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That’s true the Patriots will not be able to choose their QB. That doesn’t mean the Patriots will not like whoever end up at 3. My feeling is that they like both Daniels and Maye.


Because that player will not be as valuable as a QB. If the Patriots don’t take a QB at 3, they should trade down between 6 and 12 accumulate assets and draft a WR or an OT.

The Ayer is immensely more valuable if they're a NFL level talent.

It's a useless pick if the player is picked because of position and they're just another Mac.

It's their job to know that. If they know Daniels isn't the guy, they're wasting our pick taking him just cause they need a QB.
 
My point is that there are no leftovers at Pick 3. Whoever your picking is going to be highly talent unless you've got drooling morons making the pick (some teams do).

My point is simple. You are left with the QB the top two teams don't want.

Is this not true? Or are you going to try and argue semantics all morning.

It's a leftover pick.
 
My point is simple. You are left with the QB the top two teams don't want.

Is this not true? Or are you going to try and argue semantics all morning.

It's a leftover pick.
My point is you can't see the future and you don't know where the Pats have the top QB's ranked.

Is this not true?
 
Yes, the issue is "if" the team doesn't want any of the top QB's. I believe that they likely will want at least 4 of the 6 QB's. The question is whether to make a pick at 3 or trade down a bit. Obviously, trading down when you know one of your QB's is there is very risky. Of course, some team might pay handsomely for us to take some risk.

Mayo is dead on arrival if the Patriots trade down and take one of those lame QBs from Michigan or Washington.

Fans won't accept that.
 
My point is you can't see the future and you don't know where the Pats have the top QB's ranked.

Is this not true?

Why are we even here if you only wanna talk about the past. Which is the only thing that can be unequivocally quantified as fact.
 
The Patriots got the last pick of the top QBs.

They're in line to get the last pick of the TOP QBs.
OK, I disagree with your assessment.

In the Mac, draft I do not, do not believe that there were five top QB's. There was one, and the 4 second tier QB's.

In this draft, there are arguably 2 top QB's, a 2nd tier of 2, and a 3rd tier of 2. Some would say that there are 4 top QB's,
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Why are we even here if you only wanna talk about the past. Which is the only thing that can be unequivocally quantified as fact.
Past? What?

I'm talking about the present. As in right now we don't know what's going to happen in a month when the draft happens. You're ready to admonish the front office for picking a player they haven't picked yet.
 
OK, I disagree with your assessment.

In the Mac, draft I do not, do not believe that there were five top QB's. There was one, and the 4 second tier QB's.

In this draft, there are arguably 2 top QB's, a 2nd tier of 2, and a 3rd tier of 2. Some would say that there are 4 top QB's,
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If the Patriots trade back and grab JJ for example who's probably worse than Mac, you justify this how? Cause they got a future 1st and a third?

How do you justify it known that you're passing on Maye or Daniels and then whoever it is turned into a stud?

By your own admission there is only two top QBs in the draft.

Patriots get none of the two in either scenario if the top two teams see it how you see it.
 
Past? What?

I'm talking about the present. As in right now we don't know what's going to happen in a month when the draft happens. You're ready to admonish the front office for picking a player they haven't picked yet.

As of right now the only thing you know for a fact are things that have already happened.

If you don't wanna talk about the draft then why are you hell bent on telling me I'm wrong. Worry about today.
 
Then I don't want to hear about cap space. In your scenario, there's no need for it.

There weren't a lot of playmakers available in FA. The ones that were, the Patriots did not get, whether they actually bothered to or not, and simply filled in the gaps with the usual dumpster diving.

The team needs talent. Even if you hit on all 7 picks in the draft, there needs to be more talent. If the offense is as bereft of talent as everyone said - and the team was 4-13 last year, dumpster pickings and re-signing your own players from a 4-13 team is simply not good enough, not by a long shot.

Even if you hit on everyone, it's 7 rookies. There is a lack of talent on the team. Scrubs will not help the rookies get better. If the Patriots think they're going to get better with Jayden Daniels, Xavier Worthy and whatever tackle is left in this year's draft. Mike Onwenu, Hunter Henry and Kendrick Bourne were all part of the 4-13 offense, and they're all back. You mean to tell me that that's the best we can do? Really? Then how bereft of talent is the team exactly, if those guys are good enough to bring back? If it's just the QB, you need to get the best QB possible, and that's not Jayden Daniels. If it's WR, why re-sign Kendrick Bourne? Why not do anything in free agency to improve the position, when you have 100 million in cap space, and double that next year? Why let one of the top LT in FA walk for nothing, and do nothing to address the position. Trent Brown sucks? I agree at times. How about bringing in another LT who's better, or who will at least try? No? More dumpster diving?

There's no point in even mentioning the cap space, if it's not going to get used in any meaningful way in a rebuild.

