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You do not make a call like that on Thomas in a game that close. One that has been a very low penalty game and cause that kind of a swing.

No one got hurt. No fan would have been able to say that thier team deserved the advantage that call created.

So why would it be called.

Unecessary Call!! There are always crazy calls when we and other teams play the Colts.

That call doesn't happen. Pats win most likely.

Call it what it is.

I hope you are kidding. That Thomas hit was pretty blatant. The play was dead, the Colts defender was standing up normally (not like he was standing up quick as hell because he needs to make a play). Thomas took a shot at a guy who was not looking when the play was dead. How blatant do you want it to be? Of course their gonna call the penalty. That hit was idiotic. I mean, I hate the Colts and they have recieved their fare share of calls, but that penalty was because Thomas had his head up his ass.
 
How dare you question Bill? 3 SB's in 7 years. 14 playoff wins.

Sincerely,
MoLewisrocks

Couldn't agree more, Mo.' Everyone's human, chalk one up and move on to the divisional games.
 
Uncharacteristically bad game by BB. Pats beat themselves tonight, plain and simple. One of the most frustrating games I've ever seen this team play. And I hate the damn Colts more than ever.

Agreed. You can't be mistake-free all the time. This game made me want to put my head through the TV. I did NOT like the use of the last TO. He showed zero confidence in his offense and defense. I'm sure BB knows he screwed up. But the Thomas and Gaffney mistakes were also reasons. There's always more than one reason a team loses a game.

I thought the gameplan was excellent. They were doing exactly what they should have been doing with that limited secondary...chewing the clock. Had BB not called that stupid TO that could have been 7, not 3. Unfortunately, the offense needed more TDs and BB needed those TOs. The clock management was really awful.
 
Couldn't agree more, Mo.' Everyone's human, chalk one up and move on to the divisional games.

I don't know if you got the joke- Mo had been particularly tough on me for questioning Bill in the Super Bowl. I just reminded Mo about how stupid he can sound sometimes.
 
I don't know if you got the joke- Mo had been particularly tough on me for questioning Bill in the Super Bowl. I just reminded Mo about how stupid he can sound sometimes.

Yup, everyone's human.
 
The game plan was working brilliantly on offense. Limiting Mannings touches by dominating TOP. Only the defense couldn't back a conservative offense in part because they were essentially handcuffed.

Players make mistakes. The Gaffney whiff was no worse than some of Randy's earlier this season. Thomas likely didn't know the play was over on his late hit penalty.

This one is on Bill, square. Particularly poor game management. Took the legs out from under the offense on 4th and less than a yard - they converted on a play he negated with a needless TO. That play all by itself almost guarantees a 1 point lead down the stretch. Much like those coaches we knock here for icing the kicker only to negate a miss and end up with one right down the pipe on the second try. Third quarter 3rd down conversion Manning had several seconds to find a receiver and we had a perfect shot at blitzing him into the field turf and just said no...

The good news/bad news is they should have won if they hadn't uncharacteristically beat themselves, and the HC even more uncharacteristically had a hand in that.

I could not have summed it up better.
 
Aside from the wildcat and the 3rd and 16 dumpoff to faulk - I have no problems with the offensive gameplan.
 
It was two friggin plays. Otherwise, the offense was methodical and efficient. You cannot blame the OC for one dropped pass and one penalty. If the Pats were missing assignments, having a lot of penalties, not converting third downs, then you can throw it on the OC. A handful of plays are not the OC's fault.

I know you hate the guy. But please don't tread on NEM's ground of irrational hatred where you blame him for everything and credit him for nothing.

Rob - Normally I agree with you, but it wasn't just two plays. There were many play callls last night, particularly in the 1st quarter, that were just bad. Run plays that weren't audibled even though there were 8 and sometimes 9 in the box. The Pats could have used play-action plays and they sure as hell should have sent Moss on some Slants over the middle.

As for the call on Thomas, while it was correct, it was also BS. It was BS because the Colts players were hitting late all game and nothing was called. There was also a chop block on Seymour that wasn't called. What was irritating about that block on Seymour is that it resulted in an Addai run to the outside for like 10 yards...
 
