What use is the franchise tag?

[RayClay]

I understand the use of getting compensated but it does seem to becoming a trend of guys holding out. I got a feeling this will be the way the player and agent deal with the so called tag from here on out.

They can hold out and miss an entire season in a short NFL career. In the meantime, some other corners will have their first great season, while teams forget about Asante.

Why would a player want to do that?

 

[minvardar]

He is just complaining in the hopes that a team will come in and pay him alot of money and give the Pats a draft choice. He will never sit out a year of his prime. Losing 7 million dollars is not an option. He can certainly afford to buy a 20 million dollar insurance policy in the case he gets hurt playing under the franchise tag. He will not get paid Clements money while in NE.

Doesn't sound like he wants to give a discount, which of course is up to him. No hard feelings on my end if he chooses to leave. And hey if he accepts the franchise tag and has a great year, we could sign Warren this year and franchise Samuel again next year! If he really wants out then hopefully we can get a couple of second rounders for him or a 1st rounder in 2008. I quite like having 2 picks in the 1st round.

 

[thomas144]

He is just complaining in the hopes that a team will come in and pay him alot of money and give the Pats a draft choice. He will never sit out a year of his prime. Losing 7 million dollars is not an option.

If he sits out for a year does he become a free agent? A year from now he probably can get a much better deal than he is being offered (at least that's the calculation he would be making, based on what other free agent Cornerbacks are getting now vs. what the Patriots are offering him).

It seems to me that if he can sit out a year and become a free agent next year, that refusing to play would be a no-brainer for him, assuming that he can avoid getting killed or some kind of freak injury while staying at home.

 

[thomas144]

They can hold out and miss an entire season in a short NFL career. In the meantime, some other corners will have their first great season, while teams forget about Asante.

Why would a player want to do that?

Maybe he could show other teams a tape of the San Diego playoff game to remind them of how good he was.

 

[minvardar]

If he sits out for a year does he become a free agent? A year from now he probably can get a much better deal than he is being offered (at least that's the calculation he would be making, based on what other free agent Cornerbacks are getting now vs. what the Patriots are offering him).

It seems to me that if he can sit out a year and become a free agent next year, that refusing to play would be a no-brainer for him, assuming that he can avoid getting killed or some kind of freak injury while staying at home.

I guess it is possible to sit out a season but has anyone ever done it before? I can't think of anybody. Really not taking 7 milliion now is just kind of stupid (as opposed to sitting out for a year where you get zero dollars). Like you say there could be a freak injury for example.

I can't know what he is thinking but if I had to place a wager I would say he is fine with accepting the 7 million this year but also trying to see if there is any interest out there in getting more than 7 million this year (if another team will trade to get him). He also might be using the press to get the Pats organization to say something like "If you play for the franchise tag this year and don't whine all year, play hard, and get along with anyone, we won't franchise you next year and you can leave."

I mean it is all pure speculation until something actually happens. I am just a glass half full type of guy.

 

[A.C Vegas]

If he sits out for a year does he become a free agent? A year from now he probably can get a much better deal than he is being offered (at least that's the calculation he would be making, based on what other free agent Cornerbacks are getting now vs. what the Patriots are offering him).

It seems to me that if he can sit out a year and become a free agent next year, that refusing to play would be a no-brainer for him, assuming that he can avoid getting killed or some kind of freak injury while staying at home.

He wouldn't really get a better deal if he sat out

1) teams tend to shy away from players who sit out or hold out (look how long it too Branch to accually get a deal)
2) he'll have not played for a year and some of the other CB will pass by him on the market lowering what teams would pay
3)he'd be considered a malcontent and look what that is doing for Briggs

 

[solman]

If he sits out for a year does he become a free agent? A year from now he probably can get a much better deal than he is being offered (at least that's the calculation he would be making, based on what other free agent Cornerbacks are getting now vs. what the Patriots are offering him).

It seems to me that if he can sit out a year and become a free agent next year, that refusing to play would be a no-brainer for him, assuming that he can avoid getting killed or some kind of freak injury while staying at home.

