The Devil In Stevan Ridley's Details

[ausbacker]

LOL, you're a trip. You just quoted a post where you said Ridley wasn't more talented than BJGE in massive font.

You remind me of a guy a grew up with whose father taught him to never admit he was wrong under any circumstance. The dude was totally messed up. Refused to admit guilt even in the face of incontrovertible evidence. It was crazy to witness.

No, you provided a quote where I rejected the notion that Ridley was more talented than Green-Ellis at that point in time. A smart person would have realised that you could infer a comparable level of talent, something which has gleefully gone over your simplistic interpretation. That's hardly surprising given your Green-Ellis versus Ridley drum beating.

 

[JJDChE]

No, you provided a quote where I rejected the notion that Ridley was more talented than Green-Ellis at that point in time. A smart person would have realised that you could infer a comparable level of talent, something which has gleefully gone over your simplistic interpretation. That's hardly surprising given your Green-Ellis versus Ridley drum beating.

Riiight, THAT was what you were implying with your response in 7 point font. Mmmmkay.

 

[ausbacker]

Riiight, THAT was what you were implying with your response in 7 point font. Mmmmkay.

You still haven't provided a quote where I categorically state BenJarvus Green-Ellis is more talented than Stevan Ridley. Continue this run of embarrassing commentary. It does nothing but strengthen my position regarding both.

 

[Off The Grid]

This is one of the most ridiculous posts I've ever seen. Sanders averaged 100 yards rushing per game in his career on 5.0 yards per carry. That's moving the chains.

That's the most vapid post I've ever read, so if my post struck you as ridiculous, I'll take that as a compliment.

If you can't grasp the fundamental inference of the difference between a guy who consistently and reliably Moves The Chains and a guy who racks up HighLight Reel Footage, but is constantly putting the other team's Offense back on the field because of negative plays...then I'll leave you to return to your Madden version of FootBall.

I shouldn't have to explain to anyone that the context of my statement was a philosophical response to the post I'd replied to: Nobody in his right mind would choose Ridley over Sanders if they were building a roster.

Gosh.

No kidding.

How many years did you geniuses piss on the toilet seat before someone told you to lift the cover first??

But that doesn't mean that Sanders was the kind of O Back who Moves The Chains and wins Championships.

If y'all want to go on believing that HighLight Reels win Championships...be my guests.

 

[reflexblue]

That's the most vapid post I've ever read, so if my post struck you as ridiculous, I'll take that as a compliment.

If you can't grasp the fundamental inference of the difference between a guy who consistently and reliably Moves The Chains and a guy who racks up HighLight Reel Footage, but is constantly putting the other team's Offense back on the field because of negative plays...then I'll leave you to return to your Madden version of FootBall.

I shouldn't have to explain to anyone that the context of my statement was a philosophical response to the post I'd replied to: Nobody in his right mind would choose Ridley over Sanders if they were building a roster.

Gosh.

No kidding.

How many years did you geniuses piss on the toilet seat before someone told you to lift the cover first??

But that doesn't mean that Sanders was the kind of O Back who Moves The Chains and wins Championships.

If y'all want to go on believing that HighLight Reels win Championships...be my guests.

I never liked sanders running style. He was like a pin ball that bounced around, what ever his total yards are he has just as many going east and west and whatever backwards is... south? I will say this he sure tired the opposing defenses out chasing him around.

 

[Metaphors]

I'll admit I'm confused about this entire thread. Is the premise that there is a singular "ideal" running style that is optimal for the NFL in general or the Pats in particular?

BJGE was a between the tackles, quick to the LOS, rub off the OL blocks and squeeze through cracks, protect the ball type of RB. So the Pats called plays that got the most out of this style. No negative yards, dependable ball handler but limited ability to score from distance...meaning Brady had to get the team to the goal line.

Ridley is a read and react, plant and go, bounce outside, punish mistakes type of RB. So the Pats call plays that get the most out of this style. Occasional negative plays balanced by sizable chucks of real estate gained when the defense is focused on the other weapons.

