Who is the first Patriot with a Patriots SB ring to get inducted into the HOF

[Ring 6]

Re: Who is the first Patriot with a Patriot SB ring to get inducted into the HOF

Drew Bledsoe looks real competitive with guys like Jim Kelly and Phil Simms. Drew also gets bonus points for being a man when replaced by Brady and for winning the AFC Championship game with that drive in 2001-02. If Drew's not the back up, the Dynasty never gets started. What if BB had to go to Rohan Davie in that game? Yikes! Drew deserves lots of love from these parts for the leadership and his stats. 1996 SB never happens without Drew and Curtis and Tuna and BB and Vinatieri and McGinest and all of 'em.

You are going to give him 'bonus points' to the HOF because of how he handled his benching? Even if 'like a man' wasnt totally incorrect, thats crazy.
Any close to competant QB steps in for Brady and we win that game. Bledsoe made more poor plays than good ones in that game. We won despite him, not because of him.

 

[signbabybrady]

Re: Who is the first Patriot with a Patriot SB ring to get inducted into the HOF

Who in tha heck are CD and JR? I'm shur the second I'm told, I'd go "duh. Oh yeah." but I'm drawing a blank right now.

In case you haven't figured it out yet.
CD = Corey Dillon
&
JR = Junior Seau



As to the thread: I think there have been some interesting debates and I agree with most when they say BB and Brady are the only first Ballot hall of famers but those who are borderline or better may have several ballots before these two get to their first Ballot.

I think two guys who may be overlooked but who are totally deserving are Drew and Willie......when you think about how much success this team has had in the Kraft era and how dominant the Patriots have been during that era and then think of what Drew and Willie did to make that possible and then add in the fact that while their stats may not blow off the hall of fame doors there are guys in there with similar stats.

Lastly and this isn't exclusive to Willie or Drew but some of these guys like Bru or Law who also may not have blow the doors off stats will get some setiment as the years go by as the one thing the Hall loves is multiple champions and dynastic players. I think early it might be a little frustrating as our guys may take some time to get in but when it is all said and done 100 years from now a ton of these guys will be in.

To me there are three main criteria for the hall and it takes som combination of the three and if you are lacking in one you better seriously dominate another.

1) Stats - if you hae the numbers like Marino nothing else really matters.
2) Skills compared to peers - Example: I think Drew is helped out by this a little as for close to a decade(ok maybe 6 years or so) he was comparably good as any of his peers in the league(including guys like Farve, Young, and Marino). and that included plenty of guys who are in the hall or will be in. In the end this may not be enough but I think puts him close.
3) Be a key part and leader on a Dynasty or multiple with different teams.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Re: Who is the first Patriot with a Patriot SB ring to get inducted into the HOF

You are going to give him 'bonus points' to the HOF because of how he handled his benching? Even if 'like a man' wasnt totally incorrect, thats crazy.
Any close to competant QB steps in for Brady and we win that game. Bledsoe made more poor plays than good ones in that game. We won despite him, not because of him.

While I agree completely about Drew's over rated performance in that game, I shudder at the horrific thought of Rohan Davey coming in when Brady got hurt.

This is a great thread topic. Good comments.

 

[signbabybrady]

Re: Who is the first Patriot with a Patriot SB ring to get inducted into the HOF

Accumultors dont tend to get HOF votes. Quality is required.
Whatever you think of Bledose, clearly he wasnt one of the best QBs of his genertion, which is and should be the standard.

I am going to qualify his generation as the 90s and I will argue during the 90s he certainly wasnt better than these guys but he was comparibly great to guys like Farve, Young, Marino, and anyone else who played in that decade.

You say accumulators dont tend to get in the hall but just assume that Drew continued to play and found another team after Dallas that didn't stumble into a Romo type and he was able to keep a starting spot for 4 or 5 more years which I think his body would have allowed. He would have IMO accumulated some undeniable hall of fame numbers but he left when he knew it was over rather than hanging on to long.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Who is the first Patriot with a Patriot SB ring to get inducted into the HOF

I am going to qualify his generation as the 90s and I will argue during the 90s he certainly wasnt better than these guys but he was comparibly great to guys like Farve, Young, Marino, and anyone else who played in that decade.

