Building your draft board position by position - week 3: Wide Receiver

[Box_O_Rocks]

My impressions from the first WR group:

u = unofficial time

no 40 time = I didn't get to see them run or they didn't make the top 5 players who NFL network reported.

Receivers I liked:
- Mike Hass - 4.61u - ran best gauntlet 1st time, lost rythm and got it back on second. Slower 40, but his "drill speed" was consistently good. Maintained his focus when he got in trouble in drill and was able to recover and finish strong. I'm biased after seeing him in Shrine Game, this kid replaces Givens with minimal effort.
- Jason Avant - no 40 time - ran two good gauntlets. He had some drops in Senior Bowl practices, but was his possession move the chains self in the game. I've seen him play the last two years and like his circus grabs on poor throws. This kid can replace Givens with a year of good coaching.
- Chris Denney - 4.7u - ran two good gauntlets. Nebraska-Omaha kid, had good drill speed and was recognized by his peers yelling for him. Good late round-UDFA prospect for a possession WR.
- David Anderson - no 40 time - ran two good gauntlets. Good drill speed. He disappeared in the Shrine Game, but I couldn't tell if he was covered well or the QBs weren't looking for him. Good late round-UDFA prospect for a possession WR.
- Ed Hinkel - 4.5u - ran two good gauntlets - took eyes off ball on one sideline catch, but had good drill speed. I watched him work his butt off to get open and try to help his scrambling QBs in the Hula Bowl (did I ever mention the QBs in that game sucked?). Good late round-UDFA prospect for a possession WR.


Proven guys who I think would be okay with good coaching and a little time in the system (they don't adjust as well to change):
- Jovon Bouknight - 4.74u - concentration - based on Combine drills only.
- Derek Hagan - 4.42 - concentration, slower game speed - made some tough catches in the Senior Bowl and some easy drops.
- Jason Carter - 4.62u - concentration - made some nice plays in the Shrine Game working with 'his' QB, should be a decent third WR.


Raw, need extra work - talent is there, just need to decide if it is worth the time/price of extraction:
- Chad Jackson - 4.32 - junior
- Will Blackmon - 4.46 - too many position changes
- Miles Auston - no 40 time - small school
- Marques Hagans - 4.62u - QB conversion
- Damarius Bilbo - 4.74u - QB conversion
- Chris Hannon - 4.43u - fast, concentration


Thumbs down:
- Hank Baskett - no 40 time - slow drill speed, trouble concentrating. Drills re-enforced Senior Bowl impressions.
- Skyler Green - 4.44 - inconsistent, too many body catches.
- Marques Colston - 4.43u - slow game speed. Drills re-enforced Shrine Game impressions.
- Devon Aromashadu - 4.35 - fast, but too many body catches.

Ran 40 only:
- Jeremy Bloom - 4.49u

 

[rookBoston]

Warning: these WR may all suck

It's really hard for me to get too pumped about either Chad Johnson or Santonio Holmes... or any of them, really. None of these players were Larry Fitzgerald or Mark Clayton in college. The best of them were on the good side of mediocre. So, let's not get too excited. Remember that Tony Simmons was big and fast, too.

IMO, there's no reason to even think about WR at #21. Urgent need aside, none of these players are worth it. At best, we'd be reaching for someone we want to fall in love with... based on hopes and projections, not reality. But where's the value?

The type of WR that's worth a first rounder is someone like Mark Clayton, who had a proven college career, outstanding hands and great route running. Combine 40 times are not differentiators between success and failure in the NFL.

I like what I've heard about Hass, but not as an early pick. Actually, I think Ed Hinkle is the kind of player we want to draft... 100% heart and hard work. And he may go undrafted. Another Bam Childress.
I'm as optimistic about that Bloom kid as I am about any of the rest of them.

I think we're as likely to get a legitimate starter by drafting a guy in the 4th or 5th round, as we are in the 1st. Let's wait till the 3rd round, and see what's left on the board.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

2nd WR group:

All 40 times unofficial

With only two exceptions, I thought this group of WRs did a very nice job. No body catchers, no slow runners. The biggest problem was running too fast and not under control.

