Ball never touched the ground

[bresna]

In my mind, if the ball touched the ground it was an incomplete pass. If the ball didn't touch the ground it was a completion. I couldn't tell from the replays if the ball hit the ground or not. If the ref's ruled that it did hit the ground they made the right call. If it didn't hit the ground they were wrong.

They were right (on the field) and wrong in the replay room back in the Jets video room at MetLife Stadium in New York.

 

[goheels22002]

As a matter of fact, the NFL head of officiating did comment on it and screwed it up even more by quoting the old rule.

Here's the head of officiating's comments on the play right here:
“Because as he’s going to the ground, he has to maintain control of the ball upon contacting the ground,” Anderson said. “The term that’s commonly used is ‘surviving the ground.’ A lot of people refer to that. So, as he’s going to the ground, he has the elements of two feet and control, but because he’s going to the ground, he has to maintain control of the ball when he does go to the ground.”

And here's the NFL's own webpage talking about the 2018 rule change:
The key change to the rule eliminated the "going-to-the-ground" element of the previous rule."

That's from their own webpage! They eliminated "going to the ground" completely from the catch rules in 2018 and here is the head of officiating using the phrase "ground" 6 times in 4 sentences while describing why they called it incomplete.

This was a screw job, plain & simple.

By the new rules, this was a catch here:
View attachment 47722

And once his knee hit, which was before the ball came anywhere near the ground, it was complete & a TD.

If Hunter Henry were a running back, that's a TD. The ball is in his possession when the ball breaks the plane inbounds. The NFL must fix this stupid rule.

We need a game where the defense shuts down the opponent and Mac goes off for >300 yards, a couple of TDs and no INTs. His QBR was 119.8 on Thursday night- damn near perfect. Mac's got three games in a row with no INTs and a completion percentage over 66%. Turn him loose.

 

[goheels22002]

In my mind, if the ball touched the ground it was an incomplete pass. If the ball didn't touch the ground it was a completion. I couldn't tell from the replays if the ball hit the ground or not. If the ref's ruled that it did hit the ground they made the right call. If it didn't hit the ground they were wrong.

The football came loose after he lifted his hands off the ground and then he regained control. By then the ball had crossed the plane in his control and all the rest of it was superfluous.

 

[Tom Tupa]

I do believe it was a pretty clear cut catch. There were several bad calls in the game that went against us, but good football teams overcome those. The Patriots have to find a way to get back to a point where these things don't absolutely kill us.

 

[bresna]

I do believe it was a pretty clear cut catch. There were several bad calls in the game that went against us, but good football teams overcome those. The Patriots have to find a way to get back to a point where these things don't absolutely kill us.

But why should they have to?? These are paid professional referees who should not be messing up this badly.

Here's an article citing 5 blatantly messed up calls: 5 shocking, yet blatantly, missed calls by officials in Patriots-Vikings game
The missed holding call that cost the Patriots 7 points:

Several penalties against the Vikings on another kick return:

Obvious holding on the Vikings on several plays. Here's one:

The facemask penalty that everyone saw but the refs, that likely cost the Patriots a chance to get back in the game:


And then the overturned TD that cost the Patriots 4 points.

Remember, they only lost by 7 points. If these had been called right, they wouldn't have had to overcome anything except the Vikings themselves.

 

[Tom Tupa]

But why should they have to?? These are paid professional referees who should not be messing up this badly.

Here's an article citing 5 blatantly messed up calls: 5 shocking, yet blatantly, missed calls by officials in Patriots-Vikings game
The missed holding call that cost the Patriots 7 points:

Several penalties against the Vikings on another kick return:

Obvious holding on the Vikings on several plays. Here's one:

The facemask penalty that everyone saw but the refs, that likely cost the Patriots a chance to get back in the game:
View attachment 47747

And then the overturned TD that cost the Patriots 4 points.

Remember, they only lost by 7 points. If these had been called right, they wouldn't have had to overcome anything except the Vikings themselves.

Well, I hadn't seen all of that, so I guess I didn't realize the extent of the terrible officiating. From now on, we'll refer to this game as the "Minnesota Screwjob".

 

[captain stone]

Right. At the time. And they changed the rule in 2018 so it wouldn’t happen again.

That was a BAD rule change. It was Already a perfectly good definition of "catch."

 

[captain stone]

If Hunter Henry were a running back, that's a TD. The ball is in his possession when the ball breaks the plane inbounds. The NFL must fix this stupid rule.

But he wasn't, so it's not... It WAS a catch, however.

And there was nothing wrong with the rule as written before the whole Jesse James idiocy (which was NOT a catch, BTW).

 

[captain stone]

The football came loose after he lifted his hands off the ground and then he regained control.

True; that's why the ruling should've been catch but no TD.

By then the ball had crossed the plane in his control and all the rest of it was superfluous.

Doesn't matter if the ball had crossed the goal line; he hadn't completed the catch process yet.

 

[captain stone]

But why should they have to?? These are paid professional referees who should not be messing up this badly.