Based on what? Great? Come on. If he didnt play in a system that let him throw the ball 700 times he was Boomer Esiason. And that isnt a complement.
You are looking at yards. Look at completion %, look at yards per pass or per completion, look at TDs, look at Ints. Bledsoe was significantly inferior to the best qBs of his era in all those categories, but amassed yardage totals because he threw a lot more times. That isn't HOF caliber.

You say accumulators dont tend to get in the hall but just assume that Drew continued to play and found another team after Dallas that didn't stumble into a Romo type and he was able to keep a starting spot for 4 or 5 more years which I think his body would have allowed. He would have IMO accumulated some undeniable hall of fame numbers but he left when he knew it was over rather than hanging on to long.

Your argument is if he was a better QB and didnt get benched or some team wanted him he would have gotten better stats and those stats that he didnt get would make him HOF, so put him in the HOF because you know, he could have? Lets put everyone in then.

 

[signbabybrady]

Re: Who is the first Patriot with a Patriot SB ring to get inducted into the HOF

Based on what? Great? Come on. If he didnt play in a system that let him throw the ball 700 times he was Boomer Esiason. And that isnt a complement.
You are looking at yards. Look at completion %, look at yards per pass or per completion, look at TDs, look at Ints. Bledsoe was significantly inferior to the best qBs of his era in all those categories, but amassed yardage totals because he threw a lot more times. That isn't HOF caliber.

I think you are thinking about the Drew from 99 until he was replaced by Tom but for his first six years he was close to as good as anyone in the league and then his coach left and the team began to decline as the team began turning it around he was replaced by the greatest QB of all time and had to move on and he moved onto Buffalo and had one of the best years of his career there proving that 99-01 had more to do with bad management then Drew. Really IMO Drew's career compares very well to Farve'e except for a few things Farve beat him 96 (biggest few things), Farve wasn't replaced in Green Bay until very recently though Green Bay and Farve had some very ugly years a al Drew 99-injury, Farve never walked away like Drew, and last but not least Green Bay never turned on Brett the way half the fan base did here on Drew.

Your argument is if he was a better QB and didnt get benched or some team wanted him he would have gotten better stats and those stats that he didnt get would make him HOF, so put him in the HOF because you know, he could have? Lets put everyone in then.

No I am saying that after he left New England he was at an age where he got screwed out of a few jobs because they went with talented youth over him (by the way it worked out in Dallas but not Buffallo) but my point was not to say those should have gone any different my point was that even after that his body and skills still would have allowed him to start for a team and he would have acumulated even more career stats and IMO it could have moved his stats into the undeniable HOF category.



Note: I guess in the end I have to concede that Drew may never get in and that may not be wrong but I think he certainly would have got in if he just played until his 40's amassing more numbers or if things in his career unfolded a little different he might have had a chance to win one on his own. What could have been different: Parcells not leaving the team high and dry, Brady not coming around (I think BB and Drew could have won one if Brady never came along assuming a. BB got enough years and b. all other player accuisitions were the same), Buffallo not going with youth over him, to a lot lesser of a degree if Romo never happened, and/or he just kept playing.

 

[Ryan]

Re: Who is the first Patriot with a Patriot SB ring to get inducted into the HOF

No I am saying that after he left New England he was at an age where he got screwed out of a few jobs because they went with talented youth over him (by the way it worked out in Dallas but not Buffallo) but my point was not to say those should have gone any different my point was that even after that his body and skills still would have allowed him to start for a team and he would have acumulated even more career stats and IMO it could have moved his stats into the undeniable HOF category.

