We should aggressively restructure Colvin in the offseason

[solman]

Colvin is a very good player. He's likely worth $5.5M/year when healthy.

But he hasn't been healthy. And while GMs may not sit around saying "Colvin is made of glass", it will hurt his market value.

The Patriots should negotiate an extension with Colvin that costs substantially less than the $5.5M/yr he scheduled to earn in 2008.

If he doesn't, we should look for a new LB in free agency and (provided our depth at LB permits it) cut him on the eve of the 2008 season.

 

[maverick4]

Colvin and Seymour both need to earn their contracts more, they are hurt too often.

 

[bradmahn]

Colvin and Seymour both need to earn their contracts more, they are hurt too often.

This board is absolutely ridiculous right now. You do realize that this weeks game will be the first game Colvin has missed since '03, don't you?

This reactionary nonsense "Colvin needs to be restructured," "Colvin will be easy to replace," "Maroney's a [dud, bust, JAG]," is unbelievable and beyond stupid.

 

[SoonerPatriot]

Colvin is a very good player. He's likely worth $5.5M/year when healthy.

But he hasn't been healthy. And while GMs may not sit around saying "Colvin is made of glass", it will hurt his market value.

The Patriots should negotiate an extension with Colvin that costs substantially less than the $5.5M/yr he scheduled to earn in 2008.

If he doesn't, we should look for a new LB in free agency and (provided our depth at LB permits it) cut him on the eve of the 2008 season.

Colvin was likely headed for a re-structure even before the injury.

 

[mcsully]

Colvin was likely headed for a re-structure even before the injury.

I agree 100% .. If he wants to be back they need to bring that # down big time.. My thinking is if they "restructure him" and cut stallworth, they might have enough $$ to make a push to keep Samuel..

 

[solman]

Colvin and Seymour both need to earn their contracts more, they are hurt too often.

We have no leverage with Seymour.

Seymour's contract is one of those heavily back loaded contracts that I am always ragging on the Colts for giving.

He's probably going to play out his contract with us, then go elsewhere.

Hopefully we will never again cave in response to a threatened hold out.

 

[Jimke]

I agree that we have to restructure Colvin. His cap figure for 2008

is 7.3 mil. He would be the second highest on the team.

 

[solman]

This board is absolutely ridiculous right now. You do realize that this weeks game will be the first game Colvin has missed since '03, don't you?

Colvin has started a total of 39 out of 75 regular season games since he arrived here. He's not being paid the big bucks to ride the bench.

This reactionary nonsense "Colvin needs to be restructured," "Colvin will be easy to replace," "Maroney's a [dud, bust, JAG]," is unbelievable and beyond stupid.

Not paying Colvin $5.5M dollars in 2008 is nonsense? Just how much do you think he is worth in 2008? Most teams don't even have one LB earning that much.

If we cut him on the eve of the 2008 season, he won't be able to earn anywhere near $5.5M. We should use this leverage to renegotiate his deal.

 

[solman]

I agree 100% .. If he wants to be back they need to bring that # down big time.. My thinking is if they "restructure him" and cut stallworth, they might have enough $$ to make a push to keep Samuel..

Samuel isn't going to give us a discount for his services. In fact, he's probably going to sign with a team offering a substantial premium to what he is actually worth (and he is actually worth quite a lot).

It is reasonable to hope that between his affection for the Patriots and the leverage that the Patriots have over him, Colvin will give us a significant discount.

We need to lets folks who are focused on the money (Asante, Branch, Graham, Law, Milloy) walk. Its how we become a better team.

 

[mcbee]

Colvin has started a total of 39 out of 75 regular season games since he arrived here. He's not being paid the big bucks to ride the bench.



Not paying Colvin $5.5M dollars in 2008 is nonsense? Just how much do you think he is worth in 2008? Most teams don't even have one LB earning that much.

If we cut him on the eve of the 2008 season, he won't be able to earn anywhere near $5.5M. We should use this leverage to renegotiate his deal.

Colvin was a 5th round draft choice who ran a 4.8 40.

That's not real fast.

Why can't they draft some guys and teach them what they want? Hiring FA vets and paying them top dollar...you run out of money sooner or later. Colvin was late round...so find someone like him. Thomas was late round too.

I would just cut Colvin, he probably has one of those injuries that will plague him in the future. He also hasn't been willing to take a "pay cut" before. He'll probably want what he averaged before, which was too much.

Time to find some mid round gems and play them.

 

[solman]

I agree that we have to restructure Colvin. His cap figure for 2008

is 7.3 mil. He would be the second highest on the team.

Remember that more than $1.8M of that is dead money. If we cut him now or restructure him later, that money will still hit our cap in 2008.

 

[solman]

Colvin was a 5th round draft choice who ran a 4.8 40.

That's not real fast.

Why can't they draft some guys and teach them what they want? Hiring FA vets and paying them top dollar...you run out of money sooner or later. Colvin was late round...so find someone like him. Thomas was late round too.

I would just cut Colvin, he probably has one of those injuries that will plague him in the future. He also hasn't been willing to take a "pay cut" before. He'll probably want what he averaged before, which was too much.

Time to find some mid round gems and play them.

BB seems to believe that LBs need time to develop.

In BB I trust.

But I would still like to see what Woods can do.

 

[RayClay]

Colvin was a 5th round draft choice who ran a 4.8 40.

That's not real fast.

Why can't they draft some guys and teach them what they want? Hiring FA vets and paying them top dollar...you run out of money sooner or later. Colvin was late round...so find someone like him. Thomas was late round too.

