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NFL Films guru Greg Cosell compares Dobson to Larry Fitzgerald


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You do realize that when Fitzgerald was coming into the league HE was being compared to current players at the time. It's just part of fandom and media conjecture. It's going to happen whether Dobson's played a down in the NFL or not. It's actually quite the complement to be compared to the greats of the game. I remember Fitzgerald coming into the league, and people were saying he's a big possession receiver. I think he didn't run a fast 40, but man, in the Super Bowl when he scored the go ahead TD prior to Pittsburgh's comeback, he sure looked really fast. Shows you 40's don't always equate football speed.
Superbowl 43 Arizona Cardinals - Larry Fitzgerald - runs ball for a 55 yard Touchdown. - YouTube

Great example of what Cosell described in the OP's link. Fitzgerald may have run a 4.48, but big receivers *should* have slower 40 times. They typically play faster relative to their 40 time, compared to smaller guys.
 
I would be more than happy, ecstatic really for Dobson to replicate Fitzgerald's rookie season;

16 games started 58 receptions 780 yards 13.4 YPC 8 TDs
 
Pats are going 19-0 ....

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Realistically, I will be happy with a 40-50 catch, 500 yard year from Dobson..

We really need to curb our expectations when it comes to Dobson. What Pats fans expectations on Dobson should be, is broken down very good by Rich over at Pats Pulpit.

http://www.patspulpit.com/2013/5/6/4306476/curb-your-expectations-aaron-dobson

And to be fair, how big are the shoes he's really filling? He's expected to come in and play at the same level of the departed veteran Brandon Lloyd, who let the fans down with a "pedestrian" 74 receptions, 911 yards, and 4 touchdowns.

But let's put that production into some perspective. Over the past five seasons, there have been 48 receivers drafted in the first two rounds. Brandon Lloyd's 2012 season?

#2 in Receptions [74] - Eddie Royal led rookies with 91 in 2008. Dwayne Bowe is 3rd with 70.

#6 in Yards [911] - DeSean Jackson posted 912.Justin Blackmon is next with 865.

#11 in Touchdowns [4] - Tied with Calvin Johnson and Sidney Rice.

So what does that mean? It means that if Dobson put up Lloyd's numbers as a rookie, he would have had one of the top five or six rookie seasons by a first or second round receiver of the past five years.

Perspective Pats fans, perspective..
 
This hope seems similar to our #2 last year, with better red zone numbers.

I would be more than happy, ecstatic really for Dobson to replicate Fitzgerald's rookie season;

16 games started 58 receptions 780 yards 13.4 YPC 8 TDs
 
Great example of what Cosell described in the OP's link. Fitzgerald may have run a 4.48, but big receivers *should* have slower 40 times. They typically play faster relative to their 40 time, compared to smaller guys.

Fitz actually ran a 4.63 at the combine.
 
Perspective Pats fans, perspective..

But let's put that production into some perspective. Over the past five seasons, there have been 48 receivers drafted in the first two rounds. Brandon Lloyd's 2012 season?

#2 in Receptions [74] - Eddie Royal led rookies with 91 in 2008. Dwayne Bowe is 3rd with 70.

#6 in Yards [911] - DeSean Jackson posted 912.Justin Blackmon is next with 865.

#11 in Touchdowns [4] - Tied with Calvin Johnson and Sidney Rice.

So what does that mean? It means that if Dobson put up Lloyd's numbers as a rookie, he would have had one of the top five or six rookie seasons by a first or second round receiver of the past five years.

I'm sorry but IMO the premise of that article is terribly flawed.

In the last five years, there have been 53 instances of a wide receiver getting 129 targets or more in a season. In 51/53 of those cases, that player surpassed 911 receiving yards. The other two cases are Lloyd in 2012 and Larry Fitzgerald 2012 season, who was playing with some combination of Kevin Kolb, John Skelton and Max Hall.

My point? People need to stop throwing around "but Lloyd got almost 1000 yards" as if its impressive. Toss 129 balls in a guy's direction and they will get yards. Lloyd gained the least impressive 911 yards you can possibly manage. If one of Dobson or Boyce gets the luxury of having 130 balls thrown at them, they will get 911 yards as well. Its hard not to hit 911 yards if you get targeted 130 times.

Furthermore, Lloyd's catch rate versus his YPC adds some context to Lloyd's production last season. Generally possession-style receivers catch balls at a more efficient rate, and deep threat types have lower-percentage balls thrown in their direction. Look at the following YPC numbers:

Kevin Walter HST 12.6
Eric Decker DEN 12.5
James Jones GB 12.3
Brandon Lloyd NE 12.3
Jason Avant PHI 12.2
Brandon Stokley DEN 12.1

As you can see, Lloyd's YPC was firmly among those of a bunch of slot, possession-style receivers. However, lets look at the Catch rates of these players:

Kevin Walter HST 12.6 64.1
Eric Decker DEN 12.5 70.8
James Jones GB 12.3 68.8
Brandon Lloyd NE 12.3 57.4
Jason Avant PHI 12.2 74.6
Brandon Stokley DEN 12.1 74.6

Lloyd's efficiency as a target was firmly below the rest of the group, despite the fact that he offered the same payout as a target as they did. They gave their teams the same YPC and did so more reliably. To put this in perspective, we may look at other players with comparable catch rates, in the sub 60% area.