In regards to the bolded part, I've always thought that Buffalo should have stuck with Drew after 2004. They started to play really well the 2nd half of that season and nearly made the playoffs.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Who is the first Patriot with a Patriot SB ring to get inducted into the HOF

I think you are thinking about the Drew from 99 until he was replaced by Tom but for his first six years he was close to as good as anyone in the league and then his coach left and the team began to decline as the team began turning it around he was replaced by the greatest QB of all time and had to move on and he moved onto Buffalo and had one of the best years of his career there proving that 99-01 had more to do with bad management then Drew. Really IMO Drew's career compares very well to Farve'e except for a few things Farve beat him 96 (biggest few things), Farve wasn't replaced in Green Bay until very recently though Green Bay and Farve had some very ugly years a al Drew 99-injury, Farve never walked away like Drew, and last but not least Green Bay never turned on Brett the way half the fan base did here on Drew.

I know your argument is emotional, but come on.
Thats just crazy.
Again look at %, TD, Int, they dont belong in the saeme discussion.
Favre's Packers 'bad years'? Favre had 1 losing season in 20 NFL years.

No I am saying that after he left New England he was at an age where he got screwed out of a few jobs because they went with talented youth over him (by the way it worked out in Dallas but not Buffallo) but my point was not to say those should have gone any different my point was that even after that his body and skills still would have allowed him to start for a team and he would have acumulated even more career stats and IMO it could have moved his stats into the undeniable HOF category.

His skills got him run out of Buffalo when they had no one else, and benched in Dallas. He wasn't 'screwed' in Dallas because they stumbled onto Romo, they licked out that Romo could play after being forced to put him in because Drew was abysmal.
His skills added up to not one NFL team wanted him after Dallas cu him loose because of playing poorly.

Hell lets recreate history nd say Bernie Kosar was screwed by BB and if he had signed with a team that didnt have good QBs after that, he would have set all time NFL records.

You are miles off the mark here.



Note: I guess in the end I have to concede that Drew may never get in and that may not be wrong but I think he certainly would have got in if he just played until his 40's amassing more numbers or if things in his career unfolded a little different he might have had a chance to win one on his own. What could have been different: Parcells not leaving the team high and dry, Brady not coming around (I think BB and Drew could have won one if Brady never came along assuming a. BB got enough years and b. all other player accuisitions were the same), Buffallo not going with youth over him, to a lot lesser of a degree if Romo never happened, and/or he just kept playing.

 

[signbabybrady]

Re: Who is the first Patriot with a Patriot SB ring to get inducted into the HOF

I know your argument is emotional, but come on.
Thats just crazy.
Again look at %, TD, Int, they dont belong in the saeme discussion.
Favre's Packers 'bad years'? Favre had 1 losing season in 20 NFL years.

I think we both fall on some extreme ends of this argument and I think as much as my argument is emotional yours may be equally as emotional as I am guessing you fall into the fandom that wanted Bishop over Drew.


Can you at least agree that thru Drew's first 6 years or so he was on the track for the Hall of Fame?

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Who is the first Patriot with a Patriot SB ring to get inducted into the HOF

I think we both fall on some extreme ends of this argument and I think as much as my argument is emotional yours may be equally as emotional as I am guessing you fall into the fandom that wanted Bishop over Drew.


Can you at least agree that thru Drew's first 6 years or so he was on the track for the Hall of Fame?

Absolutely not. I loved Drew. But he was what he was. To compare him to Steve Young or Brett Favre is ridiculous.

No. He was not on track for the Hall of Fame.
I dont have time right now, but will respond to this later on.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Who is the first Patriot with a Patriot SB ring to get inducted into the HOF

I think we both fall on some extreme ends of this argument and I think as much as my argument is emotional yours may be equally as emotional as I am guessing you fall into the fandom that wanted Bishop over Drew.


Can you at least agree that thru Drew's first 6 years or so he was on the track for the Hall of Fame?

Why would I have to hate Drew or want an incompetant QB to play ahead of him to think he isnt a HALL OF FAMER or comparable to the best QBs of his era?
Thats like saying you wish we kept him and traded Brady. I wouldnt think of insulting you by saying that.

 

[signbabybrady]

Re: Who is the first Patriot with a Patriot SB ring to get inducted into the HOF

Why would I have to hate Drew or want an incompetant QB to play ahead of him to think he isnt a HALL OF FAMER or comparable to the best QBs of his era?
Thats like saying you wish we kept him and traded Brady. I wouldnt think of insulting you by saying that.

