Idle thoughts - the post draft overview...

[mgteich]

Re: Idle thoughts - the post draft overview....

???

We signed two veteran players who might share time with Wright at RDE. The YOUNGER one is Gerard Warren. The taller one (by 2 inches) is Gerard Warren.

Warren may be to fat to play, and may not even make the team. HOWEVER, we will see what condition he is in after a few weeks of camp and the preseason.

I'm fine with developing a DE as we have in the past, but I don't expect either Richard or Deaderick to have much impact in 2010.

A few pounds, and a few years. Warren might now just be too old, too slow & too fat to play an effective 3-4 DE here. He might as well eat a couple of extra Whoppers & compete for the backup 3-4 NT/4-3 DT role.

 

[captain stone]

Fair enough; and I don't expect anything out of Richard or Deaderick, either.

 

[Bostonian1962]

Ironic as can be. I'm reading your post, talking about Brady's success with dirt dog wide receivers. As I'm reading it, with the NFL Network in the background, Tom Curren is saying 'Brady had to make due with so and so and Jabar Gafney, and in '07 they finally gave him some tools and he threw for 50 TDs and went 18 and 0.'

I think Brady would have loved Dez Bryant just fine instead of Tory Holt.

 

[Bostonian1962]

Re: Idle thoughts - the post draft overview....

The signing of Warren goes under the radar because, well, because Gerard Warren sucks. I sincerely hope that he doesn't have to see any playing time this year and is just camp fodder. I do love the signings of Crumpler and Holt, though. And I feel as if we had a solid draft once again this year.

I tend to think you're going to be right, although I heard a talking head yesterday point out that Warren has played only on lousy teams, and you wonder if being on an excellent, well coached team, is going to make a difference for him.

I guess we'll all find out.

 

[Bostonian1962]

I highly doubt Cunningham was brought in to be a McGinest replacement. He's much more comparable to Vrable in terms of measurables and skillset.

??? Actually, I'm quite sure they do envision him (if things work out) as a McGinist replacement. As for measurables, I just looked up something that said McGinist was 6'4 1/2", 269 LBS. Cunningham is 6'3", 266 LBS. I'd say that's comparable. Vrabel is 6'4", 261 LBS. They're all fairly height weight comparable, aren't they?

 

[Bostonian1962]

Re: Idle thoughts - the post draft overview....

From the 4/24/10 Press Conference. Translated from Belichick speak he is saying Warren can play DT in the 4-3, NT, RDE and LDE in the 3-4.

Q: Speaking of Warren, do you see him at right defensive end, left defensive end?

BB: Well, he's played all over. He's played for the Raiders: he's played three technique, he's played one technique. For the Browns, he was an inside player. He usually played inside the tackles. In Denver, they moved him around a little bit as well. So I think that he's a guy that can really play from the tackle in. Like Damione Lewis, Ty Warren and Vince [Wilfork], guys like that, I don't think you're going to see him outside of the tackles very often. But from tackle to tackle, I think they can play from head-up-to-tackle to head-up-to-center and all of the spots in between. They've all done that. So he definitely has some versatility from both the left side, and the right side, and in different alignments in there, and on both early downs, and on passing downs - as Damione has, as Vince has. So think there's some versatility with players like that.

Unless I'm reading this quote wrong, it sounds like BB is saying Warren WILL NOT be playing a 5 Technique DE in the 3-4. He's saying he played all over, usually inside the tackles.

 

[patfanken]

Re: Idle thoughts - the post draft overview....

I tend to think you're going to be right, although I heard a talking head yesterday point out that Warren has played only on lousy teams, and you wonder if being on an excellent, well coached team, is going to make a difference for him.

I guess we'll all find out.

This is an important point. Don't forget that being a starter on a "lousy" teams means you are among the top 30-60 players in the league at your position. The worst player on a 53 man roster is a great player, relative to the rest of the football playing world. Gerard Warren's problem is that he's been a "good" football player who was drafted in a "great" players slot.

