Worried about LB'S??

[fgssand]

The what if scenario is really scary:

Right now - the top four are solid: TBC & Rosie OL and Vrable & Tedy IL with back ups Alexandar, Woods, Mays, Davis & Izzo.

One more injury of any kind to any of the starters results in a huge drop off.

Is anybody out there to pick up? Phifer, Sharper, Boulware??

Not good.

SORRY - did not see similar post below - please merge

 

[italian pat patriot]

if i have to be honest i'm a little bit worried

the nice victory against CHI was partially ruined by the fact that we lost for the season Junior Seau that imho performed much more then expected.

now we are really thin and after Vrabel, TBC, Tedy and Colvin we have only question marks

let's see what SP and BB will do or are allready doing...

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

The what if scenario is really scary:

Right now - the top four are solid: TBC & Rosie OL and Vrable & Tedy IL with back ups Alexandar, Woods, Mays, Davis & Izzo.

That's not solid. That's cause for concern. Moreover, it makes me want to see this team use a 4-3 base defense.

Outside of some flashes, TBC has done nothing to prove himself. Vrabel and Bruschi don't make many plays these days and are in the back 9 (more like the final 3 holes) of their careers. In fact, I think Seau was outplaying both of them this year. Colvin is the only truly good LB on this team right now. The rest are unproven and/or mediocre.

As for the backups, they are all special teamers.

As I posted earlier in another thread, the Pats will miss Seau more than Harrison in 2006.

 

[PonyExpress]

Examining some worst case scenarios:

1) If Vrabel gets injured, Bruschi switches to strong side ILB and Eric Alexander/Don Davis starts on the weak side.

2) If Bruschi gets injured, Alexander/Davis replaces him

3) If Colvin gets injured, Vrabel moves back to elephant OLB, Bruschi moves to SSide ILB, Alexander/Davis moves to weak side ILB. Pierre Woods becomes the 3rd OLB.

4) if Banta Cain gets injured, Vrabel moves back to elephant, Colvin to weak side OLB, Alexander/Davis to ILB.

5) If Bruschi and Vrabel get injured, the starting LB corps would be: Banta Cain, Colvin, Alexander/Davis, Mays, Davis.

Conclusion: The Defense could be two LBer injuries away from becoming a sieve. With 5 games remaining before the playoffs, and 3+ potential playoff games, that possibility is not far-fetched. Maybe newcomers could surprise and pick up the slack; most likely not. Therefore, the Patriots' offense and passing game must develop quickly over the last 5 weeks to compensate for the potential decline on the other side of the ball. Recommendations:
(1) more carries for Maroney. Dillon is becoming unreliable and losing steam down the stretch.
(2) more receiving opportunities for Maroney. He is a dangerous weapon in the open field.
(3) more passes to Chad Jackson. There's still time for major improvement in his game this season: 8 possible games, a full half season for the rookie. Note: Jacksom missed practicing with Brady from July 27 to Sept 18, 53 days. He has now been practicing since Sept 18, 71 days. If he had been practicing healthy since the beginning of training camp, 71 days would take him to the 1st week of October, just ending the 1st uarter of his rookie regular season. So the impatience some fans have with him is unjustified, and I feel he will improve dramatically over these last few weeks.
(4) More opportunities in the passing game for Dave Thomas, to help take some of the offensive burden off Watson. Thomas has more reliable hand than Watson as an underneath 3rd down outlet option.

 

[JoeSixPat]

That's not solid. That's cause for concern. Moreover, it makes me want to see this team use a 4-3 base defense.

Outside of some flashes, TBC has done nothing to prove himself. Vrabel and Bruschi don't make many plays these days and are in the back 9 (more like the final 3 holes) of their careers. In fact, I think Seau was outplaying both of them this year. Colvin is the only truly good LB on this team right now. The rest are unproven and/or mediocre.

As for the backups, they are all special teamers.

As I posted earlier in another thread, the Pats will miss Seau more than Harrison in 2006.

First of all - I wonder if everyone can weigh in on the contention that Vrabel and Brucshi have suddenly become mediocre players.

