nickw308810 said:
Of course your safeties play zone in 2 coverage. What else would they do? If they had to man up it wouldn't be cover 2. We aren't in cover 2 every single play though.
I never said we were. I suggest you go back and read your own comments again.
nickw308810 said:
I have no doubt that they have experience playing coverage. But as a LB they aren't usually going to have to cover a whole side of the field like a safety would.
This is really bad. LBs usually don't have to cover a whole side of the field? REALLY? Are you sure you played football? Last I looked, an ILB in the Patriots defense had to be able to cover his half of the field and 25% of the other half.
nickw308810 said:
That is a big transition to make. Our SS for most of this year was Artrell Hawkins, a CB.
Our SS was Hawkins because he was the only one who we brought in who could handle the position on a full time basis. It had more to do with his leadership ability and his play recognition ability than it did the fact he was a former CB. If there had been a LB available whom BB felt could make that transition, then that is who the Pats would have brought in.
nickw308810 said:
Our versatility has always been one of our strengths. Having Safeties that can cover WR is part of what makes our defense so good.
When are you going to stop telling me things that I already know?
nickw308810 said:
You lose that if you put a player like Ellison or McGarigle back there. Plus if the injury bug continues those players couldn't be moved around in the secondary. They would have to play only SS, thus basically wasting a roster spot. Plus I read on NFLDraftblitz.com that Ellison and McGarigle's main weakness are their pass coverage. I do agree that McGarigle is a good player though. Could he put on enough weight to be an ILB for us?
1st off, you can expect the injury bug to hit. 2ndly, Since you missed it, we have quite a few players who aren't versatile. Are those players a waste of space? A player like Larry Izzo who is basically only a special teamer and can't play on every down because he's a liability?
As for what NFLDraftBlitz.com says, who are they and what credibility do they acutally have? I use NFLDraftScout.com, the site that NFL.com defers to for their evaluations of players. But that isn't the only site. I also review others looking for commonalities.
nickw308810 said:
McGinest and Vrabel are possibly the 2 heaviest OLB in the league. Well besides Shawn Merriman. To gain the speed and the agility needed to make that switch he will have to lose some weight. Our other OLB Colvin is about 20 lbs lighter than them.
How much more speed does Hali need? He runs a 4.75-40. He is quick already. Sorry to burst your bubble, but you obvioulsy haven't seen Hali play if you think that he needs to lose weight to gain speed and agility. BTW, Colvin is listed at 250, but he is heavier than that. Heck, Bruschi was listed at 245, but he said, himself, in an interview that he plays at 255 regularly.
What you seem to be failing to grasp is that 3-4 OLBs aren't the same as 4-3 OLBs.
nickw308810 said:
He is also good against the run though for a Dlineman, which makes him a good candidate for DE in the 3-4. I just feel from watching him play that it would be more likely to do that then move to OLB. I think it is one of those agree to disagree type situations.
Do you even read what you write? Hali being good against the run doesn't mean that he will be a good DE candidate. Why? Because to succeed as a Pats 3-4 DE he'd have to put on 25-30 lbs. This is what you fail to understand. Adding that much weight at this stage of the game would probably be detrimental to him. If ANYTHING, his being good against the run would be a bigger PLUS as a 3-4 OLB than a hinderance.
Its not a matter of agreeing to disagree. Its a matter that you clearly don't understand what you are talking about.
nickw308810 said:
Well, first of all I think you are underestimating just how good Willie McGinest is. Not every player his size can make that switch. Maybe Kiwi can make the switch, but there are players out there who will be a lot less of a risk in doing so.
