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Current Receiving corps vs Championship years


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NEPettyOfficer72

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Question posed to you is how does the current receiving corps from a talent standpoint compare to the one of 2003 and 2004 now that there is a good defense established.

2013
Danny Amendola, Julian Edelman, Kenbrell Thompkins, Shane Vereen, Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Dobson, Josh Boyce, Brandon Bolden, Austin Collie, Michael Hoomanawanui, Matthew Mulligan

2003-2004
Troy Brown, Deion Branch, David Givens, David Patten, Kevin Faulk, Ben Watson, Christian Fauria, Daniel Graham, Patrick Pass, Dedric Ward, Bethel Johnson

When making these comparisons, this includes ceiling and upside as well
 
Many of those were vets vs rookies. We may have more talent, and a higher ceiling but the wr's we need to help take this offense to another level are rooks.
 
Question posed to you is how does the current receiving corps from a talent standpoint compare to the one of 2003 and 2004 now that there is a good defense established.

2013
Danny Amendola, Julian Edelman, Kenbrell Thompkins, Shane Vereen, Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Dobson, Josh Boyce, Brandon Bolden, Austin Collie, Michael Hoomanawanui, Matthew Mulligan

2003-2004
Troy Brown, Deion Branch, David Givens, David Patten, Kevin Faulk, Ben Watson, Christian Fauria, Daniel Graham, Patrick Pass, Dedric Ward, Bethel Johnson

When making these comparisons, this includes ceiling and upside as well


I think the 04 group gets a nod because I think the top two WR options (Brown & Branch) are better than Amendola & Edelman.
The TE spot (once Gronk comes back) will be a big advantage to this year

But the rest of the team is the big difference.
RB was much better in 04
Defense was much better in 04 -- as much promise as this year's defense has shown, there was no doubt in 04 that they were filled with studs everywhere

And I'm going to say QB was a wash. I think 07-10 Brady was much better than 04 Brady; But I think Brady has declined a bit to levels he used to be at
 
This is rediculous the 03 WRs and 04 WRs were so much better than this group is playing right now. Right now 2 of the rookies have shown enough to make me think will/are good NFL players but they haven't shown to be better than Givens or Branch were in 03 and 04 and sure there is a ceiling that could be higher but thats really just speculation. And what was the ceiling of the old guard at that time (one could have thought Branch would go onto a hall of fame career based on the two SBs he played in).

Brown and Patten compared to Amendola and Edleman. This is closer than the comparison of the others but Amendola cant stay on the field and Brown was tough as nails and I would still give a slight edge to Brown and Patten even injuries aside.

The TE position becomes interesting because Clearly Gronk is far superior to Graham and Watson but both were pretty good in their own right and they can pull closer to gronk by nature of the duo compared to Gronk Whoman. But of course Gronk has to actually play for any of that to matter.

RBs again the position as a receiving threat is close and healthy I might actually give the nod to the current group because IMO Faulks best years came after the title runs 05-09 but with Vareen hurt we really have gotten almost nothing from the backs as receivers so the nod goes back to the old group.
 
Question posed to you is how does the current receiving corps from a talent standpoint compare to the one of 2003 and 2004 now that there is a good defense established.

2013
Danny Amendola, Julian Edelman, Kenbrell Thompkins, Shane Vereen, Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Dobson, Josh Boyce, Brandon Bolden, Austin Collie, Michael Hoomanawanui, Matthew Mulligan

2003-2004
Troy Brown, Deion Branch, David Givens, David Patten, Kevin Faulk, Ben Watson, Christian Fauria, Daniel Graham, Patrick Pass, Dedric Ward, Bethel Johnson

When making these comparisons, this includes ceiling and upside as well

On the whole, the WRs were easily better in 2003-04. Once Gronk is back, the tight ends will easily be better in 2013. But with Wilfork and Mayo out, the 2013 defense simply won't be as good as those years, even with the injuries that those teams had. IMO, anyone who's putting this defense up there with 03-04's is forgetting how awesome that front 7 was.

It's not even a knock on this year's team, really. The '04 team, in particular, was just insanely good.
 
There's no question that this current crop has more talent. The championship years had more reliability & dependability and that's what these current guys need to attain.

Being reliable and dependable is far more important than just what your pure talent is, especially on a team like the Patriots.

Once they get over their own uncertainties and mental errors, the sky is the limit for these new guys because their talent is definitely superior.
 
I believe that 2004 was one of the best NFL teams of all time. This team is not close. (and this is NOT a knock on this team, not at all)

2004 had a much better defense, especially now that Wilfork and Mayo are out.

The offense relied less on youngsters.
 
Question posed to you is how does the current receiving corps from a talent standpoint compare to the one of 2003 and 2004 now that there is a good defense established.