This may be the most stupid thing I have ever heard. Sitting out a year if could become a free agent is a no brainer? By sitting out a year he not only loses $7.8M, but by spending a year away from football he decreases his market value, potentially substantially.

Even if we pretend that sitting out a year would not decrease his market value (clearly false) and that he would not be eligible for the franchise tag again in 2008 (again clearly false) he would still lose the opportunity to earn $7.8M.

If you had made $2M over the course of your entire career, and had a tatoo that said "get paid", are you seriously telling me that you would voluntarily earn no money for a year, just for the chance of getting more guaranteed money?

Only a player who was certain that he was overrated would even consider such a move.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

He wouldn't really get a better deal if he sat out

1) teams tend to shy away from players who sit out or hold out (look how long it too Branch to accually get a deal)
2) he'll have not played for a year and some of the other CB will pass by him on the market lowering what teams would pay
3)he'd be considered a malcontent and look what that is doing for Briggs

1) 72 hours once he was free to talk to other teams?
2) and that player will get more than Clements and Asante will be looking for just less than he gets - the market demand keeps going up along with the cap, and CB is a position more teams will pay for because the supply of legitimate potential starters, let alone even borderline perceived as potentially elite players, is fairly limited.
2) look what being a malcontent did for TO - twice now. He and guys like Briggs verbally undercut their own market, but for every GM that cares there is another desperate to save his job working for an owner who wants to win now. And he now knows that player wants out which actually strengthens his bargaining position with the existing team.

 

[thomas144]

He wouldn't really get a better deal if he sat out

1) teams tend to shy away from players who sit out or hold out (look how long it too Branch to accually get a deal)
2) he'll have not played for a year and some of the other CB will pass by him on the market lowering what teams would pay
3)he'd be considered a malcontent and look what that is doing for Briggs

1) Deion Branch is evidence that teams do not "shy away from players who sit out of hold out". How long did it take Branch to find a team willing to sign him AND trade a first-round draft pick after the Patriots gave him permission to talk to other teams? A week?
2) or, some team will think "gee, if we just had a cornerback as good as Asante Samuel we would have gone to the Superbowl..."
3) Briggs is a malcontent? What is that doing for him? You don't think most teams in the league wouldn't want him?

 

[thomas144]

If you had made $2M over the course of your entire career, and had a tatoo that said "get paid", are you seriously telling me that you would voluntarily earn no money for a year, just for the chance of getting more guaranteed money?

I have been in an analogous situation - stuck in a job I absolutely hated, not because I needed the salary but because it would vest another chunk of equity. So it's not hard for me to identify with Asante Samuel in this situation. His choice is either to play football for a year for $8M but risk a career-ending injury or stay home and play video games for a year and make $20M.

 

[TomBrady'sGoat]

if asante holds out does he come back after week 10, play his 6 games, and then become a free agent next year if NE doesn't franchise him again at a 20% raise? Isn't that what we're talking about here?

If he sat out all season couldn't NE just tag him again next year at 7.8? I don't know a lot about the franchise tag so I'm wondering aloud here.

i think anyone saying that he'd hurt his value by holding out is blowing things greatly out of proportion. if you have talent someone will pay you to play for them.

besides, asante hasn't had any issues before this and I don't think any opposing front office will hold it against him that he didn't appreciate NE's negotiating tactics. most other teams probably don't like them either. and he has handled this better than most other franchised players do.

as for the theory that his value will go down through inactivity, i think he takes a much greater risk of his value going down by not having a season as good as last years. even if he plays well he is not likely to get as many INTs as he got last year.

 

[solman]

if asante holds out does he come back after week 10, play his 6 games, and then become a free agent next year if NE doesn't franchise him again at a 20% raise? Isn't that what we're talking about here?

If he sat out all season couldn't NE just tag him again next year at 7.8? I don't know a lot about the franchise tag so I'm wondering aloud here.

