Mac Jones 2021 Season Tracker: 3801 Yards, 22TD, 13INT

[DropKickFlutie]

Love this kid. Didn't care about saving the football of his first pass TD as they were trailing. On Sunday immediately started looking at Jets film, didn't even wait a day after the Dolphins game.

Mac Jones began watching film of Jets immediately after Sunday's loss

Mac Jones didn't take any time to look behind him after the 17-16 loss to the Dolphins on Sunday.

profootballtalk.nbcsports.com

 

[Betterthanmost]

If you have time, this is some quality stuff in Mac and his decision making. JT breaks it down and you can see what Mac is thinking. Very good use of 30mins if you are just relaxing.

 

[BobDigital]

I've been pumping his tires like everyone else here. But I feel like I need to throw some cold water on the pro Mac crowd. We've seen 2 games of him. He's proven he can play within a scheme and manage a game. But I've not felt from him for a single moment his ability to take over a game. I know it's early, but I'm starring to get a little worried. Yes we have seen 'flashes' but they are solid QB flashes. Romo and maybe Rivers flashes. I haven't seen him flash in a way that makes me feel like he'll be 'that guy'. And you shouldn't need to wait till year 2 to see it. It should be something we can see fairly early in year 1. If I don't see it in the next 2-3 games I'm going to start to really limit my high hopes and have more modest hopes.

 

[catent]

I've bern pumping his tires like everyone else here. But I feel like I need to throw some cold water on the pro Mac crowd. We've seen 2 games of him. He's proven he can play within a scheme and manahe a game. But I've not felt from him for a single moment his ability to take over a game. I know it's early, but I'm starring to get a little worried. Yes we have seen 'flashes' but they are solid QB flashes. Romo and maybe Rivers flashes. I haven't seen him flash in a way that makes me feel like he'll be 'that guy'. And you shouldn't need to wait till year 2 to see it. It should be sonething we can see fairly early in year 1. If I don't see it in the next 2-3 games I'm going to start to really limit my hugh hopes and have moee modest hopes.

It's been, as you said, two games, and you're worried about the 23 year old rookie who has completed 74% of his passes and hasn't thrown an interception? And if he doesn't demonstrate "ability to take over a game" within the next 2-3 games, you're going to limit your hopes for his career as a Patriot at "modest" ... if the 23 year old rookie doesn't singlehandedly take over one of his first 4-5 games in the NFL?

What does "flash" mean and how does one measure it? It sounds very subjective to me; he has to play a certain way within a certain timeframe to assuage your concerns ... but what does that actually mean about his career trajectory? I'd doubt much of anything.

Regardless, no player's career is defined after 4-5 games. Mac needs to take things game-by-game, get better every week, and try to play as well as he can right now. Limit turnovers, study opponents, work on his physical fitness/arm strength, identify parts of his game that can improve and fine tune those things.

He's a pretty darn good quarterback right now, and if continues to be committed to working hard and focused on the right things, he'll be an even better one in several seasons.

 

[BobDigital]

It's been, as you said, two games, and you're worried about the 23 year old rookie who has completed 74% of his passes and hasn't thrown an interception? And if he doesn't demonstrate "ability to take over a game" within the next 2-3 games, you're going to limit your hopes for his career as a Patriot at "modest" ... if the 23 year old rookie doesn't singlehandedly take over one of his first 4-5 games in the NFL?

What does "flash" mean and how does one measure it? It sounds very subjective to me; he has to play a certain way within a certain timeframe to assuage your concerns ... but what does that actually mean about his career trajectory? I'd doubt much of anything.

Regardless, no player's career is defined after 4-5 games. Mac needs to take things game-by-game, get better every week, and try to play as well as he can right now. Limit turnovers, study opponents, work on his physical fitness/arm strength, identify parts of his game that can improve and fine tune those things.

He's a pretty darn good quarterback right now, and if continues to be committed to working hard and focused on the right things, he'll be an even better one in several seasons.

Just to be clear. This is all very subjective. Something that is 'you know it when you see it'. Because of that I can't give an example of X Y and Z actions that I'm looking for. As for my 'take over a game' statement. That was not meant to mean he has to literally take over a game (though that would be great). It means I want him to show the potential to do so very soon. He hasn't shown that yet as far as I'm concerned.