2013
Danny Amendola, Julian Edelman, Kenbrell Thompkins, Shane Vereen, Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Dobson, Josh Boyce, Brandon Bolden, Austin Collie, Michael Hoomanawanui, Matthew Mulligan

2003-2004
Troy Brown, Deion Branch, David Givens, David Patten, Kevin Faulk, Ben Watson, Christian Fauria, Daniel Graham, Patrick Pass, Dedric Ward, Bethel Johnson

When making these comparisons, this includes ceiling and upside as well

...Seriously?
 
2003 might be a wash. The offense in 03 wasn't all that great. In fact it was horrible at times. Almost every game came down to the wire, with the offense unable to get a win-sealing first down, and the defense had to save them many times.

In fact, without looking it up, the only game I really remember the offense moving the ball at will was the 2nd half of the Superbowl.
 
Let me give you a real assessment...

Danny Amendola - his ONLY knock has been his health. Its certainly not his skill or talent level as for when he is healthy he has been regarded by many experts, former players and anaylsts as a star talent in this league. Shined even with an average at best quarterback in Sam Bradford. In my honest opinion, whenever his durability is not a liability, his ability goes beyond what Wes Welker could ever do. He is a quicker, faster, stronger, more athletic, more explosive and a more versatile version of Wes that can not only play the slot at an extremely high level but stretch the field as well which is something beyond Welker's capability. Additionally, he has some clutch-ness to him, shear determination and a great set of hands that will not let you down in big moments. His precise route running, smarts and playmaking ability I would take over Deion Branch, Troy Brown, David Givens or David Patten any day of the week from this Welker 2.5 upgrade BUT can he get healthy come January?........

Kenbrell Thompkins has a higher ceiling then any four of the guys during the 2003 or 2004 season, I'm sorry but he does. He has the "it" factor and doesn't seem to allow the game to be too big for him. I always thought that his playmaking ability can be special once he puts it all together, and I'm not the only one that feels that way. I seem some young Chad, I see a little Holt and I also see the makings of a superb route runner once his polishing is complete. He'll shake off those rookie cobwebs and knuckle head drops but all in all this guy is something to look out for in the near future. A receiver that looks to be a 1,000 yard regular that is something the championship group receivers were not. They were dependable, solid, and clutch but they weren't what Kenbrell Thompkins could potentially give you. Heck, he is on pace to break a rookie receiving record with Tom, so Deion and David Givens will soon have to step aside if he keeps his projected pace.

Aaron Dobson - built like an athletic freak and had great hands coming out of college but is slowly getting over the dropsies. Physically, and from an athletic standpoint he has top 10 talent but needs to develop. I love his ceiling in that it may not be a top 5 Julio Jones, or Larry Fitzgerald, but it could be close and not far behind. Think about this, did any of the 2004 guys fit that category?? We all love them but I think not, not even Deion Branch during his best years.. And who is to say that at 6'4 or 6'3 and over 200lbs with some speed that he won't be a top 5? Heck, we've seen what he could do with his hands from College, once he puts it all together, once again I'm sorry but I'll take that over the 4 guys from 03 and 04 any day of the week.

Julian Edelman - another guy that's only been a question mark in the health department. Physically, its not much this guy can't so except jump balls of course and for lack of straight line speed what he does have is deep speed. Deep speed is the ability to get behind the defenders while focusing and concentrating on the ball while they are loosing speed. He has that, as I've seen him a few times succeed in those plays (Jets last year, and New Orleans this game on the INT that Tom threw, beat the defenders but ball was underthrown slightly). But aside from that, is there really a route this guy can't run? Think about it, his stats so far this season are pretty good, and go back to the season where he replaced Wes Welker while he was hurt. The guy broke a rookie record and put up a pretty good season. He has also what, taken reverses and smoke routes for big gains like Wes did, very good at those shallow and crossing routes and even took a few handoffs for big gains. The guy is a swissarmy knife and one of my top players to watch. I'll have to take him over David Patten and DEFINITELY Bethel Johnson and Dedric Ward without question but I'll pause at a prime Deion Branch and Troy Brown.

Austin Collie - a poor man's Danny Amendola or Wes Welker but less of a slot guy and more of an any route guy. If you watched him in Peyton Manning's offense when he was on the field and not suffering from concussions then you CANNOT question his ability or talent. Incredibly smart guy that again, outside of healthy can get open on anybody and often. But like I said, health is the only issue. Now if he can stay on the field, then there is no question I would take his ability and explosiveness over David Patten, and David Givens just solely based off how he broke ankles running routes for Peyton Manning and some of the amazing catches he has made. Reggie Wayne has taught him well... If he can stay on the field, then San Francisco made a big mistake...