Best body control:
Greg Jennings - 4.41u
Willie Reid - 4.41u
Richie Ross - 4.66u
Jeff Webb - 4.37u
Brandon Williams - 4.49u

No complaints:
Adam Jennings - 4.49u
Greg Lee - 4.62u
Brandon Marshall - 4.5u
Martin Nance - 4.58u
Ben Obomanu - 4.41u
Jonathon Orr - 4.49u
Cory Rodgers - 4.66u
Clinton Solomon - 4.62u
Maurice Stovall - 4.58u
Delanie Walker - 4.58u
Travis Wilson - 4.48u

Poor body control:
Anthony Mix - 4.45u
Todd Watkins - 4.41u

Not fully participating:
Sinorice Moss - 4.34u - 40 only.
Demetrius Williams - no 40 time - didn’t run the 40; my bias - I ignored his drills after seeing his alligator arms in the Senior Bowl.

 

[DaBruinz]

2nd WR group:

All 40 times unofficial

With only two exceptions, I thought this group of WRs did a very nice job. No body catchers, no slow runners. The biggest problem was running too fast and not under control.

Best body control:
Greg Jennings - 4.41u
Willie Reid - 4.41u
Richie Ross - 4.66u
Jeff Webb - 4.37u
Brandon Williams - 4.49u

No complaints:
Adam Jennings - 4.49u
Greg Lee - 4.62u
Brandon Marshall - 4.5u
Martin Nance - 4.58u
Ben Obomanu - 4.41u
Jonathon Orr - 4.49u
Cory Rodgers - 4.66u
Clinton Solomon - 4.62u
Maurice Stovall - 4.58u
Delanie Walker - 4.58u
Travis Wilson - 4.48u

Poor body control:
Anthony Mix - 4.45u
Todd Watkins - 4.41u

Not fully participating:
Sinorice Moss - 4.34u - 40 only.
Demetrius Williams - no 40 time - didn’t run the 40; my bias - I ignored his drills after seeing his alligator arms in the Senior Bowl.

Box -
When you say poor body control, can you explain a bit more why you thought that? Thanks

P.S. It will be interesting to see how Watkins and Orr do with their Shuttle times... That will also be a good indicator of body control. I think anyways.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Box -
When you say poor body control, can you explain a bit more why you thought that? Thanks

P.S. It will be interesting to see how Watkins and Orr do with their Shuttle times... That will also be a good indicator of body control. I think anyways.

They ran the gauntlet drill out of control, trying to run full speed instead of running at a game speed. It reminded me of Bethel hitting the afterburners and not being able to adjust his routes. The group as a whole was fast and confident in their hands and feet, Mix and Watkins just seemed to be too confident or trying too hard as they were unable to adjust as well for the deliberately off center throws. Some of the other guys pushed the envelope, but they made the plays which I didn't feel those two did when they ran the gauntlet drill which is really a nice test with the requirement to run a tight route and make rapid adjustments to the balls. Picky perhaps, but with so many other players running and catching as well it was a means of screening guys out.

 

[DaBruinz]

They ran the gauntlet drill out of control, trying to run full speed instead of running at a game speed. It reminded me of Bethel hitting the afterburners and not being able to adjust his routes. The group as a whole was fast and confident in their hands and feet, Mix and Watkins just seemed to be too confident or trying too hard as they were unable to adjust as well for the deliberately off center throws. Some of the other guys pushed the envelope, but they made the plays which I didn't feel those two did when they ran the gauntlet drill which is really a nice test with the requirement to run a tight route and make rapid adjustments to the balls. Picky perhaps, but with so many other players running and catching as well it was a means of screening guys out.

Thanks for the explanation. Unfortunately, I am one of those who doesn't have NFL Network so it helps to get the expanded information from someone I trust. Also, someone who has shown they have a good understanding of football evaluation.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Thanks for the explanation. Unfortunately, I am one of those who doesn't have NFL Network so it helps to get the expanded information from someone I trust. Also, someone who has shown they have a good understanding of football evaluation.

Your dooooooooommmed!!!!!

 

[DaBruinz]

Your dooooooooommmed!!!!!