If a player was actually stupid enough to go this route, he probably would choose not to sign before week 10. Instead, the player would (after week 10) request that an arbitrator find that his hold out caused extreme personal hardship. This is very unlikely to be successful (since the hardship is self-made, and since the player can earn millions of dollars by playing football during the next season), but its a small risk (and distraction) for the team.

In the season after a hold out, the team would no longer be able to use the non-exclusive franchise tag, and the franchise compensation would be reduced to a first round pick and a third round pick.

i think anyone saying that he'd hurt his value by holding out is blowing things greatly out of proportion. if you have talent someone will pay you to play for them.

How do you measure talent? This year Asante is a fifth year player who just had a pro-bowl season. Next year Asante will be a player who had one good season, and is looking to return to the league after an extended absence. Can you name a player who left the league for a year and DIDN'T see his value go way down?

Asante will be employable, just like Ricky Williams is employable. But if he returns after a year absence, he will no longer have an opportunity to get a Nate Clements type of deal.

as for the theory that his value will go down through inactivity, i think he takes a much greater risk of his value going down by not having a season as good as last years. even if he plays well he is not likely to get as many INTs as he got last year.

If Asante is a lousy CB who knows that he will never again have a great year, holding may be a good plan. The value of his next contract may be halved, but he will at least be able to sign for significant guaranteed money (which his new team will immediately regret). But he would have to be a REALLY lousy player for this to make sense since $7.8M is more than half of the guaranteed money he could expect to get in such a scenario.

If Asante is actually this bad a player, a hold out is a good thing for the Patriots, who will save a $7.8M cap hit on a lousy player. We only care about a hold out if Asante is actually a very good player.

If Asante thinks he is a good player he'd be a fool to hold out.

Asante is not a fool.

Asante does not care about principle.

Asante wants to get paid.

This means that Asante will play.

To make the franchise player gambit work, a player has to convince his team that he cares much more about principle than about getting paid. Briggs has done a half way decent job in this regard. If Asante wants to convey this to the Patriots, he should probably start by removing his tatoo.

 

[solman]

I have been in an analogous situation - stuck in a job I absolutely hated, not because I needed the salary but because it would vest another chunk of equity. So it's not hard for me to identify with Asante Samuel in this situation. His choice is either to play football for a year for $8M but risk a career-ending injury or stay home and play video games for a year and make $20M.

Nobody is going to give $20M guaranteed to a CB who had one good year, and then left the league for a year to play video games. But that misses my point.

Asante has never earned big money. He wants to earn and spend big money. If he signs the Franchise tender, he is guaranteed $7.8M. He is set for life, and can immediately begin spending to his heart's content.

If he sits home, he'll have to wait another year before getting all of his goodies. Asante has no chance of convincing anybody that he'd be willing to do this.

 

[thomas144]

Nobody is going to give $20M guaranteed to a CB who had one good year, and then left the league for a year to play video games. But that misses my point.

Asante has never earned big money. He wants to earn and spend big money. If he signs the Franchise tender, he is guaranteed $7.8M. He is set for life, and can immediately begin spending to his heart's content.

If he sits home, he'll have to wait another year before getting all of his goodies. Asante has no chance of convincing anybody that he'd be willing to do this.

Well, he's convinced me, so I guess that blows your entire argument out of the water.

We don't know the actual numbers involved. Maybe the Patriots' offer is really insulting. Maybe they think it's fair, but he thinks it's really insulting. Do you think that possible? Have the Patriots ever had trouble keeping players?

 

[solman]

Well, he's convinced me, so I guess that blows your entire argument out of the water.

We don't know the actual numbers involved. Maybe the Patriots' offer is really insulting. Maybe they think it's fair, but he thinks it's really insulting. Do you think that possible? Have the Patriots ever had trouble keeping players?

1. Convincing you is easy. All a player has to do is spout off to the press. Convincing BB/SP is virtually impossible.

2. It doesn't matter how insulting the Patriot's offer is. Asante wants money. Both he and his agent know that sitting at home will lose him vast quantities of money. As long as the Patriots keep the Franchise tender on the table, Asante is going to sign on.