It all revolves around "expectations". So what are OUR "expectations" of Warren. If at the end of the year, Warren has proven that he can be a good but not great run stopping 3-4 DE/4-3 DT, who can provide "some" push up the middle and get 3-5 sacks and the pressures that go along with that number of sacks, then it was a great pick up. One that improved our defense.

No one is expecting an "impact" player, just an upgrade on the smaller Jarvus Green/Mike Wright combo. A player who added greater toughness and physicality to the DL. IF and I repeat IF, the Pats atmosphere, coaching, or just playing for a winning team leads Warren to play to his draft position potential, then so much the better. But IMHO, that's not what BB expects. He expects another "good" solid, physical, run stopper, who eats up snaps, and keeps the pass rushers from getting beat up.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Idle thoughts - the post draft overview....

...But IMHO, that's not what BB expects. He expects another "good" solid, physical, run stopper, who eats up snaps, and keeps the pass rushers from getting beat up.

Warren has never been a run stopper. If Belichick is expecting one, he's expecting to transform Mr. Warren.

 

[jczxohn1]

Re: Idle thoughts - the post draft overview....

The test of Warren and Lewis both will be how well they can adapt to BB's heady version of 2-gapping. One, I forget which, admitted to "looking forward to the challenge" after being primarily a penetrator during his career. Even in the 4-3, DL's are responsible for 2 gaps in BB's system.

 

[patfanken]

Now you bring up ANOTHER question. The question of IF BB is going to go more with penetrating DLmen, or at least have them penetrating/stunting more than in the past. If there is one thing we have learned over these past 10 years is that BB ISN'T bound by any particular system. If the talent and nature of the game has changed to the point where different techniques are called for, then BB will do what it takes to win games. We all have to admit that the game is a lot different than it was in 2003/4

At any rate it will be something to look at when the season starts

 

[patfanken]

Re: Idle thoughts - the post draft overview....

Warren has never been a run stopper. If Belichick is expecting one, he's expecting to transform Mr. Warren.

Like I said above.....maybe he ISN'T going to try and "transform" him.

 

[Kontradiction]

Re: Idle thoughts - the post draft overview....

So, your only objection to Warren at DE is that he needs to lose a few pounds? He has the size and frame to play DE.

No. I just want him not to suck as much.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Idle thoughts - the post draft overview....

Like I said above.....maybe he ISN'T going to try and "transform" him.

Ok, I seem to be missing your point. You talk about Belichick re: Warren

another "good" solid, physical, run stopper, who eats up snaps, and keeps the pass rushers from getting beat up.

Since Warren hasn't been a run stopper during his career, a transformation would seem to be needed. Could you please flesh out your point a bit for me?

 

[patfanken]

OK- I made my point on the basis that your take on Warren as NOT being a run stopper is true. You might be wrong on this but it got me thinking that PERHAPS BB is looking at how the game is being played these days and PERHAPS decided the best way to slow passing teams down is to change to a more "attacking" 3-4 and allow your DEs to get more push at the LOS. Perhaps he is looking to play more 4-3 on passing down, with 2 DTs collapsing the pocket.

Perhaps he is thinking the best way to affect the short passing game that everyone seems to be using is to create more pressure up the middle, not necessarily to get sack, but to force quicker decisions from the QB. QBs can defuse a good outside pass rush simply by a timely step up. Pressure up the middle is much more of a problem. Its more immediate, AND much more disruptive.

So my point is, that IF you are correct and Warren wasn't brought here to be a solid Patriot 3-4 DE two gapper, it might be a subtle signal to Patriot watchers that the Pats will be going to a more aggressive 3-4, a la the Steelers.

Hey it shouldn't shock us. We became the Colts on offense. Why not become the Steelers on D. We could do worse.

 

[Deus Irae]

OK- I made my point on the basis that your take on Warren as NOT being a run stopper is true. You might be wrong on this but it got me thinking that PERHAPS BB is looking at how the game is being played these days and PERHAPS decided the best way to slow passing teams down is to change to a more "attacking" 3-4 and allow your DEs to get more push at the LOS. Perhaps he is looking to play more 4-3 on passing down, with 2 DTs collapsing the pocket.

