What's with the Pats inability to stop passes in the 10-20 yard range?

[Snarf]

This has been happening for YEARS now.... you know how it goes.

It's 3rd and 8.... opposing quarterback steps back to pass, and you, as a Pats fan, knows it's going to be complete. Our defense decides NOT to pass rush, and the second you see that you know we're doomed.

The pass usually goes to a tight end, or a receiver on an inside route, usualy just behind the line of scrimmage. Probably to someone who is fairly open.

This isn't a new problem; it seems to me that this has been an issue for YEARS now.

I just don't get it at all. It seems to me that as a defense you should EITHER have solid defense in that area, OR have a killer pass rush. Doing neither (and knowing that you're doing neither) seems like a fatal flaw to me.

Of course, we have taken this all to an even new level this year. I cringe every time I see "3rd and 15" or "3rd and 19" or whatever. It's pretty much a slam dunk that they'll convert. In fact, 3rd and 15 seems to be easier for our opposition to convert than 3rd and 3.

Belichick is a great coach -- undeniable. But this constant talk about him being a "defensive genius" just doesn't make sense to me. A defensive genius would correct for such an obvious flaw, you'd think, after a few years of it burning you.

Just venting....

 

[j00fek]

let me think...hobbs,oneil giving 20-30-40-50yd coushins?

 

[signbabybrady]

let me think...hobbs,oneil giving 20-30-40-50yd coushins?

That is a scheme thing we play a lot of cover 3 so the CB have deep 1/3 responsibilities

 

[tart]

Belichick can be all the genius he wants, but if me, you, and 9 other dudes from this board were on defense I don't think we could stop anyone either. All Belichick can do is maximize the talent he has but there is a certain limit on that. He makes bad players seem better than they actually are, but unfortunately that still isn't very good right now. As far as correcting the 3rd down flaw, everything comes at a cost. To have emphasis in an area, you have to take away emphasis from another area. There is no perfect defense, you are always going to be weak in an area, but the players have to play well enough to compensate for that weakness. I think the reality is no matter what scheme we play, or how good the scheme is, we don't have the players to execute it effectively this year.

 

[Dagg]

Yeah we are great at covering areas but not actually having anyone even close to an actual WR. Gotta love zone, everyone is so busy in there "area" they never actual gaurd a WR.

Sad thing is I heard big ben is the 2nd most blitzed qb behind kurt warner but that warner has a qb rating of over 100 when teams do it. Ben however has a rating 40 pts lower in the 60's so I thought we would bring alot of heat.

We came out blitzing early but then seemed to abandon it not sure why as it was working.

 

[E Belichick Unum]

The problem is the personell on the field. Because Hobbs and O'Neil can't cover the team cannot blitz. Because Hobbs and O'Neil can't play man to man they have to give that 12 yard cussion. The inside LB's aren't blitzing because the safeties are being used to play the pass. Just look at the way we used Rodney in the past. He would be in the middle of the field, watching for the run but playing pass. Because the safeties are being used as DB's the middle zone is open for 8 to as many yards that are needed for a first down. Then you have to consider the age of the LB's. Bruschi and Vrable are in their mid thirties and slowing down noticably. Thomas was really starting to exert himself before the injury, but he looked really slow in the early games also. Because the LB core is comparitively slow, we cannot zone blitz like many teams do, and like we used to in years past.

If you look at this team you can understand why we are having trouble with good teams. The middle zone can't be covered because of run support responsibilities for the inside LB's. We cannot blitz because the CB's are having so much trouble covering anybody. (Also, one thing that bothers me is that the TE isn't getting hit when he comes off of the line. The reason for that is scheme, but when he hit the middle of the zone he is all alone.) The ILB's are good, but Bruschi is getting old and he is slowing down noticably. I do like Mayo and they stole a player in Guyton. Their D line is solid, and I would like to keep it intact for as long as possible, but without the CB's to cover the deep ball, our defense is limited in what it can do.

I know that many here are in love with Ellis Hobbles, but he just isn't a starting CB. Deltha O'Neil is horrible and the fact he is starting doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling about the rookies we brought in. We need to find at least one starting DB, preferrably two.

 

[signbabybrady]

Yeah we are great at covering areas but not actually having anyone even close to an actual WR. Gotta love zone, everyone is so busy in there "area" they never actual gaurd a WR.

Sad thing is I heard big ben is the 2nd most blitzed qb behind kurt warner but that warner has a qb rating of over 100 when teams do it. Ben however has a rating 40 pts lower in the 60's so I thought we would bring alot of heat.

We came out blitzing early but then seemed to abandon it not sure why as it was working.

I havent reviewed the game so I am not sure about how much pressure they were bringing early but I can say that our de was not doing well early. The pic on the first drive was a great play by Vrable initially I thought some pressure caused Big Ben to rush but the replay showed it was a quick screen that was snuffed out by Vrabes the pressure likely was to slow on that play though pressure usually is on quick screens.

Other than that play the defense went on to allow 2 really long drives for points and in that whether vs that offense that was too much especially when our offense wasn't capitalizing on its chances.

I give the De a break in the second half as no one will stop the other team when that many turnovers happen.

 

[Sivy]

I've noticed over the years, both watching and playing football that zone coverage is garbage.

 

[strongside]

This has been happening for YEARS now.... you know how it goes.

It's 3rd and 8.... opposing quarterback steps back to pass, and you, as a Pats fan, knows it's going to be complete. Our defense decides NOT to pass rush, and the second you see that you know we're doomed.

The pass usually goes to a tight end, or a receiver on an inside route, usualy just behind the line of scrimmage. Probably to someone who is fairly open.

This isn't a new problem; it seems to me that this has been an issue for YEARS now.