BJGE was dependable but he generally isn't going to be the difference on offense. He complemented a Brady-heavy attack. Remember, he had more than 20 carries only once last year and didn't average more than 5 ypc in any game. Ridley is 1-for-1 on both of these counts. Doesn't mean he will do that every week, but he has that type of potential in this offense.

The main issue that I had with BJGE is that he allowed the defense to collapse to the short-intermediate middle of the field without consequence. Makes for a lot of traffic (and blitz potential) for a TE/slot based passing team. If Ridley (and Vereen eventually) can attack the edges, teams will have to account for that. More room for Gronk/AHern/Welker and easier pre-snap looks for Brady.

I think BJGE is a phenomenal fit in Cincy. They have outside threats already and BJGE helps keep the offense on schedule for an offense with a young QB. Just last week the Bengals were down only 4 in Baltimore midway through the 3rd quarter...and it wasn't like the Cincy defense showed up large.

I think Ridley will turn out to be a better fit for what this Pats team wants to do this year. Without that context (team, gameplan, etc.), comparing BJGE and Ridley doesn't seem to make much sense.

 

[JJDChE]

You still haven't provided a quote where I categorically state BenJarvus Green-Ellis is more talented than Stevan Ridley. Continue this run of embarrassing commentary. It does nothing but strengthen my position regarding both.

You've got backpedaling down like a Pro Bowl conrnerback.

 

[ausbacker]

You've got backpedaling down like a Pro Bowl conrnerback.

You still have not provided it. Provide the quote specific quote or retract your statement.

 

[ivanvamp]

I never liked sanders running style. He was like a pin ball that bounced around, what ever his total yards are he has just as many going east and west and whatever backwards is... south? I will say this he sure tired the opposing defenses out chasing him around.

How many of the all-time great running backs have won a championship? Here's the list of all-time rushers:

E. Smith - 3 titles
W. Payton - 1 title
B. Sanders - 0 titles
C. Martin - 0 titles
L. Tomlinson - 0 titles
J. Bettis - 1 title
E. ****erson - 0 titles
T. Dorsett - 1 title
J. Brown - 1 title
M. Faulk - 1 title

So of the top 7 rushers in NFL history, four of them never won a title. Martin is the epitme of "move the chains" kind of running back (averaged 4.0 ypc for his career). Of this group in the top 10, they won a combined 8 titles (3 by one guy on those great Dallas teams in the 90's) in a combined 115 NFL seasons. The point is that very few teams build around a great running back, no matter his running style, win championships.

 

[JJDChE]

How many of the all-time great running backs have won a championship? Here's the list of all-time rushers:

E. Smith - 3 titles
W. Payton - 1 title
B. Sanders - 0 titles
C. Martin - 0 titles
L. Tomlinson - 0 titles
J. Bettis - 1 title
E. ****erson - 0 titles
T. Dorsett - 1 title
J. Brown - 1 title
M. Faulk - 1 title

So of the top 7 rushers in NFL history, four of them never won a title. Martin is the epitme of "move the chains" kind of running back (averaged 4.0 ypc for his career). Of this group in the top 10, they won a combined 8 titles (3 by one guy on those great Dallas teams in the 90's) in a combined 115 NFL seasons. The point is that very few teams build around a great running back, no matter his running style, win championships.

If you do the same analysis with the top 10 in passing yards of all time you only come out with 5 championships.


1. Brett Favre 1
2. Dan Marino+ 0
3. Peyton Manning 1
4. John Elway+ 2
5. Warren Moon+ 0
6. Fran Tarkenton+ 0
7. Vinny Testaverde 0
8. Drew Bledsoe 0
9. Dan Fouts+ 0
10. Drew Brees 1

 

[JJDChE]

You still have not provided it. Provide the quote specific quote or retract your statement.

You've already made your stance. You think they are equally talented. I disagree. Ridley is more talented.

 

[ivanvamp]

If you do the same analysis with the top 10 in passing yards of all time you only come out with 5 championships.

I'm glad we're defying the odds then!! (Plus, Brady will be in the top 10 at some point this year, and that'll bump the number up to 8. And Montana (4 titles) currently sits behind Kerry Collins (!!!!!!!) at #12, with Unitas right behind him. So it doesn't take too much to extend the argument just a little and the numbers look quite a bit different.)

