If Thuney is traded here’s the team

luuked said:

Philly doesn't have the money to pay Thuney the franchise tag.

As the Eagles beat guy said in his mailbag they couldn't even afford him if the Pats were giving him away for free. They are at -50M (based on non COVID affected cap projections) for next season and are trying to move over as much of the ~20M in cap space they have right now (which will get decreased even further through the season by 5-7M).

There is no way at all to fit Thuney in as a one year rental. Not on the franchise tag.



I don't get the obsession with Howard. At this point there is no reason to think he would be able to contribute more than Keane or Asiasi.

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TheRainMaker said:

Howard isn't going anywhere. Gronk wasn't brought in to make Howard expendable. Gronk doesn't have to be a full time pass catcher as he's not that guy anymore. Howard and Brate will keep Gronk fresh throughout the season, especially after taking a year off. He'll still be one of Brady's top red zone threats and pick up key 3rd downs. Having 3 capable TE's is a huge advantage for any team. And it would be foolish at this point to trade a guy on his rookie contract.

This reminds me of last year where the board wanted the Pats to trade Jonathon Jones so badly.

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How does this remind you of that? The board is pretty unanimous in that Thuney won't get the 18mill for four years from the pats. I don't see Ariens use the TE enough to have that much value on the bench. He is already in Ariens doghouse and has even been critized publicly by Ariens.

Keane and Asiasi should develop into a nice tandem, but I certainly do not expect it next year. We hit Gold with Gronk and Hernandez but these guys are not at that talent level coming in.

My point is that the eagles may give up the 90 th pick in the draft to rent Thuney for one year to make the playoffs. Wentz can't stay healthy and they need to protect him. now as far as the eagles in 2021, 30 mill of that is Jeffery and Malik Jackson, neither will be on the team.

patman52 said:

My point is that the eagles may give up the 90 th pick in the draft to rent Thuney for one year to make the playoffs. Wentz can't stay healthy and they need to protect him. now as far as the eagles in 2021, 30 mill of that is Jeffery and Malik Jackson, neither will be on the team.

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The. Eagles. dont. have. the. money.

You can repeat your point about them "needing protection" for Wentz all you want but they can't afford him. They will be at least 50 million ABOVE the cap next year. Potentially up to 70 million depending on how COVID-19 will affect the cap. Even if they cut Jeffrey and Malik to reduce those cap charges by half that doesn't change the math on a 15M one year deal for a RG.

They need to carry over as much as possible from this year's cap space.

I don't get why people brush aside the financial side of things so easily as if those are mere details when in reality they are the most important aspect of any transaction.

The most likely scenario is still the Pats signing Thuney to an extension before the deadline. Whether he is still here when the season starts or gets moved is a different story. And if they sign him to an extension structured in a way that the Eagles think they can afford then the math might change but there is no way Philly can make Thuney on a franchise tag work given their cap status.

patman52 said:

Keane and Asiasi should develop into a nice tandem, but I certainly do not expect it next year. We hit Gold with Gronk and Hernandez but these guys are not at that talent level coming in.

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Why would you assume that Howard -- who has been a disappointment relative to where he was picked -- would be able to contribute more than the rookies ? Both of them are already 2 months ahead of him in terms of studying and understanding the offense and their role. He'd start at zero.

I am not saying he wouldn't be better but it certainly wouldn't be my expectation for him given we are talking about someone who has averaged about 500 yd a year so far. If Caserio/BB had a favorable projection of him they'd had made the trade already (or made it part of the Gronk package) instead of investing draft day 2 resources into the very same position.

Now if he becomes available for a swap of day 3 picks or a 5th/6th the value/risk equation might change on that.

luuked said:

The. Eagles. dont. have. the. money.

You can repeat your point about them "needing protection" for Wentz all you want but they can't afford him. They will be at least 50 million ABOVE the cap next year. Potentially up to 70 million depending on how COVID-19 will affect the cap. Even if they cut Jeffrey and Malik to reduce those cap charges by half that doesn't change the math on a 15M one year deal for a RG.

They need to carry over as much as possible from this year's cap space.

I don't get why people brush aside the financial side of things so easily as if those are mere details when in reality they are the most important aspect of any transaction.