It doesn't mean he can't be a decent starting QB for the next 15 years. But I don't want him to be decent. I want him to be great. I'm starting to have concerns he might not have that potential. As far as the timeline, it isn't at all unreasonable. I don't want him to be great in 4-5 games. I want him to show he can be great. Right now i haven't seen that yet.

This isn't some kind of unreasonable expectation. Most great QBs aren't great instantly, some are actually pretty awful at first, but just about all of them have moments to indicate they have that potential very early in their career. The idea that a QB goes from a steady compentent game manager that occasionally makes the impressive throw to a high end QB is the unrealistic idea. The idea of it taking 'several seasons' as you put it for a QB to grow him into his game is just not accurate. Almost always by year 2, year 3 at the least you see about 95-99% of a QBs total development. It's a very fast process, particularly for the QBs that are great.

Right now all Jones has shown to me is that he can be a better Alex Smith. A guy who can play the game competently, who can play within himself and who can make the occasional good throw. He hasn't done one single thing IMO to show he will be better than that yet. I think he will be, but the lack of flash plays and any big sequences aren't something that can be just shrugged off. It isn't a huge concern yet. But it will be soon. Sooner than I think most people want to admit.

 

[BigPeteG]

Just to be clear. This is all very subjective. Something that is 'you know it when you see it'. Because of that I can't give an example of X Y and Z actions that I'm looking for. As for my 'take over a game' statement. That was not meant to mean he has to literally take over a game (though that would be great). It means I want him to show the potential to do so very soon. He hasn't shown that yet as far as I'm concerned.

It doesn't mean he can't be a decent starting QB for the next 15 years. But I don't want him to be decent. I want him to be great. I'm starting to have concerns he might not have that potential. As far as the timeline, it isn't at all unreasonable. I don't want him to be great in 4-5 games. I want him to show he can be great. Right now i haven't seen that yet.

This isn't some kind of unreasonable expectation. Most great QBs aren't great instantly, some are actually pretty awful at first, but just about all of them have moments to indicate they have that potential very early in their career. The idea that a QB goes from a steady compentent game manager that occasionally makes the impressive throw to a high end QB is the unrealistic idea. The idea of it taking 'several seasons' as you put it for a QB to grow him into his game is just not accurate. Almost always by year 2, year 3 at the least you see about 95-99% of a QBs total development. It's a very fast process, particularly for the QBs that are great.

Right now all Jones has shown to me is that he can be a better Alex Smith. A guy who can play the game competently, who can play within himself and who can make the occasional good throw. He hasn't done one single thing IMO to show he will be better than that yet. I think he will be, but the lack of flash plays and any big sequences aren't something that can be just shrugged off. It isn't a huge concern yet. But it will be soon. Sooner than I think most people want to admit.

This makes total sense, IMHO. What you want to see out of QB is some occasional great plays - doing something that is a high degree of difficulty play - and getting it right. Because when you can do it once - you can do it again - and that consistency will lead to a player making the tough plays on a consistent basis.

I wonder if Mac has confidence in himself - as he has passed up a number of deeper throws for shorter safe throws.. It's the same thing in other sports.. When someone makes a dynamic explosive move to the basket and scores - they are flashing their talent - even if their outside shot is a little shaky at times.

We want to see if Mac Jones can be great - if he is the answer. The fun bit is we are going to find out in a few weeks I think.. So glad bb took a shot with the kid. I think he can do it..

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Mac Jones, week2 every completion:

 

[holyredeemer]

Love it. BGC is such a snowflake you even made your entire profile photo something geared for me. You're obsessed and I love it. I will keep living rent free in your thin skinned head. Keep being flat out embarassingly wrong on draft prognostications, or replying to yourself using obvious puppet accounts in the most self absorbed thread ever ( Things I Read II).

BGC= Biggest fraud on the forum

Holy ****?! What if BGC and DKF are the same damn person?! This would be the ultimate troll job folks.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

He's a pretty darn good quarterback right now, and if continues to be committed to working hard and focused on the right things, he'll be an even better one in several seasons.

