Wilfork Named in Miami Booster Scandal (Well-Corroborated Allegations)

[mgcolby]

Re: Wilfork named in Miami Mess

Whoever it was on that ESPN "roundtable" made a good point by saying let the players market themselves, if someone is willing to pay for their likeness or buy their memorabilia let them. He also stated that a student on a music scholarship doesn't lose his scholarship if he cuts a record and gets paid.

This is a mess that doesn't really have a solution IMO. its kind of like PEDS: It's only illegal if you get caught.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Re: Wilfork named in Miami Mess

oh yeah, and a free education and degree worth tens of thousands, as well as pipelining them into an industry where they can make millions.
but besides that -- NOTHING!.

How many adults with college degree's do you see making millions? Not many I bet? Look, if they are going to Cal Poly for a engineering degree or Mit for a physics degree they are probably not in it for the football aspect. That would make football their stepping stone to get where they want to go. When you see kids taking liberal arts and swimming pool maintenance classes to pass the time between practices I would think they are in it for the football side of things. Not some piece of paper that says you've been educated and now your 4 years are up pal. "Move out."

BTW.. Why is it they can they revoke your scholarship on a whim if your underperforming on the field? The anser is they want to field the best team possible to put them in a position to look good in the public eye, and for some of the bigger schools, make millions in a bowl game. Education my ass, these kids get used and the money they put up to give some of these kids education is nothing compared to the riches of the BCS.

 

[eom]

Re: Wilfork named in Miami Mess

Whoever it was on that ESPN "roundtable" made a good point by saying let the players market themselves, if someone is willing to pay for their likeness or buy their memorabilia let them. He also stated that a student on a music scholarship doesn't lose his scholarship if he cuts a record and gets paid.

This is a mess that doesn't really have a solution IMO. its kind of like PEDS: It's only illegal if you get caught.

Omfg.....one thing that never changes in all these internet 'discussions' is the horrible abuse of analogy.
I'm not entirely sure if people abuse them deliberately, trying to score some kind of internet argument point, or if they just get completely confused.
in order to discuss something you don't really need to change all the details of the subject --- confusing the issue rarely clarifies anything for the reader.

Ordinarily, I would just use my built in ignore function, but it's time to make a stand here and now- -- for our children and our children's children, before our descendents are reduced to posting random nonsense in place of the time honored internet argument.

I want YOU to explain to ME what is completely nonsensical about the music student analogy.

 

[eom]

Re: Wilfork named in Miami Mess

How many adults with college degree's do you see making millions? Not many I bet? Look, if they are going to Cal Poly for a engineering degree or Mit for a physics degree they are probably not in it for the football aspect. That would make football their stepping stone to get where they want to go. When you see kids taking liberal arts and swimming pool maintenance classes to pass the time between practices I would think they are in it for the football side of things. Not some piece of paper that says you've been educated and now your 4 years are up pal. "Move out."

BTW.. Why is it they can they revoke your scholarship on a whim if your underperforming on the field? The anser is they want to field the best team possible to put them in a position to look good in the public eye, and for some of the bigger schools, make millions in a bowl game. Education my ass, these kids get used and the money they put up to give some of these kids education is nothing compared to the riches of the BCS.

Why should jamarcus russell's kid keep collecting a scholarship gettin fat on cheetos and purple drank?

And you can make all the jokes you want about swimming pool maintenance, but you'll be whistling a different tune when you get a tough algae colony.

 

[jmt57]

Re: Wilfork named in Miami Mess

So any chances wilfork gets in trouble by the nfl?

My first thought was that he might have some issues with the IRS, not the NFL.

 

[mgcolby]

Re: Wilfork named in Miami Mess

Omfg.....one thing that never changes in all these internet 'discussions' is the horrible abuse of analogy.
I'm not entirely sure if people abuse them deliberately, trying to score some kind of internet argument point, or if they just get completely confused.
in order to discuss something you don't really need to change all the details of the subject --- confusing the issue rarely clarifies anything for the reader.

Ordinarily, I would just use my built in ignore function, but it's time to make a stand here and now- -- for our children and our children's children, before our descendents are reduced to posting random nonsense in place of the time honored internet argument.

I want YOU to explain to ME what is completely nonsensical about the music student analogy.

Really, if you need it explained to you then I don't know what to say, but I'll give it a shot. Here read this slowly:

If a student receives a MUSIC SCHOLARSHIP, then is signed by a record company and gets PAID (did you read the get PAID part?), I'll repeat, if a music student gets PAID to make music (tracking so far?) he does not become "ineligible" as a student musician and does not lose his scholarship.

And keep being a pompous ******* with your children garbage, which is ironic given your use of text lingo "OMFG". I'll try to keep things on your level from here on out, maybe we can become BFF's.

