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Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by rookBoston, Mar 12, 2006.

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  1. rookBoston

    rookBoston Rookie

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    Give me your first-round short list.

    Guidelines:

    (1) You can only have three players on the list, in order of preference.
    (2) You have to have a realistic prospect of landing them in the first round. Indicate whether you're willing to trade up for the player, and how high you're willing to go.
    (3) Remember, assume you'll only get one of the three players.
  2. drpatriot

    drpatriot Rookie

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    #1 Lendale White
    At this point, White would have the best overall value for the pick if he fell to us. White proved himself at USC and performed well at the Rose Bowl. He would have the benefit of not being pressed into a starting role immediately, instead being able to learn from Dillon for his first year. With the recent signings of Chester Taylor by the Vikings and Edge by Arizona, the only team that is likely draft White is Baltimore, who still can re-sign Jamal Lewis or draft DeAngelo Williams. I would not trade up for White, however, because other needs could be addressed with this pick.

    #2 Manny Lawson
    Lawson was ranked as a first-round prospect even before the combine, where he wowed everyone with a 4.43 40-yard dash. Lawson would either train behind McGinest, if we resign him, or start in his place if we don't. Lawson has great size for the elephant position (6'5", 240) and appears to have the physical skills to fit the position. However, I would not trade up for Lawson because players at the same position could be availabe at #21 (i.e. Chad Greenway) or later in the draft (i.e. Stanley McClover)

    #3 Sinorice Moss, Miami
    Moss is very similar to his brother Santana: he is fast, agile, small and has huge upside. We have a major void at WR right now (Branch, Bethel, Childress) and need someone who can immediately step in at no less than a #3 role. I am confident that Moss could do exactly that. However, we would trade down to make this pick, possibly with Indy, who might want a chance at DeAngelo Williams (if he falls) or Lawrence Maroney; perhaps we would get their 3rd or 4th rounder in the trade. If someone picks Moss during this time by a bad stroke of luck, we can take Chad Jackson (Florida). One of the two players will likely be there.
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2006
  3. Feep_FLA

    Feep_FLA Rookie

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    My 1st round short list:

    Bobby Carpenter: Perfect fit for the patriots. Smart, tough plays inside and outside linebacker, good clean-cut solid citizen. Trade up to 18 if neccesary.

    Richard Marshall: Solid DB, good tackler, special teams demon, Patriots love Fresno State/ Pat Hill players.... Trade up to 25-28 range.

    Lendale White: if he falls to 21 they grab him. Corey Dillon is approaching the RB wall. 1 year left to be a force in the NFL 2 tops. Lendale White is solid, powerful runner. Will need a season to learn to pick up blitz' and hone recieving skills.
    :rocker: :
  4. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    1a. Chad Greenway, LB, Iowa. I think he has a chance of falling to #21 as his measurables have been a little disappointing. Greenway is a smart, instinctive, experienced LB who played for Kirk Ferentz in Iowa. After Hawk, probably the surest thing in a deep LB class.

    1b. Manny Lawson, DE/OLB, NC State. Like DeMarcus Ware last year, Lawson looks tailor-made for the 3-4 OLB position. 6'6" 240, with speed and quickness just a smidgen behind Deion Branch. Lawson has some learning to do, but unlike many tweeners he has played some LB.

    I can't imagine that both of these players will be available at #21, but I think it's at least 50-50 that one of them will be. What's more, I see a pretty significant dropoff after these two players. There should be some good RBs available, but the RB class is deep and there's no urgency there. Ditto for tight ends and offensive tackles and safeties. I don't like any WR in the 1st. I'd be content with CB Richard Marshall or LB Bobby Carpenter. But on balance, I'd look to trade a up couple of slots for Lawson or Greenway, or trade down and maneuver to walk away with 2 of these players by the end of the 2nd: Marshall, Carpenter, Kam Wimbley, Daryn Colledge, Joseph Addai.
  5. mavfan2390

    mavfan2390 Rookie

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    1a. Antonio Cromartie, CB, Florida State. Extremely raw a la Ellis Hobbs, but has ALL the physical tool to turn into a Champ Bailey, Chris McCalister, Deion Sanders :D, etc., once in a lifetime player.

    1b. Manny Lawson, DE/OLB, NC State. Physical Specimen, doubtful he'll be there at 21, but he was built for the 3-4.

    1c. Laurence Maroney, RB, Minnesota. Lendale White is fat, DeAngelo Williams is oft-injured, and has a lot of thread on his tires. Maroney is built is the mold of Clinton Portis, and was in my eyes, the most patient runner in NCAA last season. He's 5'11 and 217, for comparison purposes Portis is 5'11 212.
  6. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    At least Ellis started at CB in college. Cromartie didn't. At least that I can find.