How long did it take Brady to become TFB?

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Holy ****?! What if BGC and DKF are the same damn person?! This would be the ultimate troll job folks.

Made me smirk, nice. I am trying to figure out who NewEra is. Someone else said Stevenson, I don't really remember that poster. My initial guess was ring6. I can't remember who in the past had similar crazy posts claiming Tom Brady was a prima donna and also blaming Giselle somehow as well.

.

 

[venecol]

I wonder if Mac has confidence in himself - as he has passed up a number of deeper throws for shorter safe throws.. It's the same thing in other sports.. When someone makes a dynamic explosive move to the basket and scores - they are flashing their talent - even if their outside shot is a little shaky at times.

I never saw Mac play before the draft because I didn't watch any Bama games but there was a recent post (@zydecochris) that concerned me a bit. If he is in fact used to being risk averse (in line with what he said), it doesn't bode well for his NFL future. However, it's way too early to draw any conclusions.

Simpelton, your previous post was really spot-on, and insightful, thanks. However, I'm not sure if you were joking or not, but Mac was anything but turnover prone at Alabama, his senior year he threw 40 TDs to 4 (four) interceptions. His extreme care in not giving the ball away is EXACTLY what he did in college.

....So you might say, if he was so careful how did he get 40 TDs? It is because his OL consisted almost completely of high level draft choices that gave him plenty of time, and his 1st round receivers (Devonte Smith, Jaylen Waddle, John Metchie) were usually wide open. If he has time and the receiver is open, he hits them (at least once he has chemistry with his receivers), and his long ball was his strength. But in college he normally didn't try to zip it into tight windows because he was so turnover averse.

...That is why I originally thought it would be best to have Mac sit the first 5 games or so, he has been programmed to be turnover averse that I figured he would be accused of being to conservative early on (which, in fact, has been the case). At some point he will probably be coached to take some more risks and to try to zip the ball into tighter windows, but I'm not sure when that will happen. I doubt if it will be in the next three games against the defenses he will be going up against though, it may be quite a bit later in the season. Or, maybe they will simply want him to develop slowly this year and rely on his run game and safe passes, who knows?

 

[borg]

I can't remember who in the past had similar crazy posts claiming Tom Brady was a prima donna

I believe one highly regarded wordsmith accurately described 'Tommy' as Prima Tompa

and also blaming Giselle somehow as well.

.

and his Bay State hating 'birthing person' as Yoko

 

[zydecochris]

I never saw Mac play before the draft because I didn't watch any Bama games but there was a recent post (@zydecochris) that concerned me a bit. If he is in fact used to being risk averse (in line with what he said), it doesn't bode well for his NFL future. However, it's way too early to draw any conclusions.

Maybe this is just semantics, I don't consider a QB being risk averse a bad thing. There are great QBs who I would consider risk averse, in that they tried to take care of the ball and minimize INTs, and other great "gunslingers" that threw lots of TDs but also lots of INTs. I would argue that the ratio of TDs to INTs is an effective measure of how well a QB is able to throw TDs while managing risk and taking care of the ball. The top two all time in TD/INT ratio for over 10 seasons, followed by two prominent "gunslinger" QBs with among the lowest TD/INT ratio with at least 10 seasons: AllTimeTDtoINTQBLeaders

QB TD/INT
Aaron Rodgers. 4.6
Tom Brady 3.1

Dan Marino. 1.7
Brett Favre 1.5

Dan Marino and Brett Favre are considered by many to be among the greatest QBs ever, but they threw a ton of INTs. Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady are more careful about taking care of the ball, I would consider them risk averse. I personally prefer QBs that take care of the ball like Tom Brady (I admit I was surprised Aaron Rodgers was ahead of him in this category, maybe his receivers have been superior), but that is just me. I am hopeful that Mac continues to avoid turnovers and take care of the ball, but hopefully in time as he learns NFL defenses better the coaches will let him open up his game more and take more risks.