Here's an article citing 5 blatantly messed up calls: 5 shocking, yet blatantly, missed calls by officials in Patriots-Vikings game5 shocking, yet blatantly, missed calls by officials in Patriots-Vikings game

The missed holding call that cost the Patriots 7 points:

Even more egregious than the hold on Dugger was the TACKLE FROM BEHIND of Jabrill Peppers... The beginning of that non-call can be seen on the far right as the video starts...

The facemask penalty that everyone saw but the refs, that likely cost the Patriots a chance to get back in the game:
View attachment 47747

And then the overturned TD that cost the Patriots 4 points.

Remember, they only lost by 7 points. If these had been called right, they wouldn't have had to overcome anything except the Vikings themselves.

There was also no call for obvious Illegal Contact made with Henry on the VERY SAME DAM PLAY!!
Pats should've had the ball, 1st down, on the Vikings 45.
(Full disclosure, however: Just what the **** were he & Thornton doing at the very same place at the very same time anyway?)

 

[upstater1]

The TD pass catch rule is completely counterintuitive. If a runner breaks the plane with the ball it is a TD regardless of what happens afterward. The same should be true for TD catches. If the receiver has control of the ball when the ball breaks the plane, it's instantly a dead ball and nothing else matters. The decisive factor on replay should be whether the receiver had control of the ball, just like on out of bounds calls. In the case of the end zone, the player can regain control while in the end zone before he goes out of bounds for the TD.

Is there a way for a fan petition signed by a zillion of us to put something on the Competition Committee Agenda?

And Dugger was held on the kickoff return for a TD..

I can't agree with this. It would then bring time into the arbitrary decision making process. Remember when the Baltimore receiver caught the ball in the AFCCG in 2011 but the ball was then knocked out of his hand at the last second? New England would've lost that game if the ref saw possession in the end zone and blew the whistle. The football move element of the rule is what allowed our CB to knock the ball out of his hands

 

[neuronet]

I can't agree with this. It would then bring time into the arbitrary decision making process. Remember when the Baltimore receiver caught the ball in the AFCCG in 2011 but the ball was then knocked out of his hand at the last second? New England would've lost that game if the ref saw possession in the end zone and blew the whistle. The football move element of the rule is what allowed our CB to knock the ball out of his hands

That was different as that entire play was in the end zone he never had possession to begin with.

 

[Nehalem]

If Hunter Henry were a running back, that's a TD. The ball is in his possession when the ball breaks the plane inbounds. The NFL must fix this stupid rule.

We need a game where the defense shuts down the opponent and Mac goes off for >300 yards, a couple of TDs and no INTs. His QBR was 119.8 on Thursday night- damn near perfect. Mac's got three games in a row with no INTs and a completion percentage over 66%. Turn him loose.

If he catches the ball 10 yards from the end zone, runs it in and then fumbles it after breaking the plane its also a TD. The issue is he didn't complete the catch before breaking the plane, and then lost his grip when going to the ground.

I honestly think the officials just got really confused on what to call. The ball doesn't seem to have ever hit the ground, certainly no evidence of it. But on the other hand he did lose control at least temporarily after breaking the plane. The correct, and most reasonable call, is completed catch on the 1/2 yard line. But the officials were probably too baffled by the chain of events to come to that conclusion in the 1 minute of replay time.

 

[Nehalem]

That was different as that entire play was in the end zone he never had possession to begin with.

I think it was different because the ball clearly hit the ground in that case.

 

[The Brandon Five]

Well, I hadn't seen all of that, so I guess I didn't realize the extent of the terrible officiating. From now on, we'll refer to this game as the "Minnesota Screwjob".

Minnesota Screwjob™

 

[Patsfan177a]

the NFL Officiating Headquarters has apologized for screwing up the call

When did they do that? This is the only place I have seen this.

 

[crawhammer]

When did they do that? This is the only place I have seen this.

They didn't. Which was my point. I think the league believes it was an incompletion and to this moment they stand behind it.

Look, worst case scenario, the reversal cost them 4 points. They still took the lead there 26-23 and there was 6:43 left in the 3rd quarter. The offense did nothing from there on out... 3-and-out punt, 3-and-out punt, downs, end of game. And the running into the kicker penalty cost them 7 4th quarter points, which was the ultimate difference in the game.

 

[bresna]

I can't agree with this. It would then bring time into the arbitrary decision making process. Remember when the Baltimore receiver caught the ball in the AFCCG in 2011 but the ball was then knocked out of his hand at the last second? New England would've lost that game if the ref saw possession in the end zone and blew the whistle. The football move element of the rule is what allowed our CB to knock the ball out of his hands

But that happened before the receiver's feet touched the ground. That should always be incomplete. But if the receiver catches the ball and comes down with two feet - that's a catch & TD even if the DB rips it out.

 

[upstater1]

But that happened before the receiver's feet touched the ground. That should always be incomplete. But if the receiver catches the ball and comes down with two feet - that's a catch & TD even if the DB rips it out.

Before he made a football move. He got 2 feet down

 

[zipster9]

Can't do this if you expect to win games...