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Will Moss become a very high-paid decoy?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Fencer, Aug 21, 2010.

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  1. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    The argument for having your best WR turn into a decoy is:


    • He's too good to single-cover, except in specialized scenarios (e.g., red zone, jailbreak blitz).
    • He's not good enough to beat double coverage all that often, especially if you have a bunch of other skilled targets to throw to.
    • You can refine your offensive schemes so that defenses can't get away with putting "one and a half" guys in coverage on him.

    I can't think of very many cases where that's how things have played out with a team's best WR, but the Pats also have an unusual mix of supporting factors:


    • Welker is outstanding at getting open.
    • Brady's receiving targets beyond Moss/Welker could be pretty decent.
    • Brady traditionally excels at finding and hitting the open guy.
    • Brady traditionally does not excel in his accuracy on deep balls.
    Even if I'm right in what I'm suggesting, there will be plays in which Moss runs away from double or triple coverage. And there will be plays in which he's single-covered, prudently or otherwise. But with Welker coming back from injury and the other receivers being young (or else quite aged), I'd expect defenses to frequently key on Moss and make everybody else prove it.

    The exceptions, of course, would be when they go hard after Brady and make the blockers prove it instead ...
  2. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Doesnt that assume the other team will only play man? I don't think that will be the case.
  3. FredFromDartmouth

    FredFromDartmouth Rookie

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    I am having trouble parsing the logic here. Why use the best WR in the history of the game as a decoy instead of letting him score touchdowns?
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2010
  4. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

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    And this is a good thing. a big advantage over teams that don't have someone double, or even triple teamed.

    We could either ignore it and keep trying to run up the score and get records like in 2007, or take advantage.

    In 2007, when Moss was covered we threw to watson on the sideline and he stepped out of bounds, like it was tag football.

    We need to predict the double, or triple team that will develop and run routes designed to rip through the middle of the field with Hernandez, Edelman, or Faulk leaving them in the open field and the defense out of position. Possible TD every time. Tate's bound to be covered. There's only 11 defenders, it's stupid to settle for safe plays with no YAC.

    They must be forced to decide, with the threat of a TD if they fail.

    It's also the only way Moss will get less than double coverage.
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2010
  5. emoney_33

    emoney_33 Rookie

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    I don't even understand the premise of this post...

    Last year teams had to cover ONLY Moss and Welker. Did you take a look at the year Moss had even with everything playing against the team offensively?

    Anyway, I expect the Patriots to continue to do what's best for the team even when the Fans can't fully understand it. Despite what people want you to believe, Brady has and will continue to look for a trustworthy open receiver. Moss will get throws in double coverage from time to time to keep the defense honest and because well he's (still) a freak and can make plays. But in general I fully expect the offense to do what it has always done (even in 2007) which is come up with good game plans and let Brady make good decisions as he very frequently does.
  6. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No, he won't.
  7. HEY BRO! WHAT UP?

    HEY BRO! WHAT UP? Banned

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    I just want to say that Moss will retire as a Pat for several reasons. First, Tom will make sure of it and could have leverage if Tom makes it to FA. Second, I don't think Moss wants to end his career with another team, learn another offense and get on the same page with another QB.
  8. Patjew

    Patjew PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I hope you're right. We're lucky to have Moss on this team. I was thinking of starting a thread explaining why I think that Moss is the most underappreciated Patriot ever, but then I got too lazy. To summarize it, Moss is the most underappreciated Patriot ever.
  9. Deus Irae

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    Moss beat a double team/over the top situation in the Atlanta game. Brady underthrew him. I'm not sure why you'd go the decoy route at that point.
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2010
  10. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    Do decoys catch for 1200 yards and 10 TDs? If so then possibly
  11. emoney_33

    emoney_33 Rookie

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    If a receiver is good enough to be a decoy, it doesn't make sense to use him as a decoy all season.

    If a receiver is not good enough to be a decoy, you can't use him as a decoy.
  12. Schmo

    Schmo Rookie

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    He could very well have 2007 numbers... thanks to (not despite of) our added WRs/TEs.
  13. deters

    deters Rookie

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    I wouldn't say he underthrew him much if at all. In Moss's earlier days he would have made that catch by leaping above the CB's. Now at this stage in his career esp in the preseason he doesn't want to risk injury and didn't try for the ball.
  14. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yes, because Moss is a dog faker.

    [/stupidity]

    What Patjew and ausbacker said.
  15. Brady2Welker

    Brady2Welker Rookie

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    Moss won't be a decoy. Ideally we'll want to create some sort of mismatch of pulling the S down to account for one of our TE's allowing Brady to have the pick of the match ups he sees. Either way, I don't think Belichick will want us to have super quick drives (see 2007) unless its necessary. I think he prefers the time crunching, methodical drives.
  16. pherein

    pherein Rookie

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    Reggie Bush is at 8 mil a year. It works
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2010
  17. ahmed

    ahmed Rookie

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    Brady definitely underthrew him. Moss had to slow down so the ball could reach him which gave the DBs the change to catch up to him as he way ahead of them. Even then, the ball was still behind him.