The most likely scenario is still the Pats signing Thuney to an extension before the deadline. Whether he is still here when the season starts or gets moved is a different story. And if they sign him to an extension structured in a way that the Eagles think they can afford then the math might change but there is no way Philly can make Thuney on a franchise tag work given their cap status.



Why would you assume that Howard -- who has been a disappointment relative to where he was picked -- would be able to contribute more than the rookies ? Both of them are already 2 months ahead of him in terms of studying and understanding the offense and their role. He'd start at zero.

I am not saying he wouldn't be better but it certainly wouldn't be my expectation for him given we are talking about someone who has averaged about 500 yd a year so far. If Caserio/BB had a favorable projection of him they'd had made the trade already (or made it part of the Gronk package) instead of investing draft day 2 resources into the very same position.

Now if he becomes available for a swap of day 3 picks or a 5th/6th the value/risk equation might change on that.

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Howard has played and studied in the NFL and will be much more ready to go in a convid affected year than the rookies, how you can even think otherwise is difficult for me to fathom. Asaisi caught around 60 catches in college. Likewise the same for Keene. Howard averages 16 yds per reception.

The thing with trading for Tuney is are they willing to go with a rookie at guard. They went 9-7 two straight years, one less game and they don't sniff the playoffs. I am not saying they should do it or will do it, just the reasons why it can't be dismissed out of hand. Given that Wentz has a 35 mill cap hit that year with 16 mil of bonus that 12 of which can be converted to signing over the last 3 years. so that now has them only 8 mill over the cap, which is totally doable. How bad do they want to keep winning the division and making the playoffs?

Like I said at this time in 2021 I don't even seeing them having a problem. 30 mill in cuts to Jeffery and then Jackson's phony year and the 20 mill from this year carry over, they have no significant cap issues in 2021. Now signing Thuney will cause an issue, but the "phony" 50mill cap defict is overstating the issue.

patman52 said:

Howard has played and studied in the NFL and will be much more ready to go in a convid affected year than the rookies, how you can even think otherwise is difficult for me to fathom. Asaisi caught around 60 catches in college. Likewise the same for Keene. Howard averages 16 yds per reception.

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Physically I definitely agree that he is more ready than any rookie can be. Mentally I have not seen evidence that he'd have a leg up on them in our offense. You might be right that his experience translates into being a quicker learner but that is exactly the kind of unknown that made nobody bite when the Bucs wanted to trade him.

patman52 said:

Now signing Thuney will cause an issue, but the "phony" 50mill cap defict is overstating the issue.

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My issue is with the suggestion that they might trade a day 2 pick and then use him as a one year rental. This entire combination of things just makes no sense. You don't give up an early pick for a one year rental on the franchise tag.

Now if they'd extend him to spread out the cap hits it is a different story but then again it is still a very steep price to pay to fill a RG position.

patman52 said:

How does this remind you of that?

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Because fans think if a team has more than one good player at any position, it means one of them should be traded. Last year, the Pats were extremely deep at CB, a position BB has always valued, yet trade a solid player on his rookie contract?

Fast forward to this year, Brady values quality TE’s, you have 3 now. Translation, get rid of one now?

patman52 said:

I don't see Ariens use the TE enough to have that much value on the bench. He is already in Ariens doghouse and has even been critized publicly by Ariens.

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Arians has already said he’s modifying the offense now that Brady is there. It would be foolish for Tom and Bruce to run an offense Tom is uncomfortable with. Having 3 capable TE’s is something I doubt Brady doesn’t like.

Why trade Howard on his rookie contract? What happens if you do and Gronk gets injured, because that’s a real possibility.

We’ll know soon enough as the deadline to sign an extension is 7/15. I just don’t see the Patriots meeting Thuney’s demands or Thuney lowering his demand to facilitate a deal.

The Patriots likely don’t value him as being worth $14.7 million as a LG. But, Thuney’s versatility to play C as a Plan B if Dave Andrews’ health issues should return makes him a little more valuable to the Patriots and is why they’ll keep him around on his franchise tag this season and probably watch him walk for a 2022 comp pick afterwards.