I just don't get it at all. It seems to me that as a defense you should EITHER have solid defense in that area, OR have a killer pass rush. Doing neither (and knowing that you're doing neither) seems like a fatal flaw to me.

Of course, we have taken this all to an even new level this year. I cringe every time I see "3rd and 15" or "3rd and 19" or whatever. It's pretty much a slam dunk that they'll convert. In fact, 3rd and 15 seems to be easier for our opposition to convert than 3rd and 3.

Belichick is a great coach -- undeniable. But this constant talk about him being a "defensive genius" just doesn't make sense to me. A defensive genius would correct for such an obvious flaw, you'd think, after a few years of it burning you.

Just venting....

Most of those past pats teams were sound tacklers so the dink and dunk did not hurt as much. This crap we are seeing this year is horrible. WR's running free all over the field, corners that cannot cover and have to rely on zones to mask their ineptitude, safeties who are constatently late to arrive, LB's that are in the right spot but dont finish the play off, and no one getting pressure.

Really, when your shopping for your starting corner the weeke before the saeson start what do you expect. When samual/ harrison were here and heathy they only had to mak one side of the field.

 

[BelichickFan]

We need Saban back - Bill, please call your pal and talk about press coverage with your CB. (edit, I know Saban was never here, I meant Bill needs him back).

Seriously, even 2nd and 20 or 3rd and 13 I have non confidence; none. My opinion is we have nothing to lose by being more aggresive because this sh!t ain't working.

 

[tombonneau]

In fact, 3rd and 15 seems to be easier for our opposition to convert than 3rd and 3.

You know your D has a problem when fans are happy on 2nd & 18 that the opponent gets 15 yards to make it 3rd & 3 vs. an incomplete that makes it a "makeable" 3rd & 18. Just sad.

 

[dtbrks]

We need Saban back - Bill, please call your pal and talk about press coverage with your CB. (edit, I know Saban was never here, I meant Bill needs him back).

Seriously, even 2nd and 20 or 3rd and 13 I have non confidence; none. My opinion is we have nothing to lose by being more aggresive because this sh!t ain't working.

Bingo. The scheme the pats are using isn't working anyway. What's the point of the scheme when other teams constantly beat it?

Time for a change, but hey, I am just some guy on the internet and BB knows more about football than I ever will. He must have his reasons but I can't see why sticking to it really helps.

 

[Lifer]

Simple. The Patriots defense is just not that good anymore. The cracks that were revealed in Indianapolis in the AFC Championship game they blew and started to show more and more last year and were revealed again at the end of the Super Bowl have completely blown open this year. I havent felt confident in this defense since that January day in 2007 in Indy and this is not about Belichick, its about talent.
The San Diego game, and the home losses to Miami, the Jets, and Pittsburgh would not have been ANY different had Brady or Cassel or Joe Montana had been the QB.

the defense isnt that good anymore. Time has marched on.

 

[jmt57]

It stems from lack of pressure on the opposing QB. Not completely sure if that's due to the scheme (drop players back to help out a less than stellar secondary, or a player's assignment is to watch for the screen or short middle pass rather than rush the QB) or to lack of talent (certain players not as quick as they used to be), but the result is opposing quarterbacks are going to make a pass given the amount of time they've had to throw the ball this year. With that much time somebody will get open, which results in those third and longs being converted into a first down.

 

[Snarf]

I don't get why we havent focused a lot more on the pass rush... I think the giants showed us last year precisely what a good pass rush can do to a good quarterback....

You'd think we would have learned from the Giants defense and built up our own in the offseason.... yet, it looks like we changed nothing.

 

[ScottishPatriots]

3rd and long is the worst when especially when the announcers are acting like its punt time but you just know its another soul crushing first down coming like when we had the Jets in 3rd and long in OT, that was so obvious our cream cheese secondary was going to give it up.

 

[JR4]

Maybe most of the league has wised up to Billy's tricks. Some where along
the way Bill has decided quick small light weight DBs were better than
physical tough dB's like Law.
Look at the physical nature of the secondary.

Who would you say is Law like?
Who is physical like Otis Smith?
Who is physical like Rodney?
Who is physical like Milloy?

Smart and Tough are no longer words you use to describe the PATs
secondary.

But what's worst is the light weights can't play bump and run because
they knocked off their feet so they end up giving huge cushions.

This change is directly on BB/Pioli.

Solution:
Trade BB and Pioli for 4 #1 draft picks and get Cowher.

 

[CheerforTom]

The symbolic thing about this season is that it will be decided by the defense's inability to stop 3rd and 15 in overtime against the Jets who will likely go on to win the division by a single game.

The bend but don't break has been getting more and more ineffective over the last couple years. They need aggression and swagger like they used to have.

 

[NJPatsfan26]

The symbolic thing about this season is that it will be decided by the defense's inability to stop 3rd and 15 in overtime against the Jets who will likely go on to win the division by a single game.

The bend but don't break has been getting more and more ineffective over the last couple years. They need aggression and swagger like they used to have.

I would imagine this will be a very important offseason discussion and they will correct it.

Of course we as fans have no idea what the coaching staff is thinking and we can only hope they do what is right....

 

[fourthandmiles]

Maybe most of the league has wised up to Billy's tricks. Some where along
the way Bill has decided quick small light weight DBs were better than
physical tough dB's like Law.
Look at the physical nature of the secondary.

Who would you say is Law like?
Who is physical like Otis Smith?
Who is physical like Rodney?
Who is physical like Milloy?

Smart and Tough are no longer words you use to describe the PATs
secondary.

But what's worst is the light weights can't play bump and run because
they knocked off their feet so they end up giving huge cushions.

This change is directly on BB/Pioli.

Solution:
Trade BB and Pioli for 4 #1 draft picks and get Cowher.

That is how we beat Indy everytime is knocking their WR around. Screwing up their timing.