Sorry you are right you dont have to be in the Drew haters camp to think he is not hall of fame worthy.

For me I look at a guy like Fouts and think Drew belongs in and then I look at some of the guys from the 90s who will get in or are in already and I think back to the 90s and there was time when I would not have traded Drew for any of them (obviously proved to be off base but he was close to those guys at that point in his career). And I fully admit that other than one season in Buffalo his Hall of Fame credentials end there and I guess that is where my emotions come in. I still think he should at least be considered and hope somehow he comes up against a weak year and gets in.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Re: Who is the first Patriot with a Patriot SB ring to get inducted into the HOF

Although Larry Centers is a good choice, don't think he'll realistically get in for while.

I'd go with Corey Dillon, mostly because his numbers are most likely the best for early consideration (not 1st ballot but perhaps 2nd, 3rd, 4th). His stats are pretty good (11,241, career 4.3 ypc, 4 time pro-bowler (in 10 years), Ring, 14th all time R yards/ 1124/yr ave.)

Those numbers are certainly not bad, and better then some that are already in. Plus he's got a few other "feathers" that are nice demonstrations of how exciting a player he was to watch in his prime. He had (since been broken) the Single-game rushing record (he broke Walter Payton's record), and Rookie Single game rushing record (he broke Jim Brown's record). For 6-7 years he was the single bright spot on an otherwise sh!tty Cincinnati team. That doesn't include his monster season in NE either. He has better individual stats then Bettis does and most people think he'll get in too (CD played 10 seasons to Bettis's 13).

One thing holding him back is that he was a monumental douche in Cinci. However, his "rehab" time in NE will likely wash enough of that to eventually get him in.

He's eligible in 2012, and it will likely take him 2-3 attempts, which would put him in around 2014-2016 if he goes in at all. I don't see anyone getting in before that. Unless Moss, BB, or Brady retires at the end of this year.

There is also NO question, he'll go in as a Patriot.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Who is the first Patriot with a Patriot SB ring to get inducted into the HOF

Sorry you are right you dont have to be in the Drew haters camp to think he is not hall of fame worthy.

For me I look at a guy like Fouts and think Drew belongs in and then I look at some of the guys from the 90s who will get in or are in already and I think back to the 90s and there was time when I would not have traded Drew for any of them (obviously proved to be off base but he was close to those guys at that point in his career). And I fully admit that other than one season in Buffalo his Hall of Fame credentials end there and I guess that is where my emotions come in. I still think he should at least be considered and hope somehow he comes up against a weak year and gets in.

It's sad it always comes to this...


He wasn't replaced in Buffalo or Dallas because they craved a youth movement. Each team wanted to win and brought him in for that reason. He was 29 when Buffalo traded a first for him. Drew became increasingly insubordinate in both venues. It got so bad in Buffalo once his adreneline to show Bill wore off midway through that first season that they couldn't even trust him to call a foin flip as instructed by year 3. And we all saw what happened in Dallas because it unfolded on MNF. To the HC who drafted him and was willing to give him a third chance...

He never would have won here. If you watched that AFCC game in Pittsburgh without rose colored glasses that was pretty clear. He wasn't a fit for a system predicated on consistently making the correct decision based on pre and post snap defensive reads in a split second and trusting your teamates and the system to perform rather than your arm to just sling it. He wasn't coachable, at least not in long stretches. A trait he and Favre shared. He and Tuna butted heads out of the gate. He wanted him gone as much as Tuna wanted out. Then he **** all over Pete who strove to treat him and his toady's like men... Parcell's made the mistake of believing he'd matured after Buffalo and would be more open to coaching. The play he was benched on was in Tuna's own works an act of insubordination. He thought he saw something that was better than what he'd been in no uncertain terms been coached to do. After the benching he refused to back up Romo. Tuna had to talk Jerry into Drew. That was one more nail in the coffin of that relationship.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Who is the first Patriot with a Patriot SB ring to get inducted into the HOF

Although Larry Centers is a good choice, don't think he'll realistically get in for while.