I understand just how good Willie McGinest is. I also understand that any player who works his tail off can make the switch. I also understand that if McGinest hadn't made the switch, he'd probably would have had to retire from injuries or he wouldn't be a Patriot. And not every player the size of Kiwi can add the 20 lbs he would need to be a successful 4-3 DE in the league.
nickw308810 said:
All LBs cover, it is part of being a LB, but like you said it usually is a TE or RB. Getting Ben Watson or Daniel Graham on a LB is a mismatch in our favor. Even having a LB cover Kevin Faulk is a mismatch. Good luck against a premier WR. As a LB they were in a tighter space. If they got beat someone would usually be there to make the tackle before too much yardage was gained. As a safety you are the last line of defense. If you get beat it is going for 6 90% of the time. Rodney Harrison also has the ability to cover a WR, but not as great as he use to be. The LBs will not only be lacking speed, but I doubt they will have the agility and fluid hips like a traditional DB
Do you think that by telling me things I already know regarding the different positions is actually helping your case? Its not.
Rodney Harrison was moved to Strong Safety because his coverage skills were under-rated by the coaches in San Diego. He was much better at coverage than he was given credit for.
What you fail to understand is that the Patriots safeties are rarely put in a position where they are one on one with an opponents WR. What you also ignore is the fact that the Patriots adjust their schemes to the people they have on the field. They make it a point to put players in a position to succeed. Not Fail. Its why the Pats had their scout receivers line up 5 yards beyond the LOS in practices for the Rams so that the corners would realize just how quickly the WRs would be on them.
nickw308810 said:
I am not stereotyping anything. I know players switch positions. I want us to draft some DBs to play multiple positions. But the guys you mentioned aren't the players to do it. You look at players like Michael Huff, Ko Simpson, Darnell Bing, Danieal Manning, Antonio Cromartie, Jimmy Williams, and Greg Blue among many others and you know you can move those guys around in your defensive backfield. Give me DBs with versatility all day before a LB who can only play SS. Maybe those guys were bad examples because most will be day 1 picks, but you get the idea.
If you aren't stereotyping them, then what you are doing? You are sitting there making claims that you just can't back up and saying, basically, that you don't believe they could be successful because YOU said so.
Also, I have to greatly disagree with you. I look at someone like Darnell Bing and I see someone that got over-rated because of the fact he was on USC. I look at Greg Blue and I see a player who has problems wrapping up and who didn't impress me in coverage. When someone mentions Antonio Cromartie, I laugh because here is a guy who tore his ACL and may or may not be able to participate in the combine activities OR the Pro-Day activities. So no one knows what he can really do.
I also don't believe you could line those guys up at any of the DB positions and they would be successful.
nickw308810 said:
DaBruinz said:
Tedy Bruschi - College DE to OLB to ILB
Willie McGinest - 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB
Mike Vrabel - 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB to 3-4 ILB (also #3 TE)
Richard Seymour - 4-3 DT to 3-4 DE
Eugene Wilson - CB to FS
Troy Brown - WR to Nickel Corner
Tom Ashworth - OT to TE to FB
Rosie Colvin - 4-3 OLB/DE to 3-4 OLB
Dan Klecko - 3-4 NT to 4-3 DE to ILB to FB
Again none of those moves are to S from LB. You can throw Don Davis' name out there, but that was out of necessity. He wasn't good enough to do it. And I don't doubt that we will draft a DE to play OLB, I just doubt it would be those 2. Could they do it? Possibly, but it just isn't the best fit for them. Manny Lawson, Stanley McGlover, Elvis Dumerville, and my sleeper Justin Parrish are better fits. I would rather stay put, trade down, or wait a few rounds in Parrish's case than have to trade up for Kiwi and Hali.
So, none of them are moves from LB to Safety. Sorry that I forgot to mention Don Davis moving from LB to FS. Davis was good enough to help the Patriots to a SB. Sorry that you was to discredit that.
As for what you doubt, good for you. You've not provided one shred of evidence to support your claims.
BTW, do you always make things up? Who said ANYTHING about trading up for Kiwi or Hali? I believe that one or both could slip down to 21. In fact, Its looking like Kiwi should have declared last year because his value is seen as a late 1st early 2nd, where last year he was viewed as a Top 10 pick.
nickw308810 said:
I agree we aren't in a position to question them if they think they can do it than I will be the first to admit I am wrong. But I just don't see it happening.