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Where did "Nation" start?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PatriotsReign, Dec 13, 2007.

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  1. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    I've debated a few fans outside New England on who & where the term "Nation" started....as in Patriot Nation/Red Sox Nation. I contend that it started here in New England and was coined by Dan Shaunessey sometime back in the 1980's. I love to tell fans from other regions that they're just Patriot Nation copy-cats & wannabe's...I just hope I'm right!:confused:

    Can anyone offer me more on this?
  2. PittPatriot

    PittPatriot PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I am not sure about the true origins...it'd be nice if the Globe/Shaughnessy did a column on it. I think 'Red Sox Nation' is recognized above all else because the Sox have a following in virtually every American city.

    I think the closest thing to a football nation would have to be the Steelers. The Cowboys/Niners used to fall under 'America's team', but I don't think they have a 'Nation.' I definitely don't buy the Pats as having a national fan base outside of tranplanted New Englanders (like me). May be they have a young cohort of fans from the recent SB championships, but otherwise, they were the NFL's bastard children for the past half century.
    I see Steelers' garb worn quite commonly in every city I have lived in...but that doesn't give them a Nation.

    Go Sox! May the Mitchell report shed light on those dirty Yankees!
  3. rodrust

    rodrust Rookie

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    "Red Sox Nation is a term given to fans of the Boston Red Sox. The phrase "Red Sox Nation" was first coined by Boston Globe feature writer Nathan Cobb in an October 20, 1986 article about split allegiances among fans in Connecticut during the 1986 World Series between Red Sox and the New York Mets. The phrase was popularized by the 1996 book At Fenway: Dispatches From Red Sox Nation (ISBN 0-517-70104-9) by Globe columnist Dan Shaughnessy."

    REF:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Sox_Nation
  4. Patriot Power

    Patriot Power Rookie

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    ...but really didn't come into common usage until the latest owners of the Red Sox started using it as a marketing device.
  5. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Wow! I'm very impressed. Thank you rodrust, excellent information & insight.
  6. rodrust

    rodrust Rookie

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    AGREE 100% and when you say marketing device add "revenue stream" on to that.
  7. questionman

    questionman Rookie

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    Are you talking in general or specifically with the Sox and Pats? I think the whole "nation" thing with a team started with the Raiders and the Radier Nation.
  8. rodrust

    rodrust Rookie

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    Hmmm.. :

    "The Raider Nation is known for its "black hole", a specific section of the McAfee Coliseum (Sections 104, 105, 106, and 107) frequented by the rowdiest and most fervent fans of the Oakland Raiders. The origin of the name is obscure; certainly it was in vogue during the early 1980s, when Raider fans from the San Francisco Bay Area were forced to travel to Los Angeles or elsewhere to watch their team. Today, the Raiders, currently based in Oakland, still have a strong fanbase in Los Angeles."

    REF: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raider_nation
  9. speed

    speed Rookie

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    That was always my impression as well.
  10. scout

    scout Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

    The book "Fenway", is a great book which chronicles the history of the Red Sox. It discusses one of the World Championships around 1912. The owner feared that the Red Sox Nation, wouldn't arrive and take their alloted seated assignments in the outfield, thus sold the seats at the booth (Red Sox Nation did arrive later). I don't have the book, but from what I remember, the writer didn't coin the phrase as it was what those fans were called at that time.
  11. CTPatsFan

    CTPatsFan Rookie

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    Mine too, but as are the Raiders, no longer relevant.
  12. Patjew

    Patjew PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No Jersey Selected

    Wikipedia is a joke. Total garbage.
  13. questionman

    questionman Rookie

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    Yep.

    I tend to agree, but it can be a good guide post, just not fully trusted since anyone can write anything.
  14. rodrust

    rodrust Rookie

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    I can understand the mistrust with wikipedia and surely not going to defend it but it is a good guide post.
  15. Patjew

    Patjew PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No Jersey Selected

    I can agree with that. It's a decent starting point, but then you have to dig deeper if you want the facts.
  16. scout

    scout Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

    Shaunghnessy credits Nathan Cobb coining the phrase, Red Sox Nation. Cobb wrote a column on Oct. 20,1986 pertaining to the border war of Southwestern Ct. between the Sox and Mets.
  17. chris_in_sunnyvale

    chris_in_sunnyvale Rookie

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    I live in Raiders country and their fans bristle when they hear terms like "Red Sox Nation" or "Patriots Nation" because they believe "Raider Nation" came first.

    FWIW.

    Regards,
    Chris
  18. 420jim

    420jim Rookie

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    I also think "Raider Nation" was first. I remember hearing Raider Nation long before I heard of any other "Nation".

    I too agree with those who think Wikipedia is only a starting point and not the final word
  19. scout

    scout Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

    Come to think of it, I think Cherokee Nation may have precluded Raider Nation.
  20. 420jim

    420jim Rookie

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    My memory is a little fuzzy, but isn't it...

    Cheror-kee Peo-ple
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