I'd go with Corey Dillon, mostly because his numbers are most likely the best for early consideration (not 1st ballot but perhaps 2nd, 3rd, 4th). His stats are pretty good (11,241, career 4.3 ypc, 4 time pro-bowler (in 10 years), Ring, 14th all time R yards/ 1124/yr ave.)

Those numbers are certainly not bad, and better then some that are already in. Plus he's got a few other "feathers" that are nice demonstrations of how exciting a player he was to watch in his prime. He had (since been broken) the Single-game rushing record (he broke Walter Payton's record), and Rookie Single game rushing record (he broke Jim Brown's record). For 6-7 years he was the single bright spot on an otherwise sh!tty Cincinnati team. That doesn't include his monster season in NE either. He has better individual stats then Bettis does and most people think he'll get in too (CD played 10 seasons to Bettis's 13).

One thing holding him back is that he was a monumental douche in Cinci. However, his "rehab" time in NE will likely wash enough of that to eventually get him in.

He's eligible in 2012, and it will likely take him 2-3 attempts, which would put him in around 2014-2016 if he goes in at all. I don't see anyone getting in before that. Unless Moss, BB, or Brady retires at the end of this year.

There is also NO question, he'll go in as a Patriot.

It will likely take Dillon longer because of some of the other RB's who will be waiting their turn ahead of him. Not sure who will plead his case, either, and in the end that counts.

 

[Dragda]

Re: Who is the first Patriot with a Patriot SB ring to get inducted into the HOF

Players don't wear uniforms at the induction or in the hall. I've been at the ceremnoies for the induction the bust mentions each team and years they played for. There are very few "lockers" of players. The player will thank all the teams they played for. The fans decide it, really. I am here in Canton right now. There are thousands of Rice jerseys. They are almost all 49er jerseys--only a very few Raiders. I haven't seen a single AZ Cardinal jersey for Emmit.

I will go along with that.

Winning Super Bowl rings does not automatically qualify a player for getting into the HOF. I am sure that there are many multiple ring winners on different teams that do not have the credentials to get in.

Brady obviously does, as does Belichick.

Bruschi, for example, with his three rings will probably not get in. He will, I assume, make his way into the Patriots HOF someday but because they only allow one per year it oculd be a long, long wait. I think the Pats need to change that to allow 2 or 3 per year instead of just one.

Moss will get in but which team will he wear the uniform of. My guess is that it will be the Patriots because of his record breaking season.

Beyond those three, there really aren't any players that I can think of that have the numbers for the HOF.

 

[efin98]

Re: Who is the first Patriot with a Patriot SB ring to get inducted into the HOF

I'd say:
If we win the SB this year, Moss goes in as a Pat.
If we extend him so he retires a Pat, he goes in as a Pat.
If we do neither of the above, he goes in as a Viking.

This isn't baseball, you don't go in "as a Pat" or "as a Viking"- you go in as yourself. His career in New England as well as Oakland and Minnesota are going to be recognized and he will be listed under all three teams' Hall of Famer lists.

 

[efin98]

Re: Who is the first Patriot with a Patriot SB ring to get inducted into the HOF

Unfortunately, many of those are posthumously.

For the 20s and 30s and 40s players that is true and a shame, but thankfully for the recent 50s and 60s and now the 70s era guys it isn't too bad as most have gotten the honor while still living...Henry Jordan, Bob Hayes, and George Allen were the only ones who was inducted posthumously not from the 20s/30s/40s.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Re: Who is the first Patriot with a Patriot SB ring to get inducted into the HOF

Colts are 1-1 with him and 1-1 without him. Colts have been to the SB 4 times.

I thought he was hurt and didn't suit up for XLIV. But congrats on noting that the Baltimore team went to SB's III and V.

 

[signbabybrady]

Re: Who is the first Patriot with a Patriot SB ring to get inducted into the HOF

For the 20s and 30s and 40s players that is true and a shame, but thankfully for the recent 50s and 60s and now the 70s era guys it isn't too bad as most have gotten the honor while still living...Henry Jordan, Bob Hayes, and George Allen were the only ones who was inducted posthumously not from the 20s/30s/40s.

And the great Derek Thomas.