Is that really the case? If it is I hadn't really noticed. I know Seau was tearing up the field with tackles - likely "taking some away" from the others - but didn't take that to mean that Bruschi and Vrabel had lost it - making Colvin the "only good LB" on the team.

TBC - yup - it's his time to step up and show what he's got, that's for sure... but I suspect that you will see more of the 4-3 just like you did last year now that the injury bug is hitting. And that's not necessarilly a bad thing as there will still be plenty of 3-4 lineups too.

Of course all the backups ARE backups - but many of the guys who start were also once backups - so its just an opportunity for them to show what they've got as well - nothing I want to bank on though - that's for sure.

 

[Pat the Pats Fan]

First of all - I wonder if everyone can weigh in on the contention that Vrabel and Brucshi have suddenly become mediocre players.

Is that really the case? If it is I hadn't really noticed. I know Seau was tearing up the field with tackles - likely "taking some away" from the others - but didn't take that to mean that Bruschi and Vrabel had lost it - making Colvin the "only good LB" on the team.

Looking at stats, Bruschi leads the team with 72 tackles, Seau is next with 69 and Vrabel is third with 67. Bruschi and Vrabel both have a pick, Seau does not. Bruschi has 1 forced fumble, Vrabel has two, Seau again does not. Looks to me like they are all contributing fairly equally on tackles.

 

[DarrylS]

Was it just me or did anyone notice the difference in the run D after Seau left on Sunday??

His loss is significant, as Vrabel moves in side, Colvin switches and TBC moves to Colvins old slot. Overall, we are not as strong as before, not sure if there is someone out there who can step in or if Mays, Woods or Izzo can help at all, but I hope these guys stay healthy.

 

[patsfan13]

I am amazed at the lack of respect for the play of Vrabel and Tedy, a little perspective here, this D is ranked @2 in the NFL for Pts allowed! Thisis a good D, especially in view of the injuries!

Clearly depth is a goncern, nore injuries will make it tough, IMO though, some of the backups can do an adequate job. Remember BB will modify responsibilities of the players to maximize their chances of success.

 

[patsfan13]

Was it just me or did anyone notice the difference in the run D after Seau left on Sunday??

His loss is significant, as Vrabel moves in side, Colvin switches and TBC moves to Colvins old slot. Overall, we are not as strong as before, not sure if there is someone out there who can step in or if Mays, Woods or Izzo can help at all, but I hope these guys stay healthy.

You have to take into account that Vrabel probably didn't take any reps at ILB in practice last week. Since he will be practicing at ILB this week you can expect his plsy to improve at ILB this week.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

The only guy I need to see more out of to form an opinion is TBC. I'm not worried about Vrabel moving inside. Seau was great but Vrabel will be fine. Perhaps TBC can come through as the next solid outside linebacker for us and replace Vrabel's production and even bring a little more speed and fresh legs. I don't know at this point.

Another injury and we can start to panic a bit.

 

[Pat the Pats Fan]

The only guy I need to see more out of to form an opinion is TBC. I'm not worried about Vrabel moving inside. Seau was great but Vrabel will be fine. Perhaps TBC can come through as the next solid outside linebacker for us and replace Vrabel's production and even bring a little more speed and fresh legs. I don't know at this point.

Another injury and we can start to panic a bit.

TBC has good speed to play the outside, as a pass rusher, and I think he has improved on coverage, but I don't think he does a good enough job setting the edge.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Converting a DE to OLB does not involve spending too much time teaching them to set the edge. So don't worry about setting the edge against the run. He has been coached to do that ever since he donned a high school jersey.

What DE to OLB conversions require as NEW ABILITIES for a player, is pass coverage skills. TBC has had four years of coaching and instruction on that. Fortunately, the Pats coaches can scheme against that, if it is indeed a problem. They will almost always rush one LB in the 3-4, while the other drops into pass coverage. Merely specifying that TBC mostly rush and Rosey mostly take the drop insures that the best abilities of the team's players are utilized.

