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six championships not the most for a QB


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The patriots were the patriots BEFORE there was a Super Bowl!

It is fine for folks to state that records are for the Super Bowl era. That's fine. However, there was and AFL before the Super Bowl. There was an NFL long before the Super Bowl. And there were professional leagues before that.

And so it is with professional basketball and hockey.

The super bowl was created to define which championship team was better than the other from a rival league.

The superbowl it sold pre dates the merger and thus the titles are are to be left behind.

While its impressive to win those championships, those are no different than the AFL championships and aren't to be assumed to matter more just because the nfl took its name from them rather than the AFL.
 
Football was not not real then. But the league(s) were completely different and comparing them make no sense, especially on a day of celebration like today.

Quoting at the top like you do isn't easy though, I'll give you that.

Why do believe that the NFL before the merger with the AFL is irrelevant and not "real" football?

There are lots of folks here who were patriot fans before there was a Super Bowl, and Giant or Browns fans before that. There was an NFL since the 20's and professional leagues even before that.

History of the National Football League - Wikipedia

The Giants, that is, the New York football Giants were founded in 1925.

History of the New York Giants - Wikipedia
 
Why do believe that the NFL before the merger with the AFL is irrelevant and not "real" football?

There are lots of folks here who were patriot fans before there was a Super Bowl, and Giant or Browns fans before that. There was an NFL since the 20's and professional leagues even before that.

History of the National Football League - Wikipedia

The Giants, that is, the New York football Giants were founded in 1925.

History of the New York Giants - Wikipedia

I didnt say it wasnt real football in the sense that it mattered more or less or was more or less competitive or anything

Rather then that pre superbowl the championships were handed out differently and when the rules changed so did the championship.

Brady had 9 afc championships. Those aren't superbowls but if you wanna compare apples and oranges us the equivalent of what the NFL championship would be had there been no merger. Brady cant win NFL championships and that's not his fault.
 
You started a terrible thread. I mean, what would encourage you to do so unless you're not a Pats fan, which I know you are? Just deal with it and learn from it.

QFT
AAFC ≠ NFL just as AFL ≠ NFL
 
We need to put this on a billboard near Gillette ... piss Brady off to help him out.

Perhaps a dual billboard? One side with a Brady pic saying 'He's no Otto' the other with a pic of Sony captioned 'And he's no Lamar Jackson'
 
The NFL before Namath was truly professional football.

Would you exclude Red Aurbach's basketball championships in the 40's?

How about pro hockey? Should we ignore all championships before 1960?


I suppose that it reasonable to ignore all NFL football before Namath. Personally, I think this to be an unreasonable view.

Professional sports did not start in the 60's or 70's or later.

Yes I would exclude all of that

“Pro” sports back then was a like a rec league as far as I’m concerned.
 
Funny thing was for years nobody thought Russell going to 10 championship games and winning 7 would ever be topped. Brady is one Super Bowl away from something that a guy did it over two different leagues with 8 teams did
 
Why do believe that the NFL before the merger with the AFL is irrelevant and not "real" football?

There are lots of folks here who were patriot fans before there was a Super Bowl, and Giant or Browns fans before that. There was an NFL since the 20's and professional leagues even before that.

History of the National Football League - Wikipedia

The Giants, that is, the New York football Giants were founded in 1925.

History of the New York Giants - Wikipedia
Like with Major League Baseball, there are different level of demarcations. The separate league setup has allowed the pennant idea to continue to be viable - National League pennants (and American Association pennants) won prior to 1903 are very legitimate and included by everyone in their record books. But no one considers them the world champions for the most part because the modern construct didn’t exist.

The NFL is different in that it actually absorbed the AFL instead of running with a dual league setup with a MLF overarching brand. It also didn’t have a National Association predecessor league like the NL did; instead the NFL just reorganized. MLB doesn’t recognize National Association records and championships for good reason.

But when you dig into the NFL’s actual record, I think clear lines of demarcation can be drawn:

- NFL championships prior to 1933 are a complete joke, the equivalent to baseball’s National Association, and should be disregarded.

- The quality of the NFL through 1945 was dubious; it was better than competitor leagues , but there was a game against college all stars every year for a reason - it was the NFL who begged for it. This was like the NL during 1876-1881.

- The NFL became a quality product post WW2 as people played in the war, saw instant strategic similarities, and the idea of being a professional football player became legitimized. The AAFC was a legit competitor for audience even if its talent was lower outside of the Browns. This is like the AA/NL years of 1882-1891.

- From 1950 on this accelerated further as the NFL absorbed 3 AAFL teams, and after the Colts folded, were able to bring a new Colts team back by popular outcry. Football is the perfect TV sport and its arrival combined with WW2 changed everything. The NFL was very legit here, but they intentionally kept the size of the league small, only 12 teams. This left a big opening. This is like the NL of the 1890s after the AA folded.

- Enter the AFL of the 1960s. The NFL was legit while the AFL got its bearings. Until the merger agreement, this is 1900-1902 Western League/ American League.

- Post merger agreement had the first championship, common draft, and expanded league. This is the NFL we know today, from 1966 on, like MLB 1903 on.

Where does that leave us? From my perspective pre-1933 records are worthless, and from there 1933 through 1965 NFL champions are basically like MLB pennant winners pre-World Series. I view them as NFC champions who had no AFC to face. Same thing with AFL from 1960 through 1965.

We don’t ignore the old times, but we recognize that the pro football era we all fell in love with and associate our champions with falls in a fully expanded professional league that is able to recruit the highest talent to play in its league rather than playing another sport. That’s the Super Bowl era.
 
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Funny thing was for years nobody thought Russell going to 10 championship games and winning 7 would ever be topped. Brady is one Super Bowl away from something that a guy did it over two different leagues with 8 teams did

Uh...Russell won 11 championships in 13 seasons.
 
What even is the point of this thread on the day after a Super Bowl?

Like why are you trying to die on this stupid hill?
Yes, I do not understand it all. If he were a troll I'd be able to get my head around it much more easily... but he's a real fan, right? It's so confusing and remember, I am moderately intelligent per most tests.
 
Yes, four with the Browns in the AAFC (eight teams), so this is like winning the Divisional Playoff game.

Three after the AAFC folded and the Browns joined the NFL (twelve teams), so not even as competitive as winning a Conference Championship.
AAFC had 8 teams? That's easier than winning the Grey Cup in the CFL (a league where every team has like 15 championships).
 
AAFC had 8 teams? That's easier than winning the Grey Cup in the CFL (a league where every team has like 15 championships).

Doesn't matter, OP would gleefully trade Brady for the real winner that is Otto Graham.
 
I forget that so many here starting following pro football after 2001.

so, yes Graham only won 3 NFL championships.
Why would you say this?
You think counting championships from a minor league makes you a better fan?
 
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