That may be. I am getting married on the 4th of July... *LOL*

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

That may be. I am getting married on the 4th of July... *LOL*

I believe that situation means you'll be tormented - but my condolences to the lady, poor thing, putting up with such an cantankerous fellow.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Butch Davis likes:

name: ---------------- reason:
Jeremy Bloom - because he came from Italy to run the 40.
Jason Avant - catching the football.
Derek Hagan - because he is big.
Chad Jackson - 4.32 40, scored well in each testing drill.
Maurice Stovall - Charlie Weis trained him.
Demetrius Williams - 6 ft 197 lbs.
Brandon Marshall - 4.49 40, 6’4†229.
Marques Colston - 4.43 40 from Chrebet’s old college.

As well thought out as Butch's positions are, I can't help but wonder if he shares an agent with any of them?

Best 40 times:
Chad Jackson Florida 4.32
Willie Reid FL State 4.34
Devin Aromashodu Auburn 4.35
Sinorice Moss Miami 4.38
Jonathon Orr Wisconsin 4.41
Derek Hagan Arizona State 4.42
Adam Jennings Fresno State 4.42
Marques Colston Hofstra 4.43
Todd Watkins BYU 4.4
Jeff Webb San Diego State 4.4
Ben Obomanu Auburn 4.45
Will Blackmon BC 4.46
Miles Austin Monmouth 4.47
Brandon Marshall Central FL 4.49

 

[AzPatsFan]

Jason Avant a Big WR from Michigan ... runs all out on every pass patten, has great hands and terrific moves to seperate himself from DB's. Just saw him do the gauntlet drill and he was spectacular. Caught all the passes away from his body and ran the perfect line, then caught the last pass and got both feet down before going out of bounds.

I was alos impressed with Mike Haas. Chad Jackson looks like Adonis and runs like Mercury, but can't catch to save his life. He is not on my draft board at all.

Agree with everyone of your observations and on Jackson in particular. Tony Simmons had better hands... I'd take Hass with one of the fours, but was hoping to take him with the five...

 

[dryheat44]

The type of WR that's worth a first rounder is someone like Mark Clayton, who had a proven college career, outstanding hands and great route running. Combine 40 times are not differentiators between success and failure in the NFL.

I don't know. Derek Hagen racked up 3 1000 yard seasons at ASU. Doesn't that qualify as a proven college career?

Unrelated, I don't know where this perception of Jackson having bad hands comes from. I didn't watch a lot of Florida games, but in two I saw I don't remember him dropping any. And he dropped only 1 all day yesterday in the WR drills and QB drills. He looks to be a very natural "plucker". Soft Hands.

And again unrelated, Jeff Webb from San Diego State is certainly rising up my draft board.

 

[borisman]

But Spurrier has been gone from Florida U for 3 years now. So, at best, Jackson was a rookie under him.

That was my point.

 

[patchick]

I think we're as likely to get a legitimate starter by drafting a guy in the 4th or 5th round, as we are in the 1st. Let's wait till the 3rd round, and see what's left on the board.

This WR class frankly confounds me. It's always a hard position to project, since the offensive schemes and QB abilities are such a vast factor in college productivity. And this year not only is the talent a little thin, but the unpredicatbility is compounded by a large number of small-conference prospects.

And then there's a player like Mike Hass. Before the combine, after the combine, every word about him was positive...except his speed. Everybody seems to agree he's probably the most polished, complete receiver in the draft. Hands, footwork, route running, field awareness, football intelligence, character, intangibles, and above all productivity -- everyone projects a terrific NFL career. Then everybody pegs him around Round 4 in the draft, but says he deserves to go higher.

I'll just go ahead and say he will go higher.

 

[dryheat44]

This WR class frankly confounds me. It's always a hard position to project, since the offensive schemes and QB abilities are such a vast factor in college productivity. And this year not only is the talent a little thin, but the unpredicatbility is compounded by a large number of small-conference prospects.

And then there's a player like Mike Hass. Before the combine, after the combine, every word about him was positive...except his speed. Everybody seems to agree he's probably the most polished, complete receiver in the draft. Hands, footwork, route running, field awareness, football intelligence, character, intangibles, and above all productivity -- everyone projects a terrific NFL career. Then everybody pegs him around Round 4 in the draft, but says he deserves to go higher.