Too many great coaches on this board. Of course, I also did not like his waste of challenge as well as the first timeout charge. Even if it was successful, it was just 5 yard gain.

Other than that, how do people blame playcall? It is very easy to be said about this and that, blah blah blah, after the game. But...
Everyone is talking about the final 'waste' of timeout. I surely believe, at the last moment, that something bad just came up to BB's mind. Yeah, I am superstitious. I did not like BB was wearing non-grey hoody. Getting back to the point, we should have, at least, tied the game. If it ever failed, then no chance to tie the game at that moment. Additionally, the ball came loose before the whistle was blown. Didnt you see that? It was not bad call in that we anyway tied the game.
Mistake happens. It just came at bad moment. Gaffney's drop, and worsely Thomas's unnecessary penalty. But if you are truly into the game, and with the momentum to block defender, he might have not heard the whistle, nor have he realized the play was over from the less than split seconds of seeing that defense stopped playing.
I am just glad this did not happen at the postseason like last season. Yeah, I believe we can make it to the playoff.

The only thing bothered me last night, except for BB's blue hoody, was non-existence of pass rush. Against Manning, and the caliber of their receiving corps, secondary cannot make everything. They do need to pass rush. Even if we had 4 Champ Bailey, it would not have been easy job.

I am glad to see that our young players are stepping up more and more and being developed. Especially secondary, I think they ARE getting better and better. I just hope Wheatley did not get hurt seriously, I believe he broke his wrist though. Merriweather's hit against Wayne during 2pt conversion was very impressive.

I hope we beat next 3 opponents, then we have very good chance to make playoff. We look good, I think.
 
How dare you question Bill? 3 SB's in 7 years. 14 playoff wins.

Sincerely,
MoLewisrocks

The difference between me and either the blind homers or kneejerk bashers is I can rationally discuss/admit when mistakes are make without accusing people of just sucking...

This was not Bill's finest hour. Great game plan, along the same lines as his overall plan to develop Cassel, lousy clock management that had long range ramifications as the rest of the second half unfolded. Ernie had a tough night in the box but since Bill trusts him implicitly that's his problem. The TO was called because Ernie had second thoughts on the spot being closer to a full yard than a foot... Well, given the consequences trusting his offense to make that kind of yardage when they had made it all night was a better bet than tossing their last TO with 11+ to go in exchange for a tying FG. 4th and 1 from the 7...
 
The difference between me and either the blind homers or kneejerk bashers is I can rationally discuss/admit when mistakes are make without accusing people of just sucking...

This was not Bill's finest hour. Great game plan, along the same lines as his overall plan to develop Cassel, lousy clock management that had long range ramifications as the rest of the second half unfolded. Ernie had a tough night in the box but since Bill trusts him implicitly that's his problem. The TO was called because Ernie had second thoughts on the spot being closer to a full yard than a foot... Well, given the consequences trusting his offense to make that kind of yardage when they had made it all night was a better bet than tossing their last TO with 11+ to go in exchange for a tying FG. 4th and 1 from the 7...

Whatever dude. I said that our coordinators needed improvement and Belichick made some mistakes in SB42 and you jumped on me like I was a spoiled fan. Then you go and call out Belichick - HILARIOUS! I'm surprised you aren't out defending BB in full force right now.
 
The game plan was working brilliantly on offense. Limiting Mannings touches by dominating TOP. Only the defense couldn't back a conservative offense in part because they were essentially handcuffed.

Players make mistakes. The Gaffney whiff was no worse than some of Randy's earlier this season. Thomas likely didn't know the play was over on his late hit penalty.
That's why they blow the whistle. Thomas has no excuse here.

This one is on Bill, square. Particularly poor game management. Took the legs out from under the offense on 4th and less than a yard - they converted on a play he negated with a needless TO. That play all by itself almost guarantees a 1 point lead down the stretch. Much like those coaches we knock here for icing the kicker only to negate a miss and end up with one right down the pipe on the second try. Third quarter 3rd down conversion Manning had several seconds to find a receiver and we had a perfect shot at blitzing him into the field turf and just said no...