    I agree with Lawson, but not Maroney. BTW, I don't believe that Portis clocked in at 4.55. I believe that Portis was in the 4.4 range. Not that it means much. However, the knock on Maroney is his route running, his ability to run between the tackles, and his blocking ability. Sounds like a one dimensional back to me. Not really what the Pats look for in a #1 RB.
  7. bosfan

    bosfan Rookie

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    Believe we go LB with #21 and my order of preference is:
    Lawson - do not think he will be available.
    Greenway - if he falls out of favor.
    Carpenter - should be there and it all depends on Vrables recommendation.
    Don't believe we will trade up for anyone but good possibility we trade down.
  8. shirtsleeve

    shirtsleeve Rookie

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    1). Trade down to the top of the second, with a 4th tossed in.
    2). Trade down to the higher part of the second with a 4th tossed in.
    3). Trade down to the middle of the second with a 3rd tossed in.

    Does anyone else here think that there is only about 1/2 of a first round of talent in this draft, and the bottom half is comprised of what could be determined to be of equal value to the second rounders, but with first round contracts?
  9. flutie2phelan

    flutie2phelan Rookie

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    I'm eager to see how the cognoscenti reply!
  10. patsfan55

    patsfan55 Rookie

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    i agree with the fact that the talent pool at the bottom half of first rd is about same as top of second rd

    but ur wrong with the trade
    check out a draft value chart and u'll see if we trade into early second round that we will get an early third back as well

    what ive been proposing is trade 21 for an early second and early third
    then trade one of the early 3's and our late 3 for another early 2nd

    so we would have two early 2's and a mid-late 2 and an early 3 left

    bb has always said his fav round is the second
    and we could end up with three of the following: ot marcus mcneil, wr martin nance, rb joseph addai, cb richard marshall, lb kam wimbley, etc
  11. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Darryl Tapp, Eric Winston, Montavius Stanley
  12. bosfan

    bosfan Rookie

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    Thats a good trade, if you can't make that one here is a back-up plan:
    We trade our #1 (800) for the Texans two 3rd's (265 & 260)
    and switch positions in the second round Texans (580) - Pats (380)
    Math is 800 for 725.
    We get a nice selection at #33 and just mine the gold that falls through the cracks with four picks in the 3rd. On day two with two 4ths we just sweep things up...............
    __________
  13. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Bobby Carpenter, Chad Greenway, and nervously Len-Dale White if he falls to #21.

    As far as trades are concerned, I won't get into that. It takes more than one team willing to trade. Trades are ususally done just before a pick, then you know what player the other team really want or what player you really want is still on the board.
  14. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    No-one who I expect to be there is knocking me on my butt right now.

    I would say Santonio Holmes but it sounds like his personality has some Terri Glenn in it. Or Chad Jackson but some Gator fan said he doesn't fit the Patriots' profile.

    Gut feeling is Belichick might like a little more speed at RB than Dillon / White but I just don't see a first round RB.

    I figure Lawson will be gone. Greenway could be there and Bobby Carpenter will be. Marshall I like. Eric Winston but OL is deep.

    Honestly, I'm clueless right now.

    But if I have to list three I'll say :

    Winston
    Marshall
    Maroney
  15. PatDaPatriot

    PatDaPatriot Rookie

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    If they decide to trade up...

    1) Manny Lawson: His workout, production, and character has him headed towards a high selection. Two months ago he would've been available at #21. Unfortunately for the Patriots, teams picking before #21 have "discovered" him. He would be the perfect heir to Willie McGinest...

    2) Vernon "Duke" Davis: I've been watching him for 3 years. Best receiver in the draft...by far. He transcends the TE position. He's good enough to probably make it at WR...

    If they stay at #21:

    1) Sinorice Moss: I don't care about his measurables. The team is in need of some quality receivers. Moss is a good one. He's a true home run threat with good hands...

    2) Bobby Carpenter: Versitile, athletic, and productive. Would look good teaming with Vrabel and Bruschi...

    3) Marcus McNeill: Depending on what happens with the rest of FA, OL could be as big of a need as any for the Patriots. McNeill would be a steal at #21...

    If they trade down to late first/early second round...

    1) D'Qwell Jackson: This guy is a BB/Pioli type of player all the way. Productive, smart, athletic, natural leader. Earned the nickname Qwella-Monster for a reason...

    2) Max Jean-Gilles: Would team with Mankins and Koppen to form one hell of an interior line. Good value pick...

    3) Antonio Cromartie: The knee is a major concern. Gamble on greatness...
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2006
  16. mcbee

    mcbee Banned

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    1. Richard Marshall or Jason Allen, may be able to trade down in 1st for them.

    2. Kam. Wimbley, Mark Anderson of Alabama, or Chris GoCong of Cal Poly for LBs

    3. RBs D'Arrius Howard, Arkansas, PJ Pope Bowling Green, Jerious Norwood MState. Jerious Norwood is a little on small side.