 

[upstater1]

Re: Wilfork named in Miami Mess

I don't care. The NCAA is a tyrannical society based on principles long forgotten. These players should have certain allowances considering the millions of dollars they generate to the schools. A coach can make 10 million a season but the player gets a dormitory room, books and meals? Look I'm not saying give them a thousand dollars a month but I don't think 50 dollars a week would kill them. These kids live in the moment and some of them are absolute rocks stars driving around in old clunker cars and not so fancy clothes. I can see the allure of taking gifts and money if your that good of a player. Especially if your on the bubble of being a 7th rounder or not being drafted at all.

You're right about the coaches pulling in big dough but the fact is, the vast majority of schools are deeply in the red. There are only 13 football schools that make money, and even that is questionable when you take into account debt service on facility buildouts (obviously, ADs don't issue bonds, but universities can and do). You have many schools forking over $10 million + to the AD each year and another $7 million in student fees. I once looked at the fee structure and figured out that regular students were forking over $500 a year to the athletic department, and if those students are anything like me, those are student loans that they will eventually fork out double or triple the amount on. Over 4 years, that's $2k, and paying it back over 20 years it's $5k!

Anyhow, I don't think the schools should pay the players because the programs actually lose money. I do think street hustlers and agents should be able to pay players though, but that will ruin the sport IMO.

 

[upstater1]

Re: Wilfork named in Miami Mess

Does anybody hold the position that this sort of behavior doesn't happen at every college program of note? I would think something such as this is more the norm than the exception. It also doesn't bother me in the slightest.

It doesn't happen at a few schools. I bet it doesn't happen at Penn State, for instance.

 

[upstater1]

Re: Wilfork named in Miami Mess

The NCAA's rules against paying players are monopsonistic and immoral, especially since teams turn around and pressure the players not to take full advantage of their educational opportunities so as to spend more energy on sports. (IIRC, Ben Watson said that's a big part of why he transferred from Duke to Georgia; he wasn't getting a real Duke education anyway.) The players aren't benefiting much from the credential side of the degree, either; indeed, most don't get degrees any more.

There are strong arguments in favor of the players somehow having a low pay scale, although I don't think I even agree with those. Their pay surely shouldn't be room/board/tuition/zero other as it officially is now.

Most D1 players do get a degree, believe it or not. The figures are inline with the regular student population.

I can't agree with you guys for two reasons:

1. Schools don't make much if any money from sports (especially because of Title 9)

2. The marketplace is such that their skills would be next to worthless in the open market. Most fans root for the jerseys. There is no semi-pro league out there. Look at basketball. There's a minor league out there and the players get peanuts playing in front of sparse crowds in Fargo. Minor league football would be worse. Plus, the basketball players can always up and play for European teams and make money if they wanted, like Brandon Jennings did. But they forego it. Why? Because they know the exposure in college ball is great.

 

[eom]

Re: Wilfork named in Miami Mess

I want YOU to explain to ME what is completely nonsensical about the music student analogy.

Really, if you need it explained to you then I don't know what to say, but I'll give it a shot. Here read this slowly:

If a student receives a MUSIC SCHOLARSHIP, then is signed by a record company and gets PAID (did you read the get PAID part?), I'll repeat, if a music student gets PAID to make music (tracking so far?) he does not become "ineligible" as a student musician and does not lose his scholarships:

in many ways this post is like kicking an orphan in the balls.

 

[upstater1]

Re: Wilfork named in Miami Mess

Whoever it was on that ESPN "roundtable" made a good point by saying let the players market themselves, if someone is willing to pay for their likeness or buy their memorabilia let them. He also stated that a student on a music scholarship doesn't lose his scholarship if he cuts a record and gets paid.

This is a mess that doesn't really have a solution IMO. its kind of like PEDS: It's only illegal if you get caught.

I wouldn't listen to ESPN talking heads about anything. The truth is that kids on scholarships or assistantships or fellowships all sign documents that limit their outside income to summer work. I know I signed such a paper and was forbidden from moonlighting during the school year.

I don't disagree with your larger point, but I am saying that all other students who receive funding are held to the same standards. What's going on is this: people agree to be "used" by a non-profit university in order to receive training for future careers. That's what it's about.

The only thing that frankly reeks in the whole exchange is coaches' salaries, which are extraordinarily high. But the school itself only benefits in terms of campus spirit.

 

[upstater1]

Re: Wilfork named in Miami Mess

Really, if you need it explained to you then I don't know what to say, but I'll give it a shot. Here read this slowly:

If a student receives a MUSIC SCHOLARSHIP, then is signed by a record company and gets PAID (did you read the get PAID part?), I'll repeat, if a music student gets PAID to make music (tracking so far?) he does not become "ineligible" as a student musician and does not lose his scholarship.

