What Bill Belichick Looks For When Scouting DB's

[PatriotReign]

Some pretty interesting information provided on today's Move the Sticks Podcast (link) regarding what Bill looks for in defensive backs. The segment starts about 27:00 minutes in.

 

[ALP]

i dont know WHAT he looks for, but i know WHERE he should look for them...

and that's on other team's rosters

 

[convertedpatsfan]

i dont know WHAT he looks for, but i know WHERE he should look for them...

and that's on other team's rosters

Everyone misses sometimes in the draft. You could maybe say BB takes more shots at high-risk injury-prone players like Wheatley and Dowling. But D-Mac is great, Dennard, Ryan, Hobbs, Sanders, and Wilhite have been solid contributors over the years, while guys like Butler and Chung partly developed in other places into solid players.

The Legion of Boom is great, and you gotta give credit to Schneider for drafting Sherman and Chancellor in the 5th. Then again, they also drafted Walter Thurmond before Chancellor, and the likes of James Carpenter, John Moffitt, K.J. Wright, and Kris Durham before Sherman. There's a bit of skill to the draft, but there's also quite a bit of luck.

 

[Oswlek]

i dont know WHAT he looks for, but i know WHERE he should look for them...

and that's on other team's rosters

Yeah, same with WRs. He is boss at finding undervalued receiving talent but only has Branch, Givens and Edelman as draft successes.

The funny thing is, Bill's DB history has been trending up for quite some time now. Since 2010 McCourty, Ryan, Dennard are offset by Dowling, Wilson and perhaps Harmon. Even Butler and Chung are better pros than it appeared a few years ago. This isn't going to make Seattle fans worried about BB snatching up all the secondary talent, but it is a far cry from the chasm between 2004-2008. And, even that middling success rate is actually above average when it comes to DBs.

Most fans still view Bill through the lens of Wheatley and Wilhite, but that nadir appears to be comfortably in the past. Hopefully the WR miscues are equally predictive of what's to come.

 

[RayClay]

Great show, thanks.

 

[manxman2601]

Very interesting, thanks. I thought the CB stuff was a little obvious, although the 'need a selfish attitude' point was interesting but the safety stuff was much more interesting, Basically, unless your safety is outstanding in the box, you can rule out safeties that are weak in coverage but good at run defense. The ability to cover TEs and RBs is crucial to a safety in this BB approach.

If you have no objections, I'm going to start a similar thread in the draft forum because there's some obvious relevance there.

 

[patfanken]

Move the Sticks is a consistently interesting podcast over at NFL.com because it comes at you from a different slant than most who just talk talk about game results. predictions, and individuals. Jeremiah talks more about the why's and wherefore's coming from a scout's point of view. Its always a long week between games, this podcast helps fill that time

 

[mayoclinic]

Very interesting, thanks. I thought the CB stuff was a little obvious, although the 'need a selfish attitude' point was interesting but the safety stuff was much more interesting, Basically, unless your safety is outstanding in the box, you can rule out safeties that are weak in coverage but good at run defense. The ability to cover TEs and RBs is crucial to a safety in this BB approach.

If you have no objections, I'm going to start a similar thread in the draft forum because there's some obvious relevance there.

Great idea.

I don't know about what BB looks for. But what I'd look for:

1. Big, physical outside CBs with good press-man skills, good ball location skills, mental toughness, and fundamentally sound technique. Physicality and mental toughness are a must. Pure speed isn't. Draft prototypes: Kyle Fuller, Richard Sherman.

2. Safeties who are good in run and pass, with good vision and recovery time. For a bigger safety who can play more of an enforcer role, they have to have great instincts and football intelligence, and the ability to match up with TEs. Draft prototypes: Earl Thomas/Devin Mccarty for a rangy safety; Jonathan Cyprien for a bigger safety.

3. Slot CBs: good quickness and mobility (3-cone, SS time), physical, strong in run support. Draft prototypes: Brandon Boykin.

 

[manxman2601]

Great idea.

I don't know about what BB looks for. But what I'd look for:

1. Big, physical outside CBs with good press-man skills, good ball location skills, mental toughness, and fundamentally sound technique. Physicality and mental toughness are a must. Pure speed isn't. Draft prototypes: Kyle Fuller, Richard Sherman.