Rob Gronkowski - self explanatory as in when healthy he is the best offensive weapon in the NFL over YES Jimmy Graham, THE BEST is GRONK when he is healthy... which you don't even need Christian Fauria, Daniel Graham or Ben Watson on the field with a guy like this. I'm talking potentially the greatest all around tightend in the history of the NFL. But again, health, health, and health is the question mark.

Shane Vereen is an upgrade over Kevin Faulk, who did some great things years back but Vereen's ceiling for someone who is already extremely talented and effective in the offense is incredible. He catches passes as though he is a no-***** wide receiver, as though it was his natural position AND he can run the ball well. A rare talent that's hard to find, that would have done even more damage in 03 and 04..

Brandon Bolden - all purpose back that is a solid receive and is a good runner. Immediate upgrade over Patrick Pass.

Looks like the ONLY theme is health and development. I can say this, that if Aaron Dobson's development speeds up and Kenbrell stays on the path he is on.. and that also Rob Gronkowski, Danny Amendola, Shane Vereen, Julian Edelman, and Austin Collie get healthy/or stay healthy and stay on the field by December and January time then this offense will be unstoppable and I mean it.
 
The 2004 offense was great. Dillon was a beast and DB and DG were clutch as hell, not to mention Troy.

This year's offense stinks.

2004's D was incredible, especially before Ty got hurt. This year'a has been fine but will be much worse with the injuries we now have.
 
The 2004 offense was great. Dillon was a beast and DB and DG were clutch as hell, not to mention Troy.

This year's offense stinks.

2004's D was incredible, especially before Ty got hurt. This year'a has been fine but will be much worse with the injuries we now have.

A few things... first off the offense in 2004 wasn't great, it was solid. Dillon, however was great and Troy and Deion were clutch. By the way, lets keep this on offense. Stevan Ridley gained 1,200 yards last year and I believe that's been the closest production to Corey Dillon since those days. I do believe that Ridley is the real deal and can be that consistent 1,000 yard to 1,200 yard rusher in the offense, sure he had fumbling issues but I believe he has fixed it. It's happened to the best of them. And not to mention that a healthy backfield, we actually have more flavor and options. LeGarrette Blount and Brandon Bolden, and Shane Vereen I believe are much more than Kevin Faulk, Mike Cloud and Patrick Pass outside of at least comparable backs in Ridley and Dillon as far as production. On the outside, like I said I love that Troy Brown and Deion Branch were clutch but from a pure talent, ceiling, upside, athleticism and all of those other variables I believe this receiving corps is better which is the entire point of this threat. The receiving corps, as we have to stay on topic.
 
I believe that 2004 was one of the best NFL teams of all time. This team is not close. (and this is NOT a knock on this team, not at all)

2004 had a much better defense, especially now that Wilfork and Mayo are out.

The offense relied less on youngsters.

guys, the op's asking about the receiving corps, not the entire team. :rolleyes: wilfork, ridley, dillon and mayo have nothing to do with the receivers. obviously the 2004 team as a whole was better - they won a championship, not to mention 21 games in a row going back to 03'.
 
Comparing two different eras of receiver at this point in time is a bit silly. In 2001/03/04 the team was filled with savvy veterans, while today the team is built around rookies.

With that said, this offense totally has a chance. Pressure just needs to be taken off the rookies and allow them to serve in a complimentary role. It all starts with Brady and the Offensive Line. If they can start tightening things up, then everyone - the WRs, TEs, and RBs - will be better. At RB, Vereen will return in week 11 and will add a whole new dimension that this offense has missed for all but 1 game of the season. He and Ridley are pretty dynamic when paired together. Gronkowski should also return soon this season, which will be a huge boost to the red zone offense at the least, and he should help out in run blocking as well.

If this team can grind out tough yards with Ridley and Vereen, be able to depend on one of Amendola/Edelman/Collie on actually being healthy and available come game day, allow Gronkowski to do his work and be a TD machine, then obviously much less attention will be paid to the rookies. They won't be facing #1 CBs all day, they won't be double covered. They won't be under the pressure of having to carry the offense.
 
They are missing the "David Givens" type at WR, the physical, possession receiver who also adds a lot of value in the run game.
 
That 04 team was just solid. Our current passing game isn't as clutch as the 04 squad but we are potentially more explosive. But the massive difference is Dillon. Ridley is good but he is no Dillon. Dillon was a power back that could bounce runs out and actually take it to the house. Dillon also had a devasting stiff arm. The closest thing to Dillon I have seen would be Steven Jackson.

If I could I would trade for Steven Jackson right now even at his age.
 
They are missing the "David Givens" type at WR, the physical, possession receiver who also adds a lot of value in the run game.

I kind of feel like gronk plays that role when he is split out wide.
 
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