 

[venecol]

Maybe this is just semantics, I don't consider a QB being risk averse a bad thing. There are great QBs who I would consider risk averse, in that they tried to take care of the ball and minimize INTs, and other great "gunslingers" that threw lots of TDs but also lots of INTs. I would argue that the ratio of TDs to INTs is an effective measure of how well a QB is able to throw TDs while managing risk and taking care of the ball. The top two all time in TD/INT ratio for over 10 seasons, followed by two prominent "gunslinger" QBs with among the lowest TD/INT ratio with at least 10 seasons: AllTimeTDtoINTQBLeaders

QB TD/INT
Aaron Rodgers. 4.6
Tom Brady 3.1

Dan Marino. 1.7
Brett Favre 1.5

Dan Marino and Brett Favre are considered by many to be among the greatest QBs ever, but they threw a ton of INTs. Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady are more careful about taking care of the ball, I would consider them risk averse. I personally prefer QBs that take care of the ball like Tom Brady (I admit I was surprised Aaron Rodgers was ahead of him in this category, maybe his receivers have been superior), but that is just me. I am hopeful that Mac continues to avoid turnovers and take care of the ball, but hopefully in time as he learns NFL defenses better the coaches will let him open up his game more and take more risks.

I wouldn't consider Tom to be risk averse. ARodgers is definitely risk averse and one of the reasons for his lack of post season success.

 

[zydecochris]

I wouldn't consider Tom to be risk averse. ARodgers is definitely risk averse and one of the reasons for his lack of post season success.

Fair enough, different people can interpret who is or is not risk averse differently. Tom evidently takes considerably more risks than Rodgers, but not nearly as many as Favre who threw about 2 INTs for every 3 TDs.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

It's been, as you said, two games, and you're worried about the 23 year old rookie who has completed 74% of his passes and hasn't thrown an interception? And if he doesn't demonstrate "ability to take over a game" within the next 2-3 games, you're going to limit your hopes for his career as a Patriot at "modest" ... if the 23 year old rookie doesn't singlehandedly take over one of his first 4-5 games in the NFL?

What does "flash" mean and how does one measure it? It sounds very subjective to me; he has to play a certain way within a certain timeframe to assuage your concerns ... but what does that actually mean about his career trajectory? I'd doubt much of anything.

Regardless, no player's career is defined after 4-5 games. Mac needs to take things game-by-game, get better every week, and try to play as well as he can right now. Limit turnovers, study opponents, work on his physical fitness/arm strength, identify parts of his game that can improve and fine tune those things.

He's a pretty darn good quarterback right now, and if continues to be committed to working hard and focused on the right things, he'll be an even better one in several seasons.

You have to look at what you’ve seen along with the scouting reports about him. I disagree that he needs to “take over a game” any time soon in order to prove something, but I do agree that if he’s still throwing low-risk, low-reward only passes a month or so from now, it’s significant in light of that same concern causing him to drop in the draft.

 

[Jim Beankie]

Maybe this is just semantics, I don't consider a QB being risk averse a bad thing. There are great QBs who I would consider risk averse, in that they tried to take care of the ball and minimize INTs, and other great "gunslingers" that threw lots of TDs but also lots of INTs. I would argue that the ratio of TDs to INTs is an effective measure of how well a QB is able to throw TDs while managing risk and taking care of the ball. The top two all time in TD/INT ratio for over 10 seasons, followed by two prominent "gunslinger" QBs with among the lowest TD/INT ratio with at least 10 seasons: AllTimeTDtoINTQBLeaders

QB TD/INT
Aaron Rodgers. 4.6
Tom Brady 3.1

Dan Marino. 1.7
Brett Favre 1.5

Dan Marino and Brett Favre are considered by many to be among the greatest QBs ever, but they threw a ton of INTs. Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady are more careful about taking care of the ball, I would consider them risk averse. I personally prefer QBs that take care of the ball like Tom Brady (I admit I was surprised Aaron Rodgers was ahead of him in this category, maybe his receivers have been superior), but that is just me. I am hopeful that Mac continues to avoid turnovers and take care of the ball, but hopefully in time as he learns NFL defenses better the coaches will let him open up his game more and take more risks.