    Regarding OP, hell no. Sure, there will be situations where opposite teams will worry so much about Moss that it will leave the rest of them free but at the end of the year, I still expect him to be our most productive WR.
  18. Brady2Welker

    Brady2Welker Rookie

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    Not a knock against Reggie Bush, but he's not the cog that makes the Saints offense run. Hes an extremely talented player, but they could survive without him.
  19. eagle eye

    eagle eye Rookie

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    :rofl:

    Thats really funny Pherein.

    In the case of Moss, he is just a fantastic player who played hurt last year and there were Patriots on here saying he was dogging it which was just so stupid. He played hurt last year, guys that take plays off will take weeks off when they are hurt. He is looking like he is back to his best again this year.

    I suppose he is a decoy everytime Brady throws the ball to somebody else because everybody knows that when you hear Brady to Moss there is a big likleyhood you are going to hear TOUCHDOWN!!! very shortly after that.
  20. swheeler23

    swheeler23 Rookie

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    When was the last time Brady connected with Moss on a deep ball?
  21. Satchboogie3

    Satchboogie3 Rookie

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    I don't agree with this at all (The quick drive part). Quick drives can be extremely useful. They great early in the game if you can get a couple of quick scores and take a big lead. You put pressure on the other team and allow your offense to be run heavy. It's also helpful to have an offense that can score quickly when it comes to the end of halfs. The more weapons and more ways to score, the better. It's all about match ups. If your matched up with a weak passing D, throw all over them!
  22. Nikolai

    Nikolai Football Atheist PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Last edited: Aug 22, 2010
  23. RayClay

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    Of course you wouldn't all season. That makes as much sense as going to him continuously, allowing defenses to adjust and learn from each other, then expect him to be open late in the season (2007).

    The purpose of your offense should be to put the defense on the off balance, make them pay for overplays, then make them pay when they adjust by going back to your strength.

    Teams that win Super bowls almost always have multiple threats and use them, burning defenses whether they overplay or whether they don't.

    I'd like to see Moss get single coverage and be wide open occasionally. Only one way that's going to happen.
  24. HEY BRO! WHAT UP?

    HEY BRO! WHAT UP? Banned

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    Uh...actually it was underthrown. It looked pretty, but Moss had to slow down.
  25. tuckeverlasting

    tuckeverlasting Rookie

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    and it was pi, and i don't mean 3.14159265
  26. LoganMankinsPancakeBlocks

    LoganMankinsPancakeBlocks Rookie

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    I don't have video of it right now, but Brady also hit him on a bomb the first drive of the game that we lost @ Miami later in the year. Not sure if he had any others later in the year or not, but that one immediately came to mind for me.

    As for the topic, I don't see what would make anyone believe Moss will be a decoy. He's our most important WR (Love Wes, but Edelman can do a poor man's Welker impression, no one on our roster can do what Moss does, drawing so much attention on the outside and still being incredibly productive) and he is coming off a 1,264 yard and 13 TD season when we had absolutely no weapons aside from Welker to draw any attention off him.

    He'll continue to beat double teams like he did last year (even while hurt) and his entire career, and he'll likely see less of them with a TE that looks like he can stretch the field and be a consistent factor in the passing game in Hernandez and all the other weapons we have now.
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2010
  27. DarrylS

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    If Moss becomes a very high priced decoy, which I doubt, and the rest of the WR/TE corps run wild who cares????
  28. Fencer

    Fencer Rookie

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    Exactly. Only way it happens is if it's a very good thing, since forcing the ball to Moss isn't exactly a catastrophe scenario.
  29. SanAngeloState

    SanAngeloState Banned

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    lately, as in last year, brady seems to be always looking for moss. He throws into double coverage a lot and it never seems to work. I don't think brady has the deep ball to consistently hit the open receiver which is hard because often moss is double covered and not really open. That and brady puts a lot of air under the ball giving the safety time to come over.

    Hopefully they'll hit moss on more crossing patterns and such instead of always looking for him deep.
  30. Uncle Rico

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    With the exception of that one bomb, it does look like Brady is hitting Moss more with those crossing patterns this pre-season.

    I guess I'm struggling with the word "decoy" here. To me that implies you don't actually throw to him. They'll throw to him; they just don't HAVE to throw to him, which will be nice if it turns out that way. Last year there were basically two receiving weapons - -Moss (playing with injury, double-teamed, still a pretty good year) and Welker (123 catches while missing essentially three games).

    The bottom line is that Moss and Welker will still have to be accounted for. But there are signs that there might be other guys (TEs, Tate, Edelman) who will have to be accounted for too. Moss won't be a decoy, but the Pats will be happy to let teams over-cover him and let the other weapons be open -- then go back to Moss when the time is right, which will be a lot. Options = nice.
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