And keep being a pompous ******* with your children garbage, which is ironic given your use of text lingo "OMFG". I'll try to keep things on your level from here on out, maybe we can become BFF's.

Are you certain?

 

[mgcolby]

Re: Wilfork named in Miami Mess

It doesn't happen at a few schools. I bet it doesn't happen at Penn State, for instance.

I would like to think JOPA runs a clean program and I'm sure he thinks he does, but no one can really know what a booster or an agent is doing off campus. Now that goes out the window when half of your team is riding around in sports cars cough*Ohio State*cough.

If it is ok with EOM I would like to use another analogy:

To me it is like Steroids in Baseball, I would have never guessed that Rafael Palmeiro was juicing. But I think it becomes more about survival, if everyone else is doing it you are almost forced to in order to keep the playing field somewhat even. Or at the least turn a blind eye to it, which is what I believe happens more often than schools actually getting themselves involved in the details of it. Plausible deniability needs to be in play at the Staff/Admin level, IMO.

It's a complicated issue that seemingly has no real solution, every proposed solution that I have heard is still ripe for abuse.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Re: Wilfork named in Miami Mess

It doesn't happen at a few schools. I bet it doesn't happen at Penn State, for instance.

PSU and BYU are the only two Div 1 schools never to get a major violation in any sport.

 

[sbpatfan]

Re: Wilfork named in Miami Mess

I would like to think JOPA runs a clean program and I'm sure he thinks he does, but no one can really know what a booster or an agent is doing off campus. Now that goes out the window when half of your team is riding around in sports cars cough*Ohio State*cough.

If it is ok with EOM I would like to use another analogy:

To me it is like Steroids in Baseball, I would have never guessed that Rafael Palmeiro was juicing. But I think it becomes more about survival, if everyone else is doing it you are almost forced to in order to keep the playing field somewhat even. Or at the least turn a blind eye to it, which is what I believe happens more often than schools actually getting themselves involved in the details of it. Plausible deniability needs to be in play at the Staff/Admin level, IMO.

It's a compicated issue that seemingly has no real solution, every proposed solution that I have heard is still ripe for abuse.

Dude, all you need to do is watch this video. The entire game of baseball has never been clean.

No Mas Presents: Dock Ellis & The LSD No-No by James Blagden - YouTube

Steroids, uppers, whatever. They all do it.

 

[Gwedd]

Re: Wilfork named in Miami Mess

Well, as a Music Major in college, I would have been scr3wed, blued and tattooed had they treated me like an athlete.

I had a scholarship and I also was freely racking up bucks playing gigs in my off hours. It was th only way I made it through school. I didn't have any family support and the scholarship only paid for tuition & books, all the fees and my costs for an apartment, and food fell squarely on mu own shoulders.

If an athlete in ANY sport can get some bucks from an agent or an endorsement or a booster of wherever, then God Bless him and may the NCAA leave him the h3ll alone.

 

[ausbacker]

Re: Wilfork named in Miami Mess

Really, if you need it explained to you then I don't know what to say, but I'll give it a shot. Here read this slowly:

If a student receives a MUSIC SCHOLARSHIP, then is signed by a record company and gets PAID (did you read the get PAID part?), I'll repeat, if a music student gets PAID to make music (tracking so far?) he does not become "ineligible" as a student musician and does not lose his scholarship.

And keep being a pompous ******* with your children garbage, which is ironic given your use of text lingo "OMFG". I'll try to keep things on your level from here on out, maybe we can become BFF's.

I thought your initial point made perfect sense. A person doesn't have to agree with it, but it made sense.

 

[ausbacker]

Re: Wilfork named in Miami Mess

It doesn't happen at a few schools. I bet it doesn't happen at Penn State, for instance.

I did say every college program of note did I not?

 

[mgcolby]

Re: Wilfork named in Miami Mess

Are you certain?

Nope, I was just repeating what I heard. And EOM needed the analogy spelled out for him.

Given that most non-sports scholarships are given based on a combination of need and talent and are year to year, its more than possible that after the student gets paid for making music they are no longer eligible for a scholarship the next school year based on need. But I doubt they would come back and ask for the previous year's scholarship money back. And it varies from school to school.

What I do know is that none of the faculty members on the panel spoke out against the statement.

 

[eom]

Re: Wilfork named in Miami Mess

I would like to think JOPA runs a clean program and I'm sure he thinks he does, but no one can really know what a booster or an agent is doing off campus. Now that goes out the window when half of your team is riding around in sports cars cough*Ohio State*cough.

If it is ok with EOM I would like to use another analogy:

To me it is like Steroids in Baseball,

to me it's like college kids playing football.
in fact, when you really think about it, steroids in baseball is a lot like college kids playing football --- but what isn't?