Thanks for that site. It made me think about finally doing a quick and messy comparison between eras for some QBs. I basically took the TD/INT ratio and divided it by the average TD/INT of the league over their entire career and created a new measurable called Deez. Also took Int% of the league over their entire career and took that over their Int% and created Nutz. Ideally I'd weigh each season and average that out, but ain't nobody got time fo dat (although on 2nd thought, I'm not sure that would matter). I shouldn't be surprised, but it's nice that Deez and Nutz are fairly correlated. Would love an all time comparison for a lot of players for Deez Nutz Sackz, ahem Stats.

	Td/Int	T/I-NFLAvgCar	Deez	Int%	Int%-NFLAvgCar	Nutz
Rodgers	4.57	1.66	2.75	1.40	2.70	1.93
Mahomes	4.80	2.00	2.40	1.40	2.35	1.68
Brady	3.06	1.57	1.95	1.80	2.83	1.57
Montana	1.96	1.04	1.88	2.60	4.02	1.55
SYoung	2.17	1.13	1.91	2.60	3.57	1.37
Marino	1.67	1.12	1.49	3.00	3.65	1.22
PManning	2.15	1.41	1.52	2.70	3.03	1.12
Warner	1.62	1.30	1.24	3.10	3.19	1.03
Favre	1.51	1.26	1.19	3.30	3.23	0.98
MJones	∞ (Humor me)	2.19	∞ (I know it's)	0	2.2	∞ (techn. undef.)

Mac Jones is currently on a really good pace for GOAT status. Just needs the rings.

 

[Jim Beankie]

I know I've mentioned this a bunch of times, but last year, MJones theoretically threw over 90% of this attempts to his first read: How Well Did Justin Fields Go Through His Progressions? | The Draft Network . Does anyone know what that percentage would be for the 1st 2 games?

 

[PatsWSB47]

Thanks for that site. It made me think about finally doing a quick and messy comparison between eras for some QBs. I basically took the TD/INT ratio and divided it by the average TD/INT of the league over their entire career and created a new measurable called Deez. Also took Int% of the league over their entire career and took that over their Int% and created Nutz. Ideally I'd weigh each season and average that out, but ain't nobody got time fo dat (although on 2nd thought, I'm not sure that would matter). I shouldn't be surprised, but it's nice that Deez and Nutz are fairly correlated. Would love an all time comparison for a lot of players for Deez Nutz Sackz, ahem Stats.

	Td/Int	T/I-NFLAvgCar	Deez	Int%	Int%-NFLAvgCar	Nutz
Rodgers	4.57	1.66	2.75	1.40	2.70	1.93
Mahomes	4.80	2.00	2.40	1.40	2.35	1.68
Brady	3.06	1.57	1.95	1.80	2.83	1.57
Montana	1.96	1.04	1.88	2.60	4.02	1.55
SYoung	2.17	1.13	1.91	2.60	3.57	1.37
Marino	1.67	1.12	1.49	3.00	3.65	1.22
PManning	2.15	1.41	1.52	2.70	3.03	1.12
Warner	1.62	1.30	1.24	3.10	3.19	1.03
Favre	1.51	1.26	1.19	3.30	3.23	0.98
MJones	∞ (Humor me)	2.19	∞ (I know it's)	0	2.2	∞ (techn. undef.)

Mac Jones is currently on a really good pace for GOAT status. Just needs the rings.

He's definitely promising but come on. comparing the first couple of games to all time greats first couple of games to project anything is a big stretch. Maybe you're just joking. Winston was on pace to throw 85 touchdowns after his first 4 quarters of play this year. Humor me

 

[zydecochris]

He's definitely promising but come on. comparing the first couple of games to all time greats first couple of games to project anything is a big stretch. Maybe you're just joking. Winston was on pace to throw 85 touchdowns after his first 4 quarters of play this year. Humor me

Well, I'm not sure if using two games to project performance compared to all time greats is much different than the posters that have already concluded that Mac has a noodle arm, is way, way, way too conservative and completely unable to take over a game based on his first two games as a rookie QB

....Or those posters that use his 16 starts at QB at Alabama to totally project his career in the NFL ....I'm trying hard not to look too shamefaced