Perhaps he is thinking the best way to affect the short passing game that everyone seems to be using is to create more pressure up the middle, not necessarily to get sack, but to force quicker decisions from the QB. QBs can defuse a good outside pass rush simply by a timely step up. Pressure up the middle is much more of a problem. Its more immediate, AND much more disruptive.

So my point is, that IF you are correct and Warren wasn't brought here to be a solid Patriot 3-4 DE two gapper, it might be a subtle signal to Patriot watchers that the Pats will be going to a more aggressive 3-4, a la the Steelers.

Hey it shouldn't shock us. We became the Colts on offense. Why not become the Steelers on D. We could do worse.

Ok, now I see where you were heading. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Re: Idle thoughts - the post draft overview....

Warren will be a DE in the Pats 3-4.

I think so too. But I also expect a rotation, and situation substitution.

 

[AzPatsFan]

??? Actually, I'm quite sure they do envision him (if things work out) as a McGinist replacement. As for measurables, I just looked up something that said McGinist was 6'4 1/2", 269 LBS. Cunningham is 6'3", 266 LBS. I'd say that's comparable. Vrabel is 6'4", 261 LBS. They're all fairly height weight comparable, aren't they?

From what I recall McGinnest was just over 6'-5''. The Pats always listed Mike Vrabel as 6'4", but I recall that the Steelers listed him as 6'3 and 3/4". Jermaine Cunningham was listed as 6'3 and 3/8", so he too is between 6'3" and 6'4". Both ran 4.6+, while Willie was a freak and faster.

I suspect that Cunningham will be much like Vrabel. Both are smart, student's of the game, and complete players able but not superlative against both pass and run; and were drafted in the near third round. McG was in a class of his own, as you would expect for the 4th player picked in his Draft.

 

[SunnyDenmark]

To me it seems like this DLine is a decent situation with good competition in TC. Some vets (Lewis, Warren) who must be doing something right to be in the league so long. An in their prime player (Wright), and some new rookies who BB had graded at 4th round talent in '07 draft. It cannot be anything but an upgrade over last year with Green / Wright. Green seemed to have just given up the last few years - resigned himself to be a backup and coasting on his big contract extension a few years ago

No doubt there are alot of question marks in the defense. But I think most of them are 'good' question marks. Meaning alot of high draft picks being used on defense last 3 years. So who knows if it will be Spikes who will surprise or instead McKenzie. But both are 3rd round picks or higher (2nd Spikes). Will McCourtney shine or will it be Butler? Even higher picks used on them. So the winner of these TC battles should be a decent talent given their draft standing. When BB whiffs on the draft - it usually is with higher round offensive playmakers or lower round draft picks on defense.

Dline is talented and now deep. Only real weakness could be OLB but if Dline pans out could go into more 4-3 and anyway defense is in nickle over 50% of time. Important thing is NEP have resigned best defensive players this offseason -which while not giving headlines and selling jerseys -has allowed the draft to 'complement' and upgrade the defensive roster, instead of just trying to replace any departing FA's. Which allows rookies like McCourtney to gradually get added into the mix after learning the complex defense - thus gaining confidence. Instead of being thrown into the ring with the lions.

The defense last year was statistically one of the better ones. But it was a young defense which needs time to learn, develop and gell. Battle veterancy is not to be overlooked. Bill will be more involved with the D this year. Also with even more depth by high round draft choices added in this year and one extra year under their belt for the coming into their prime vets (Mayo, Merriweather, Boddin) -look for the Pats D to be one of the top 5 this year. Book it!

 

[Brady'sGOAT]

Re: Kendra Tape Watch

BAN THIS MAN :bricks:

 

[Kontradiction]

Gerard Warren has been better than I expected this season. And I've already seen the Kendra Wilkinson sex tape. It's "aight".