    4. WR Two or three of Jennings W. Michigan, Brandon Marshall C. Florida, Mike Haas Oregon State, Martin Nance

    5. OL Setterstrom Minnesota, or other

    6. S Bernard Pollard or Keith Ellison (OLB) or Jon Alston or James Anderson (VT)
  17. shirtsleeve

    shirtsleeve Rookie

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    Ok, no trades to think about, here goes.
    By needs/value:
    Lawson
    Greenway
    Marshall

    Now for the Mankins shocker. Jon Alston in the first. Guy will be just as good as Huff, but played OLB in college. Put him next to Rodney, Move Gino to corner and your secondary is set.
  18. The Gr8est

    The Gr8est Rookie

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    Those would be my three as well, unless someone falls unexpectedly to us like Wilfork did, ( and I still wouldn't take a RB not named Bush)
  19. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

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    #12 Jersey

    I am 100% for trading down in the first round, and maybe even multiple times and as far down into the second round, if need be, to around the 40s.

    However if I can not trade down I would look to CB. Hill, Joseph or Marshall.

    I realize that thus far since the end of the season we have lost Chatham, Willie and now C Brown from the LB corp. And given the age of those left, we really need to replenish this position, but there are enough 'tweeners with height in this draft to secure a future OLB a little later in the draft.
    At ILB the idea of Vrabel moving back to the outside scares me half to death because that means Beisel starts.
  20. Irish Hooligan

    Irish Hooligan Rookie

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    Short List

    I would trade up a few spots for:
    Huff or Jimmy Williams

    Staying at #21

    1. Manny Lawson (has to slip past Clev)
    2. Tye Hill
    3. Chad Greenway

    I think free agency has given us a better chance at players slipping.
  21. Mainefan

    Mainefan Rookie

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    I think free agency has worsened our chances of having a good player slip. People at the top are not going to be looking for QBs or RBs, so they may be taking those LBs and CBs we'd like.
  22. Irish Hooligan

    Irish Hooligan Rookie

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    Mainefan

    That is a good point, I hope that is not the case but I had not thought of it from that angel. :(
  23. ayjackson

    ayjackson Rookie

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    1. Greenway
    2. Lawson
    3. trade down, jason allen
  24. DarMan

    DarMan Rookie

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    My top three:

    1. Bobby Carpenter
    2. Manny Lawson
    3. Lendale White

    The pick will be Carpenter
  25. jczxohn1

    jczxohn1 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    On the other hand, some teams at the top are going to be out of cap space for big signing bonuses, and may want to trade down to the middle of the 1st round.:D
  26. rookBoston

    rookBoston Rookie

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    For me, the value is at LB: Lawson, Greenway, Carpenter

    I've cooled off on Lendale, and I think #21 would be too early for Marshall. There will be great CB and OL options at the top of the 2nd.
  27. Major **********

    Major ********** Rookie

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    I proposed drafting Alston in another thread last week. As much as I like Jon, I think anywhere before round 3 is a bit early for him, but you never know with BB. Also I don't see him as a FS. I don't think he has the coverage skills necesary to play there. But he would be perfect as a SS. Generally SS are adequate in coverage but fierce in hitting and stoping the run. Jon is both the latter. Can he be the former?
    IMO he could be an Archuletta clone at the very least. If he can improve his coverage to Milloy level (aka. mediocre) he could be a real find. The next step up it would be to have his coverage skills to Rodney Harrison level (aka. not great but slightly above average and a nose for the ball and big playmaking ability based largely on smarts and good knowledge of the system) then you have yourself a GEM.
  28. shirtsleeve

    shirtsleeve Rookie

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    Funny, I read a couple of ratings on the kid and both said he excelled at coverage...I know thats for LB, but still,at 4.40 or 4.44, you gotta think that the coverage skill is transferrable in this case. With the proper teaching (think:Rodney), my guess is that it would be absolutely terrifying this season to go up for a ball across the middle!
  29. Major **********

    Major ********** Rookie

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    Yes I did read the same thing (PFW, and SportingNews, haven't checked the ESPN one yet) and that is exactly my concern. They judge his coverage ability from the LB position where he only has to cover RBs and TE and only for so long. The quetion is how will he do against WR. How are his hips. Can he rotate them? Butl like I said at worst he could be an Archuletta type and be kinda bad in coverage but it will be overlooked because of his hitting, run support and blitzing abilities. If he is as smart as the publications say then he could make up for any physical shortcomings in coverage by understanding the system and the position very well.
  30. PonyExpress

    PonyExpress Rookie

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    My short list

    1. Manny Lawson
    2. Mathias Kiwanuka
    3. Tamba Hali
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