Steve L. Smith CAR 57.5 16.1
Miles Austin DAL 57.4 14.3
T.Y. Hilton IND 56.8 17.2
Josh Gordon CLV 56.2 16.1
Cecil Shorts JAX 54.5 17.8
Chris Givens SL 54.5 16.6

A bunch of pure deep threats more or less. What is my point? Throwing the ball to Brandon Lloyd last season was a high risk/low reward proposition. All this talk about "replacing Lloyd's production" is misguided - RELATIVE TO HIS ROLE. To use a baseball term, his production was replacement level.

If Dobson plays well in a smaller role, I will be pleased. If he is mediocre in a larger one like Lloyd, I will be thoroughly disappointed and surprised, as most starting WR in the NFL could manage Lloyd's numbers given his opportunity.
 
Fitz actually ran a 4.63 at the combine.

I like when people actually pull players' real combine numbers. :) Don't forget Jerry Rice ran a 4.71 40 (seriously), and he's THE GOAT at WR. It's all about playing speed, and it looks like Dobson has a little bit of Moss in him with his sneaky fast strides (not comparing 40 time, but he's a long-strider).

The other thing that intrigues me about Dobson is that, despite his obvious size, they used him a lot on bubble screens, and he certainly showcased some wiggle and jets on them. Specifically, you can see that at the 2:44 mark here Ultimate Aaron Dobson Highlights (NFL Draft 2013 - 59th Pick // New England Patriots) - YouTube
 
I'm sorry but IMO the premise of that article is terribly flawed.

In the last five years, there have been 53 instances of a wide receiver getting 129 targets or more in a season. In 51/53 of those cases, that player surpassed 911 receiving yards. The other two cases are Lloyd in 2012 and Larry Fitzgerald 2012 season, who was playing with some combination of Kevin Kolb, John Skelton and Max Hall.

My point? People need to stop throwing around "but Lloyd got almost 1000 yards" as if its impressive. Toss 129 balls in a guy's direction and they will get yards. Lloyd gained the least impressive 911 yards you can possibly manage. If one of Dobson or Boyce gets the luxury of having 130 balls thrown at them, they will get 911 yards as well. Its hard not to hit 911 yards if you get targeted 130 times.

Furthermore, Lloyd's catch rate versus his YPC adds some context to Lloyd's production last season. Generally possession-style receivers catch balls at a more efficient rate, and deep threat types have lower-percentage balls thrown in their direction. Look at the following YPC numbers:

Kevin Walter HST 12.6
Eric Decker DEN 12.5
James Jones GB 12.3
Brandon Lloyd NE 12.3
Jason Avant PHI 12.2
Brandon Stokley DEN 12.1

As you can see, Lloyd's YPC was firmly among those of a bunch of slot, possession-style receivers. However, lets look at the Catch rates of these players:

Kevin Walter HST 12.6 64.1
Eric Decker DEN 12.5 70.8
James Jones GB 12.3 68.8
Brandon Lloyd NE 12.3 57.4
Jason Avant PHI 12.2 74.6
Brandon Stokley DEN 12.1 74.6

Lloyd's efficiency as a target was firmly below the rest of the group, despite the fact that he offered the same payout as a target as they did. They gave their teams the same YPC and did so more reliably. To put this in perspective, we may look at other players with comparable catch rates, in the sub 60% area.

Steve L. Smith CAR 57.5 16.1
Miles Austin DAL 57.4 14.3
T.Y. Hilton IND 56.8 17.2
Josh Gordon CLV 56.2 16.1
Cecil Shorts JAX 54.5 17.8
Chris Givens SL 54.5 16.6

A bunch of pure deep threats more or less. What is my point? Throwing the ball to Brandon Lloyd last season was a high risk/low reward proposition. All this talk about "replacing Lloyd's production" is misguided - RELATIVE TO HIS ROLE. To use a baseball term, his production was replacement level.

If Dobson plays well in a smaller role, I will be pleased. If he is mediocre in a larger one like Lloyd, I will be thoroughly disappointed and surprised, as most starting WR in the NFL could manage Lloyd's numbers given his opportunity.

Thanks. I really enjoyed reading your post.

But I honestly have no idea what it has to do with NFL receivers drafted in the first 2 rounds, and their production in there first year.

Llyod is just used as a baseline in the article. To point out to Pats fans that are expecting any kind of production similar from a rookie WR, is not realistic...

Now I have had a few wobbly pops tonight, so I might be reading your post wrong.
 
I'm sorry but IMO the premise of that article is terribly flawed.

In the last five years, there have been 53 instances of a wide receiver getting 129 targets or more in a season. In 51/53 of those cases, that player surpassed 911 receiving yards. The other two cases are Lloyd in 2012 and Larry Fitzgerald 2012 season, who was playing with some combination of Kevin Kolb, John Skelton and Max Hall.