The good news/bad news is they should have won if they hadn't uncharacteristically beat themselves, and the HC even more uncharacteristically had a hand in that.
I find it hard to disagree with you. I think back to that 4th and long play in the Super Bowl and still wonder why they didn't go for a figgie. Yes, it would have been long and given the ball at the point of the kick if it was missed, but the odds were still better than what they did attempt to do.

I dunno. Bill just sometimes goes weird on us. That said, Indy stalled and ate up some clock on their last possession, but otherwise looked capable of doing what they wanted. My guess is that, if we had that last TD and 4-point lead, that Indy may well have comeback with a TD of their own to win. Perish the thought.
 
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the game plan was working brilliantly on offense. Limiting mannings touches by dominating top. Only the defense couldn't back a conservative offense in part because they were essentially handcuffed.

Players make mistakes. The gaffney whiff was no worse than some of randy's earlier this season. Thomas likely didn't know the play was over on his late hit penalty.

This one is on bill, square. Particularly poor game management. Took the legs out from under the offense on 4th and less than a yard - they converted on a play he negated with a needless to. That play all by itself almost guarantees a 1 point lead down the stretch. Much like those coaches we knock here for icing the kicker only to negate a miss and end up with one right down the pipe on the second try. Third quarter 3rd down conversion manning had several seconds to find a receiver and we had a perfect shot at blitzing him into the field turf and just said no...

The good news/bad news is they should have won if they hadn't uncharacteristically beat themselves, and the hc even more uncharacteristically had a hand in that.

amen exactly
 
The coaches played scared and not the team, thats what i came away with.Not one of the best moments for Mcdaniels and BB.

I got that sense as well. Almost as if they were playing against the undefeated Colts of 2005, not the mediocre Colts of 2008.
 
The coaches played scared and not the team, thats what i came away with.Not one of the best moments for Mcdaniels and BB.
I've always expected the Patriots to try to keep the ball away from Manning but we always come out blazing; I think that's because Belichick was confident Brady could go mano a mano with Manning as needed. I don't think Belichick thought Cassel could win the 35-31 shootout like he does with Brady so he finally played the kind of game I expected all these years. If that's "scared" so be it but I think it's correct too.
 
How can it be right to use a challenge and a potential TO to gain a possible 5 yards?

Agreed. You can't be mistake-free all the time. This game made me want to put my head through the TV. I did NOT like the use of the last TO. He showed zero confidence in his offense and defense. I'm sure BB knows he screwed up. But the Thomas and Gaffney mistakes were also reasons. There's always more than one reason a team loses a game.

I thought the gameplan was excellent. They were doing exactly what they should have been doing with that limited secondary...chewing the clock. Had BB not called that stupid TO that could have been 7, not 3. Unfortunately, the offense needed more TDs and BB needed those TOs. The clock management was really awful.
 
How can it be right to use a challenge and a potential TO to gain a possible 5 yards?

They saw the tape up in the booth and radioed in to BB "Bill, there's a Colt trying to get off the field when the ball is snapped. He's about five yards away from the sidelines; as indisputable as you could wish for. Challenge -- it's a free gift of a first down."

Of course, what no one knew was that this palooka on his way off the field was, in fact, the Colts' eleventh defender. That was the REAL screw-up (or else the most brilliant deception play in the history of the league!)
 
How can it be right to use a challenge and a potential TO to gain a possible 5 yards?

It wasn't 5 yards. It was 1st and 5 vs. 2nd and 9. Downs count too, as does the time you can run off the clock with them.
 
Sure they beat themselves - but as I think most everyone knows this was a very good loss, if there can be such a thing.

Unlike the embarrassing loss to the Dolphins where the team looked completely lost, this team was pretty much playing well in all phases of the game. The few mistakes that were made in this game just so happened to all wind up having a major impact.

I've seen Tom Brady lead Patriots teams both win and lose games played far worse than this one.
 
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