Besides Seymour excells at setting the edge and dominating the blockers, means that TBC's job is easier for that phase of edge setting.

With Vrable and Bruschi inside, the inside speed at LB is better and probably the pass coverage skills are better too. Diagnosis is probably better too. Seau despite all his ability was a rook in this scheme, but both Vrabel and Brsuchi can write the book.

The only problem is the depth is gone. We had 5 to play 4 positions, with two fully interchangeable at any position. Remember that Mike AND Tedy were OLBs as well as ILBs, even if Tedy hasn't been out there in a while.

This LB can crew actually improve... but with the depth gone.. the NEXT hypothetical injury could really hurt.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Was it just me or did anyone notice the difference in the run D after Seau left on Sunday??

Here we go again.

Chicago
1st half rushing: 61 yds, passing: 12 of 23 for 157 yds

2nd half rushing: 92 yds, passing 3 of 11 for 19 yds

Yes, the run defense wasn't the same with Seau out, in at least one place I've read that the Bears ran at Bruschi with some success. Before we get too worked up, let's remember that the defensive game plan doesn't always make stopping the run the first priority. In this case, Chicago's offense is a big play offense, they moved the ball well in the first half, but in the second they needed the aid of St. Polian's acolytes, the back and side judges, in order to get near the end zone. The defensive game plan didn't focus on run defense, if we are going to base our run defense concerns on this game we need to take that into account.

As things currently stand, this defense did not suffer a major down grade with Seau's loss. What did take another hit was the depth chart. People have noted that the next step, be it Woods at OLB or Davis at ILB is a serious downgrade. Again, this is not the end if you think on overall team defense. The defensive line depth remains satisfactory. The secondary is hopeful with starters and key situational players on the injury report waiting to come back. The option to morph into a 4-3 defense exists, the team could even play a Belichick/Pees version of Tampa-2 with smaller faster LBs - does anyone doubt Seymour, Warren, Wilfork, and Green couldn't burn up the offensive line playing one-gap penetrators?

Life remains good, the Patriots remain viable for a strong post-season run.

People who may need to are encouraged to change their shorts and meditate to calm their nerves. Go Pats. :singing:

 

[mgteich]

I would think that both TBC and Green will now get additional reps. As Box indicated, any downgrade here should be more than made up for by even one of the defensive backs coming back to the lineup.

As I indicated in another thread, I am more worried about Seymour's health and any possible next injury than this one. We now have 9 solid front 7 players. That is enough for now.

We are now a top five defense, perhaps the best in the AFC. I think that, barring further injuries, we will continue to be a top five defense.

 

[scout]

Great post Box. I've been rather depressed all week about the lb situation until reading your comments.

 

[Canada's #1 Pats Fan]

It is always very interesting for many of us to speculate who Bellioli will bring in to 'fill in' for the injured starter (in this case Seau). I believe that they haven't jumped the gun and brought someone in is because of their next opponent - the Lion's. They want to see how Vrabel and TBC will react to new assignments whether that be moving inside or for TBC - starting and not being rotated in here and there on passing downs. If things go well this weekend then they will continue to work from there, if they don't go well (but we will still win of course) then I believe they bring in a veteran with experience in the 3-4 and experience playing inside. With that extra roster spot I don't see the harm with bringing in a Sharper or Ruff type of palyer to get the valueable experience with the system before the playoffs because heaven help us all if Izzo become a starter inside during the stretch run (I am worried about depth and not whether or not we will be fine with Vrabel inside. But this is my opinion and that is why I am typing on this site and not working in the front office with 3 rings on my fingers.

 

[pkb]

Harrison and Wilson returning, healthy, would do a good bit to alleviate my concerns here, too.

Seau/Vrabel + Hawkins + Sanders are a weaker run group than Vrabel/TBC + Harrison + Wilson, seems to me. The replacement safeties have been pretty solid in the passing game, but MUCH less involved in the running game.

Another injury to a LB would be a big problem; but, if the safeties come back the overall defense against the run is probably at least as good as what we saw the last few weeks.