My point? People need to stop throwing around "but Lloyd got almost 1000 yards" as if its impressive. Toss 129 balls in a guy's direction and they will get yards. Lloyd gained the least impressive 911 yards you can possibly manage. If one of Dobson or Boyce gets the luxury of having 130 balls thrown at them, they will get 911 yards as well. Its hard not to hit 911 yards if you get targeted 130 times.

Furthermore, Lloyd's catch rate versus his YPC adds some context to Lloyd's production last season. Generally possession-style receivers catch balls at a more efficient rate, and deep threat types have lower-percentage balls thrown in their direction. Look at the following YPC numbers:

Kevin WalterHST12.6
Eric Decker DEN12.5
James JonesGB12.3
Brandon LloydNE12.3
Jason AvantPHI12.2
Brandon Stokley DEN12.1

As you can see, Lloyd's YPC was firmly among those of a bunch of slot, possession-style receivers. However, lets look at the Catch rates of these players:

Kevin WalterHST12.664.1
Eric Decker DEN12.570.8
James JonesGB12.368.8
Brandon LloydNE12.357.4
Jason AvantPHI12.274.6
Brandon Stokley DEN12.174.6

Lloyd's efficiency as a target was firmly below the rest of the group, despite the fact that he offered the same payout as a target as they did. They gave their teams the same YPC and did so more reliably. To put this in perspective, we may look at other players with comparable catch rates, in the sub 60% area.

Steve L. SmithCAR57.516.1
Miles Austin DAL57.414.3
T.Y. Hilton IND56.817.2
Josh GordonCLV56.216.1
Cecil Shorts JAX54.517.8
Chris GivensSL54.516.6

What do these numbers mean: 12.357.4???
 
Thanks. I really enjoyed reading your post.

But I honestly have no idea what it has to do with NFL receivers drafted in the first 2 rounds, and their production in there first year.

Llyod is just used as a baseline in the article. To point out to Pats fans that are expecting any kind of production similar from a rookie WR, is not realistic...

Now I have had a few wobbly pops tonight, so I might be reading your post wrong.

Lloyd had possibly the least efficient and "quietest" 74/911 in history. He made an impact in 3-4 games and that's about it. Dobson could have a 55/700 season and still have a much "better" season than Lloyd's 2012 season.
 
Re: Re: NFL Films guru Greg Cosell compares Dobson to Larry Fitzgerald

What do these numbers mean: 12.357.4???

12.3?
57.4% of the time he made the catch
 
What do these numbers mean: 12.357.4???

Apologies for that. The forum cut out all the spaces that were between the numbers. It was supposed to be YPC first and catch rate second. For ex. that was supposed to be 12.3 (which is YPC) and then a tab and then 57.4 (Catch rate).

Thanks. I really enjoyed reading your post.

But I honestly have no idea what it has to do with NFL receivers drafted in the first 2 rounds, and their production in there first year.

Thanks for the feedback. My point was supposed to be that, rather than comparing Dobson to rookie wide receivers, we should compare him to the role he will be playing in. If Dobson does well enough to earn the #2 spot this season then he will be featured waaaay more than most rookies are.
 
I've been fairly bullish on this draft overall, but man I think I just soiled myself.

It will be a change from pooping your pants.
 
Yeah, Dobson is the next Larry Fitzgerald :rolleyes:

Dobson hasnt even caught a pass in a preseason game and these silly comparisons are being floated out there. Even after preseason nobody really knows about Dobson until real bullets start flying in the regular season.
 
Yeah, Dobson is the next Larry Fitzgerald :rolleyes:

Dobson hasnt even caught a pass in a preseason game and these silly comparisons are being floated out there. Even after preseason nobody really knows about Dobson until real bullets start flying in the regular season.

Don't get in the way of the love train.
 
Yeah, Dobson is the next Larry Fitzgerald :rolleyes:

Dobson hasnt even caught a pass in a preseason game and these silly comparisons are being floated out there. Even after preseason nobody really knows about Dobson until real bullets start flying in the regular season.

I guess reading comprehension just isn't a strong suit for some people.
 
Yeah, Dobson is the next Larry Fitzgerald :rolleyes:

Dobson hasnt even caught a pass in a preseason game and these silly comparisons are being floated out there. Even after preseason nobody really knows about Dobson until real bullets start flying in the regular season.

You are an idiot!! - YouTube
 
Before anyone posts something to the effect of "LOL he's no Larry Fitzgerald, that's crazy" (because we all know someone will) - go back and read the quote. Saying that a player reminds you of someone else isn't the same as saying you expect him to be as good as that other guy.

Just a pet peeve - I hate how topics like this always get derailed by misunderstandings of the initial claim.

Yeah, Dobson is the next Larry Fitzgerald :rolleyes:

Dobson hasnt even caught a pass in a preseason game and these silly comparisons are being floated out there. Even after preseason nobody really knows about Dobson until real bullets start flying in the regular season.

............:bricks:
 
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