2. Safeties who are good in run and pass, with good vision and recovery time. For a bigger safety who can play more of an enforcer role, they have to have great instincts and football intelligence, and the ability to match up with TEs. Draft prototypes: Earl Thomas/Devin Mccarty for a rangy safety; Jonathan Cyprien for a bigger safety.

3. Slot CBs: good quickness and mobility (3-cone, SS time), physical, strong in run support. Draft prototypes: Brandon Boykin.

i've done this in the draft forum too, but here are the attributes as told to Daniel Jeremiah.

CB

• Defending the pass is the lifeline of a corners game.
• A good CB will always be within an arms length of the receiver
• Has to have the confidence to play on an island
• Cannot go into 'the tank'
• All good corners are selfish and ****y. "Being a Turd" is not always a bad thing.
• There are no humble corners
• Has to have the right outlook on EVERY snap. Cannot get bored. Four plays will determine the outcome of a game.
• Has to have excellent athletic ability and instincts.
• Must have good ball skills downfield. Must be able to locate the ball downfield
• Should be a solid tackler. Gets guys on the ground.
• Plays physical with the wideout. Don't let the wideout get comfortable.
• Small corners with exceptional skills can still play in the NFL. Small corners with only good ball skills get beat.
• A good barometer for a corner is how often does he get his hands on the ball. Not just INTs but break ups too.
• Third corners are starters (bear in mind this was 2004).
• Dropped interceptions are killers.

Safety

• Can dominate from this position. Can't afford to mess up.
• Have to be a smart player
• Takes great angles. Not fooled by play-action
• Cannot win with a dumb safety
• There are no good soft safeties
• Must have good cover skills. Should be able to cover backs and TEs
• A safety that is just average against the pass must be exceptional in the run game.
• Box safeties aren't worth taking anymore.
• Free safeties should be able to cover like a CB
• Safeties should have a background of special teams.

Do not take this as exhaustive. Go listen to the Jeremiah section in the podcast linked too in the opening post for better context.

 

[neuronet]

What is a "box safety"? Someone who plays close?

 

[BTTA]

Thanks manxman.

These lists strike me as an entry point for personnel selection. There will be very few players who meet most of these specs, and they will be drafted at the very beginning.

What would be interesting the thinking and decision making on the trade-offs that must be made on nearly every player that is evaluated. Which characteristics are are more likely to emerge after college, or are more easily coped with when missing? How much risk does one take on a player that has most or all of the characteristics but some other problem? (e.g. injury history, personal behavior, etc.).

 

[manxman2601]

Thanks manxman.

These lists strike me as an entry point for personnel selection. There will be very few players who meet most of these specs, and they will be drafted at the very beginning.

What would be interesting the thinking and decision making on the trade-offs that must be made on nearly every player that is evaluated. Which characteristics are are more likely to emerge after college, or are more easily coped with when missing? How much risk does one take on a player that has most or all of the characteristics but some other problem? (e.g. injury history, personal behavior, etc.).

I think the red flags that take someone off the board would be:

• CB's Cannot go into 'the tank'. They must play hard every down.
• Both CBs and safeties can't be 'soft'. Have to be able to make the tackle and get physical.
• Lack of football intelligence. Safeties taking bad angles for example.

In other words I think football character is key to someone BB drafts. A defensive back lacking either won't get drafted/signed. At least not intentionally.

 

[manxman2601]

What is a "box safety"? Someone who plays close?

Someone who only plays close to the line of scrimmage and within the tackle box. Is rarely used in coverage except some zone.

 

[Kontradiction]

What is a "box safety"? Someone who plays close?

The box is the area on defense within five yards of the LOS and is defined by the offensive tackles. A box safety is someone that lines up within that, almost purely for run support purposes (though they do drop into some zone and, rarely, man to man coverage, as Manx pointed out). It's where the terms "8 in the box" comes from.

"The box" is also a slang term for something else where safety is often recommended, but this is a family message board and no children perusing this forum should go to UrbanDictionary to look it up.

 

[captain stone]

What Bill looks for in a college DB:

Is he from Rutgers?
Is he considered undersized for the position?
Is he being rightly ignored by everybody else in the entire football world?

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

what does he look for? Anything that looks like this