My point was simply that the RBs style of play doesn't determine whether they're a winner or not. If the Patriots had Barry Sanders this year (well, not the *current* version of Barry Sanders, but rather the Barry Sanders of the mid-90's) their offense would truly be unstoppable.

 

[1960Pats]

Any way you look at it, there was a lot to be excited about in Ridley's performance yesterday. He showed power, burst, vision, and was much improved in pass protection.

But let's all remember the sage wisdom of Bill Parcell, and not break out the anointing oils just yet.

In yesterday's game, when he wasn't breaking off runs for 14-17 yard gains, he mixed in 4 runs for negative yardage. For perspective, BJGE had a total of 9 negative plays in all of last season, despite playing through turf toe for much of it. All told, 9 -- nearly half -- of his carries went for 2 yards or less, and that's not counting his goal-line TD.

With all but one of his 1-2 yard gainers coming with 9+ yards to go, 8 of his carries would be said to have knocked the offense "off schedule," i.e. significantly reduced the chance of a 1st down.

Stevan Ridley had some very impressive runs yesterday, and he's certainly demonstrated a heady amount of potential, but he still has room for improvement when it comes to avoiding negative plays.

I think Ridley has clearly shown so far that he belongs. I don't know what could possibly change that. He'll probably get better.

As for the sage wisdom of Tuna Crap, he was a great coach, but his biggest asset was being able to pick and choose the perfect situation in which to leave one team for another.

 

[JJDChE]

I'm glad we're defying the odds then!! (Plus, Brady will be in the top 10 at some point this year, and that'll bump the number up to 8. And Montana (4 titles) currently sits behind Kerry Collins (!!!!!!!) at #12, with Unitas right behind him. So it doesn't take too much to extend the argument just a little and the numbers look quite a bit different.)

My point was simply that the RBs style of play doesn't determine whether they're a winner or not. If the Patriots had Barry Sanders this year (well, not the *current* version of Barry Sanders, but rather the Barry Sanders of the mid-90's) their offense would truly be unstoppable.

If you extend it out to 20, RBs have 16 championships, QBs have 15.

Very interesting. I thought QBs would dominate. Not the case.

 

[ausbacker]

You've already made your stance. You think they are equally talented. I disagree. Ridley is more talented.

I'm going to tell you once more and for the final time, provide the specific quote or retract your statement.

 

[ivanvamp]

If you extend it out to 20, RBs have 16 championships, QBs have 15.

Very interesting. I thought QBs would dominate. Not the case.

Yep, color me very surprised as well. I appreciate the input.

YouTube - Nothing to see here

 

[1960Pats]

If you do the same analysis with the top 10 in passing yards of all time you only come out with 5 championships.


1. Brett Favre 1
2. Dan Marino+ 0
3. Peyton Manning 1
4. John Elway+ 2
5. Warren Moon+ 0
6. Fran Tarkenton+ 0
7. Vinny Testaverde 0
8. Drew Bledsoe 0
9. Dan Fouts+ 0
10. Drew Brees 1

Any list of top ten QBs that has Drew Bledsoe on it but not Tom Brady is obviously flawed.

Same goes for a list of top ten RBs that doesn't have Jim Brown at the top.

But then, that's the point I think.

 

[1960Pats]

If you extend it out to 20, RBs have 16 championships, QBs have 15.

Very interesting. I thought QBs would dominate. Not the case.

Limit the comparison to the last ten years or so and I bet the QBs are much more valuable than a RB to winning, now that the passing rules have been Polianed. I still think that it's beneficial to our team if they run the ball though, or at least attempt to run the ball.

 

[UK_Pat37]

Going back on the coaching tape, you can see a three or four occasions when the hole was there and he didn't hit it. That's three or four too many IMO.

It was a very good performance, but not perfect. You can bet BB is ripping him a new one fore those mistakes and not bothering to care about those 125 yards.

So it's worth discussing.

 

[JJDChE]

I'm going to tell you once more and for the final time, provide the specific quote or retract your statement.

I posted it in this thread already.