I would just cut Colvin, he probably has one of those injuries that will plague him in the future. He also hasn't been willing to take a "pay cut" before. He'll probably want what he averaged before, which was too much.

Time to find some mid round gems and play them.

4th round.....

 

[Oswlek]

We have no leverage with Seymour.

Seymour's contract is one of those heavily back loaded contracts that I am always ragging on the Colts for giving.

He's probably going to play out his contract with us, then go elsewhere.

Hopefully we will never again cave in response to a threatened hold out.

I don't believe this statement is true. I would agree that NE would find it hard to change his number (Miguel is the best for this one), but IIRC Seymour's contract was actually front-loaded. The reason NE can't do much is that he still has ~$6mm in bonus amortization to deal with for the next two seasons.

A back loaded contract is one that nobody expects to see because the end is ridiculous. Seymour's is perfectly reasonable and will run to the end.

 

[Miguel]

Not paying Colvin $5.5M dollars in 2008 is nonsense? Just how much do you think he is worth in 2008? Most teams don't even have one LB earning that much.

Are you talking about salary or cash received (salary + signing bonus +roster bonus?? There is a big difference.

If we cut him on the eve of the 2008 season, he won't be able to earn anywhere near $5.5M.

Why not??
If he is healthy, he should be able to get $5.5 million in new money.

We should use this leverage to renegotiate his deal.

So, what happens if Colvin gets injured during TC??

 

[Fencer]

This board is absolutely ridiculous right now. You do realize that this weeks game will be the first game Colvin has missed since '03, don't you?

After the AFCC game last year, I must confess I'd forgotten that.

 

[cstjohn17]

I would keep him at his current number, he is a proven player and I may be in the minority but I think he has gotten progressively better and more well rounded. Plus in big games he tends to rise up.

Going into next year our LBs look like:
OLB - Colvin, Woods
ILB - TBD, Alexander
ILB - Thomas, Lua
OLB - Vrabel, TBD
plus a special teamer who is TBD

How many LB spots do we want to fill with players who have inexperience in the system?

Oh yah, our CBs going into next year look like.
RCB - Hobbs, Eddie Jackson
LCB - TBD, Mike Richardson

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Colvin's deal averaged $4M. Probably the only decent OLB you could acquire would want that or more, since for example AD gave us a break at $7M, and they wouldn't know the system. Rosie's entie signing bonus was only $6M - AD got $12M and $20M guaranteed. You don't get to beat sunk cost out of them due to injury...which is why I believe they did a 3 year extension with Seymour (which also allowed them to spread his cap over 4 years)...and you can't restructure a guy with only one year left.

Rosie was having a pretty darn good year for what he actually gets paid. He will likely get extended 3-4 years with his 2008 salary converted to signing bonus and some roster bonus structure or incentives as sweeteners for the out years. If we can keep a veteran OLB familiar with the system on board for $4M AAV per we will be lucky.

And at the end of the day what happens with Rosie will have nothing to do with Asante. They will offer him what they believe is his value to this team, and not a nickle more - even if they have extra cap space. He's not getting Brady or Seymour money period.

 

[aluminum seats]

Colvin's deal averaged $4M. Probably the only decent OLB you could acquire would want that or more, since for example AD gave us a break at $7M, and they wouldn't know the system. Rosie's entie signing bonus was only $6M - AD got $12M and $20M guaranteed. You don't get to beat sunk cost out of them due to injury...which is why I believe they did a 3 year extension with Seymour (which also allowed them to spread his cap over 4 years)...and you can't restructure a guy with only one year left.

Rosie was having a pretty darn good year for what he actually gets paid. He will likely get extended 3-4 years with his 2008 salary converted to signing bonus and some roster bonus structure or incentives as sweeteners for the out years. If we can keep a veteran OLB familiar with the system on board for $4M AAV per we will be lucky.

And at the end of the day what happens with Rosie will have nothing to do with Asante. They will offer him what they believe is his value to this team, and not a nickle more - even if they have extra cap space. He's not getting Brady or Seymour money period.

Pretty much agree with all of this. In one sense, Colvin has never been what the Pats thought/hoped they were getting--the injury derailed him so much. Nevertheless, he has been since then a steady, dependable LB. They're not easy to find........as we're seeing now.

 

[solman]

I don't believe this statement is true. I would agree that NE would find it hard to change his number (Miguel is the best for this one), but IIRC Seymour's contract was actually front-loaded. The reason NE can't do much is that he still has ~$6mm in bonus amortization to deal with for the next two seasons.

A back loaded contract is one that nobody expects to see because the end is ridiculous. Seymour's is perfectly reasonable and will run to the end.

I mean that the CAP HIT is back loaded, not the cash hit.

Back loaded cash hits (which the Colts also have) don't hurt your team. If the player isn't worth the unpaid cash, you cut the player.

Marvin Harrison's $7.6M 2008 salary won't hurt the Colts, because they'll just cut or restructure him.

Marvin Harrison's $11.8M in back loaded cap hits DO hurt the Colts. All $11.8M will hit their cap over the next 1-3 years, but the Colts will receive no future value in exchange for this hit (unless you believe that Marvin is worth MORE than $7.6M in 2008).

I'll be sure to specify that the cap hits are back loaded in the future.


Forgetting about semantics, we both agree on the salient point: Even if Seymour plays far below his cap hits, there is virtually no chance that he will be cut or forcibly restructured before his current deal comes to an end.