This has not been discussed that I’ve heard, but does the condition that caused Andrews’ lung clots make him a high risk if he should be infected with the Coronavirus? If there is a Patriot who might be advised to sit out the season because he’s high risk, it would be Andrews.

luuked said:

Physically I definitely agree that he is more ready than any rookie can be. Mentally I have not seen evidence that he'd have a leg up on them in our offense. You might be right that his experience translates into being a quicker learner but that is exactly the kind of unknown that made nobody bite when the Bucs wanted to trade him.



My issue is with the suggestion that they might trade a day 2 pick and then use him as a one year rental. This entire combination of things just makes no sense. You don't give up an early pick for a one year rental on the franchise tag.

Now if they'd extend him to spread out the cap hits it is a different story but then again it is still a very steep price to pay to fill a RG position.

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Like I said it is the 90th pick most likely for thuney, and there is very little doubt in my mind that the pats would have traded a 3/4th for OJ if they had the cap space to do so.

TheRainMaker said:

Because fans think if a team has more than one good player at any position, it means one of them should be traded. Last year, the Pats were extremely deep at CB, a position BB has always valued, yet trade a solid player on his rookie contract?

Fast forward to this year, Brady values quality TE’s, you have 3 now. Translation, get rid of one now?

Arians has already said he’s modifying the offense now that Brady is there. It would be foolish for Tom and Bruce to run an offense Tom is uncomfortable with. Having 3 capable TE’s is something I doubt Brady doesn’t like.

Why trade Howard on his rookie contract? What happens if you do and Gronk gets injured, because that’s a real possibility.

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If you have an abundance at one position and a shortage and another, you rectify the need. That is a valid process. Look if ariens was happy with Howard and Howard was happy there, I would not have posted.

patman52 said:

Like I said it is the 90th pick most likely for thuney, and there is very little doubt in my mind that the pats would have traded a 3/4th for OJ if they had the cap space to do so.

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To me it is obvious that the Pats are not interested in Howard unless he is available at incredible value like a 5th or 6th round pick. Guess we are reading the situation completely different especially because cap space is not an issue at all as they will an abundance next year and could restructure anyone at any point in time.

They rather had a fourth round pick than Howard in exchange for Gronk's rights.

luuked said:

...They rather had a fourth round pick than Howard in exchange for Gronk's rights.

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Has it been confirmed that Tampa indeed offered Howard for Gronk?

luuked said:

To me it is obvious that the Pats are not interested in Howard unless he is available at incredible value like a 5th or 6th round pick. Guess we are reading the situation completely different especially because cap space is not an issue at all as they will an abundance next year and could restructure anyone at any point in time.

They rather had a fourth round pick than Howard in exchange for Gronk's rights.

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They already re-worked deals this off season. We all recognize that BB is not one that likes to limit his future roster flexibility.

patman52 said:

They already re-worked deals this off season. We all recognize that BB is not one that likes to limit his future roster flexibility.

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I don't think there is anything dogmatic about how BB approaches any matter.

Cap space is there to be used to improve the team and if you need to take out a loan against crazy amount of space next year to sign someone where you are confident he improves the team then you do it. This is not a Saints situation where you keep pushing something down the road. Quite the opposite.

If they really wanted to have Howard they would have gotten him already. In contrast to Sanu they never really were after him though.

I really wanna keep Thuney long-term. Great player, incredible durability, solid work ethic. Deserves the pay day. As weird as it feels to spend so much money on two guards this year, it's worth it to keep him and keep negotiation talks ongoing and then get that long-term contract signed in the next offseason.

Ross12 said:

I really wanna keep Thuney long-term. Great player, incredible durability, solid work ethic. Deserves the pay day. As weird as it feels to spend so much money on two guards this year, it's worth it to keep him and keep negotiation talks ongoing and then get that long-term contract signed in the next offseason.

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We're stuck with Shack Mason's contract this year & likely 2021, but Bill should be holding the hammer during the restructuring thereafter...immediately thereafter I hope...

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/shaq-mason-16857/

BOSTON Sports Teams, Scores, Stats, News, Standings, Rumors - ESPN Boston

Reiss says there’s an 80% chance Thuney plays under the tag and a 5% chance he’s traded.

I’d not thought of the short-term extension option. But, just adding a voidable year could lower the 2020 cap hit by $7 million.