If you can't get talent in FA, you trade for it. If you can't trade for it, then why are you signing 30-year-olds to short term deals? Outside of Gibson and Chu, that's what they're doing, and those are hardly game-changing signings. Because it looks an awful lot like you're just signing roster filler to fill the roster, to keep the cap from the floor number. When the FA and draft is done, and you hear from Tom E Curran that our 30 million in rollover cap space is a good thing, wonder why we're rolling over cap space. Wonder why the owner who was crying about no playoff wins is suddenly ok with rolling over cap space like we're the goddamned Cardinals?

I'm down for a rebuild, I've been down for a rebuild - but a rebuild means blowing it all up from the top down, and installing a new culture. So far, they've brought back 75% of the coaching staff, 100% of the front office staff save Belichick, 9 players from a 4-13 team, and roster filler. That's not blowing it up. That's running it back. 4-13 isn't good enough to run it back. Mac Jones is gone, that's a good start, but the rest is entirely concerning - and it's kind of ridiculous to plug one's ears and pretend that all of this is just not the product of a cheap owner, trying to recoup his costs from the new video board. Right now, that's what it looks like. I welcome being proven wrong.
I never mentioned anything about cap space. It ‘s nice if you can spend close to the limit to fill your roster.

There wasn’t a lot of talent available in FA. Signing core players and bringing in guys that add value to your team isn’t dumpster diving. You do realize that 95% of FA signings aren’t home runs; they’re what I just said.

Good teams build through the draft, try to keep good players that they already have on their team and add FAs to fill needs. We are in the process of doing that. Trent Brown was terrible LT in his second stint here, so yes, we need a LT. There are never good ones in FA and no team trades a good LT. We need to develop one already on the roster or draft one.

Then you start rambling on about cap space again…ok

Trades involve 2 teams and often times the consent of the player. It’s not like the Pats can just go around trading for stars left and right.

Listen…step away from the ledge. You sound like a spoiled, petulant child crying and demanding that everything becomes shiny and new in one off season. I think the new guys in charge are going about it the right way. There’ll be more signings and maybe some trades upcoming.

So just relax and maybe grab a paper bag and start inhaling and exhaling. The rebuild is in effect but it’s gonna take a little while. None of us are in charge of it, our opinions don’t matter, we just talk sh!t and pretend to run the team on a forum.
 
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As of right now the only thing you know for a fact are things that have already happened.

If you don't wanna talk about the draft then why are you hell bent on telling me I'm wrong. Worry about today.
We are talking about the draft. You think it's going to be a disaster. I'm saying wait and see.
 
A DIFFERENT PERSECTIVE
Sure, we hope to get a generational talent, or even one of the top 10 QB's in the league.

Might I suggest that this result is unlikely to happen.

We need an able starting QB. IMO, there could be 6 in this draft who could lead this team to a championship if the team is managed well including solid coaching and player acquisition. I leave the evaluation to Wolf. Maybe, one of the QB's is worth a #3 pick, perhaps not.

We need to understand the alternative of not picking a QB that can be coached up into our leader. It may cost 3 firsts to get to this position again. Alternatively, we could pay on of very few capable free agents $35M or more a year. Finally, we can simply give up on the early first and draft later, hoping that we will beat the very long odds and get an able QB late.
 
We are talking about the draft. You think it's going to be a disaster. I'm saying wait and see.

I don't think it's going to be a disaster at all and I think the Patriots need to take a QB.

My point went way over your head a long time ago.

We're still getting the third best prospect off the board.

No one said they were going to suck or not turn out better than the two taken before.
 
That's subjective. The guy the Bears want may not be the guy we want, for example.

You know what's not subjective? Having your first crack at literally any other position which was my point to begin with.

But noooooooo we can't consider it cause we need to take the third QB off the board.
 
If the Patriots trade back and grab JJ for example who's probably worse than Mac, you justify this how? Cause they got a future 1st and a third?

How do you justify it known that you're passing on Maye or Daniels and then whoever it is turned into a stud?

By your own admission there is only two top QBs in the draft.

Patriots get none of the two in either scenario if the top two teams see it how you see it.
Wolf will decide who they believe they can develop from the #4 to #6 QB.

If the team believed that these 4 were worse than Mac, Mac would still be on the team.
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I expect the team to draft a QB at 3, because I believe that they will decide that there is someone there that is worth developing. If there are 2 or 3, then then they might move down some.
 
Festy’s logic is unassailable. You never go for the 3rd rated QB, and should always wait for the last rated QB.

It's fine to take that third quarterback if you're picking in the twenties.

If you're taking the third quarterback with pick 3?

That's a whole lot of talent you're passing up on just for the right to pick the quarterback that the two teams above you didn't even want.
 
You know what's not subjective? Having your first crack at literally any other position which was my point to begin with.

But noooooooo we can't consider it cause we need to take the third QB off the board.
You're right. There's no talent to be had in the Top 5 of the draft.
 
That's subjective. The guy the Bears want may not be the guy we want, for example.

Some years there is one great QB prospect, some years there are more than that. That’s obvious to most out there. The fact that some QB’s have busted in previous years has absolutely nothing to do with this years draft. The only question that is relevant is the grades the Patriots have on the 3 QB’s at the top of this draft. If they have a franchise QB ceiling on all of them then take one, if not then go to your next option .
 


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