I'll just go ahead and say he will go higher.

Before the combine, I had him as mid-late second. I don't think he's done anything to hurt that. For all everybody here clamors for Samarwhatever out of ND next year, I think Hass is the better player. (Keeping with the long-standing theme that white receivers can only be compared to other white receivers)

 

[patchick]

(Keeping with the long-standing theme that white receivers can only be compared to other white receivers)

Yep, I keep reading how Hass is a "Chrebet clone," even though he's he's a tough 6'1" 210 and Chrebet was a sneaky 5'10" 186.

And this classic quote from an article when Hass won the Biletnikoff Award:

"He explodes to the ball when it's in the air, and uses technique and timing to get open, so he's like a Fred Biletnikoff or a Steve Largent or a Wayne Chrebet."

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

http://www.gbnreport.com/

Mixed bag for receivers… While the QBs were, for the most part, on the mark at yesterday’s Combine workout, it was something of an up-and-down day for the WRs. In particular, there were an inordinate number of dropped passes on the day. No such problems, though, for Jason Avant of Michigan or Mike Hass of Oregon State who showed the most consistent hands on the day. On the other hand, Will Blackmon of Boston College, who caught the ball like the CB he will likely end up as a pro, Devin Aromoshodu of Auburn, and Cory Rodgers of TCU really struggled catching the ball. On the other hand, the WR corps showed plenty of speed. Indeed, Florida junior Chad Jackson emerged as the star of the day when he scorched a 4.32 40. Jackson also caught the ball reasonably well, but still showed some roughness at the edges. The Gators’ Jackson edged out Florida State’s Willie Reid (4.34), Auburn’s Aromoshodu (4.35) and Sinorice Moss of Miami (4.38) among the fastest WRs. A number of other WRs also made some money posting unexpectedly fast 40 times including Greg Jennings of Western Michigan, Derek Hagan of Arizona State, Jeff Webb of San Diego State, and Ed Hinkel of Iowa, all decent possession type receivers each of whom answered questions about a lack of pure foot speed with unexpected times in the 4.4-4.5 range. Meanwhile, former Colorado WR Jeremy Bloom, who was last seen skiing in the Winter Olympics in Italy, ran a respectable 4.49 for the 40.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

My wide receiver board isn't set up by round, I'm going to need more time to consider the advantages of each type of player. I've grouped the receivers in loose categories for the time being.

-----

ypg = avg. reception yards per game
ypc = avg. yards per catch
apy = avg. all purpose yards per game
() = national rank
u = unofficial
PR = punt return
KR = kick return

-----

Best Hands
- Mike Hass, 6'1" 210, Oregon State, 4.61/4.62u, 139.37 ypg (1), 17.02 ypc, 140.91 apy (22)

- Jason Avant, 6'1" 210, Michigan, no 40, 83.92 ypg (32), 12.2 ypc

Possession
- Greg Jennings, 5'11" 197, Western Michigan, 4.41u, 114.45 ypg (2), 12.85 ypc, 8.6 PR avg, 136.45 apy (29)

- Ed Hinkel, 6'0" 190, Iowa, 4.5/4.51u, 57.56 ypg (94), 12.95 ypc, 9.1 PR avg

- David Anderson, 5'11" 195, Colorado State, 101.75 ypg (7), 14.2 ypc, 105.92 apy (85)

- Jovon Bouknight, 6'1" 189, Wyoming, 4.74u, 101.45 ypg (9), 14.49 ypc, 27.75 KR avg, 160.45 apy (10)

- Jeff Webb, 6'2" 200, San Diego State, 4.4, 92.42 ypg (21), 12.05 ypc, 93.42 apy

- Greg Lee, 6'2" 200, Pittsburgh, 4.62u, 87.45 ypg (28), 19.63 ypc

Power
- Brandon Marshall, 6'4.5" 229, Central Florida, 4.49, 91.92 ypg (22), 16.15 ypc, 92.15 apy

