have the chance to catch it. One the ball hits the ground the FC option goes away.

But still, I agree with you that one would think kickers would practice driving it into the ground in such a way as to get a consistent, very high bounce that goes 10yd downfield. Then everyone on both teams can go for it, without having to give anyone an opportunity to catch it first.

Could you imagine the variables though? Field type, K-ball, Weather, atmosphere etc....

 

[A Defiant Goose]

Idk why people keep bashing the kick. It was a good idea, just not executed perfectly. The idea is that if you roll the ball rather than bounce it, it's more predictable AND slower so your team can keep up with it so that when it hits the 10 yard mark it's a 50 50 ball. It just didn't go the 10 yards.

 

[tasmlab]

Rule question: I know the ball has to travel 10 yards before the kicking team can try to get it, does the receiving team also have to wait 10 yards or can they grab it anytime?

FWIW, nearly every play looks bad when it doesn't work.

 

[dannydyn]

Onside kick -- what was the plan?

- recover it

 

[bbobbo]

On top of everything else, the refs missed what should have been an illegal formation penalty. NE had too many players between the hash marks (which is a thing on kickoffs after the rules changes several years ago).

it was a legal kickoff formation. the playing rules state:

the Inbounds Line is the inner edge of the hash marks, so the hash marks are considered part of the Side Zones:

from the screenshot below, on the near side, jones (#31) and bolden (#38) are on the hashes, or outside the Inbounds Lines, although bolden is right on the edge. can't see who's on the other side, but two players look like they are lined up on the hashes as well. so it was a legal formation.

 

[jah]

On top of everything else, the refs missed what should have been an illegal formation penalty. NE had too many players between the hash marks (which is a thing on kickoffs after the rules changes several years ago).

Off topic, but remember when kickoffs started with a moving huddle that exploded after the ball was kicked? Certainly looked cool. Apparently it was dangerous...

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Could you imagine the variables though? Field type, K-ball, Weather, atmosphere etc....

I guess that's why you sign someone to a $17.2 million contract to Kick the Football.
Maybe you hope they might work that out so your team has a decent (not perfect, but decent) chance of pulling it off.

 

[Tony2046]

I guess that's why you sign someone to a $17.2 million contract to Kick the Football.
Maybe you hope they might work that out so your team has a decent (not perfect, but decent) chance of pulling it off.

Sure. Just thought it was interesting.

 

[neuronet]

On top of everything else, the refs missed what should have been an illegal formation penalty. NE had too many players between the hash marks (which is a thing on kickoffs after the rules changes several years ago).

In general, we were outcoached as much as we were outplayed.

 

[maineman209]

Another idea for a trick onside kick ...

The kicker places the ball on the tee, turns his back to it to start stepping off his distance, then "slips" and "accidentally" propels the ball 6-7 yards into the neutral zone. The kicker says "Awww, ****!", laughs and hollers at an opposing player, "Hey! A little help?"

The unsuspecting opposing player graciously picks up the ball and tosses it back to the kicker.

Of course, there's stuff that the refs do before the kick that would prevent this from ever happening, but it's still kinda fun to envision. Some idiot Hollywood director will probably try to use it in a movie, though.