- Maurice Stovall, 6'4" 217, Notre Dame, 4.58u, 95.75 ypg (15), 16.65 ypc, 95.83 apy

- Chris Denney, 6'3" 224, Nebraska-Omaha, 4.7u, 87 ypg (29), 20.61 ypc

- Richie Ross, 6'4" 209, NE-Kearny, 4.66u, 113.3 ypg (4), 15.6 ypc

- Martin Nance, 6'5" 210, Miami (OH), 4.58u, 100.64 ypg (11), 13.67 ypc, 101.18 apy

- Miles Austin, 6'3" 219, Monmouth, 4.47, 125.5 ypg (3), 20.49 ypc, 137.88 (17) apy

Twigs
- Sinorace Moss, 5.8" 185, Miami (FL), 4.38, 51.16 ypg, 16.59 ypc, 17.6 KR avg, 63.08 apy

- Brandon Williams, 5'9" 179, Wisconsin, 4.49u, 84.23 ypg (31), 18.56 ypc, 14.62 PR avg, 28 KR avg, 164.46 (8)

- Willie Reid, 5'10" 186, Florida State, 4.34, 63.4 ypg (73), 12.68 ypc, 17.45 PR avg, 18.13 KR avg, 132.5 apy (35)

Slash
- Damarius Bilbo, 6'2" 224, Georgia Tech, 4.74u, 49.25 ypg, 14.78 ypc

- Marques Hagans, 5'10" 209, Virginia, 4.62/4.63u

- Jason Carter, 6'0" 205, Texas A&M, 4.62u, 75.18 ypg (49), 15.31 ypc, 19.11 KR avg, 115.45 apy (65)

- Maurice Avery, 6'1" 216, Memphis, no 40, 19.6 ypc, 71.6 apy/13.3 yds per pass comp/57% comp

- Reggie McNeal, 6'2" 209, Texas A&M, 4.35, 78 rush yds per game/53% pass completion

Returner
- Adam Jennings, 5'10" 175, Fresno State, 4.42, 23.17 ypg, 12.64 ypc, 12.36 PR avg (17), 29 KR avg (7), 95.75 apy

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Qualities Pats look for at WR

Before I discuss my WR candidate (depending on how he runs), I wanted to list the skills I see as vital in order to play WR for BB.

1.) Short area quickness. WRs must possess extreme quickness in order to create separation. The agility tests are key here. While speed is king to most, BB likes quick twitch type guys.
2.) Hands. While it can be taught to some extent, BB does not take to body catching.
3.) Intelligence. BB requires his WRs to read defenses and adjust accordingly.
4.) Physical at the LOS. If you aren't physical enough to beat press coverage at the LOS, don't try out for the PAts.
5.) Blocking. The WR doesn't have to be Hog Hannah, but he should at least be able to make a defender go around him.

My candidate for WR is the Penn State QB. (depending on how he runs) I think he's well worth the gamble.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Before I discuss my WR candidate (depending on how he runs), I wanted to list the skills I see as vital in order to play WR for BB.

1.) Short area quickness. WRs must possess extreme quickness in order to create separation. The agility tests are key here. While speed is king to most, BB likes quick twitch type guys.
2.) Hands. While it can be taught to some extent, BB does not take to body catching.
3.) Intelligence. BB requires his WRs to read defenses and adjust accordingly.
4.) Physical at the LOS. If you aren't physical enough to beat press coverage at the LOS, don't try out for the PAts.
5.) Blocking. The WR doesn't have to be Hog Hannah, but he should at least be able to make a defender go around him.

My candidate for WR is the Penn State QB. (depending on how he runs) I think he's well worth the gamble.

I like your skill set. I would like to have seen Robinson at WR in a game or running the gauntlet drill like Hagans of Virginia did at the Combine. What little I did see of him in the Senior Bowl showcased his running more then his decision making and hands. If your looking for a QB conversion, Avery of Memphis caught my eye in the Hula Bowl. He made a sweet block to spring the RB for a nice gain on a wheel route. He also had a two minute drill catch where he adjusted to a ball thrown behind him, broke a tackle to get the first down and then got out of bounds. I'll be watching for his Pro-Day data, but I would love to see him signed to a FA contract.