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Vegas Line Makes Me a Little Nervous


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Ok, this is not my area of expertise but I BELIEVE that the home team always gets 3 points so we're actually favored by 4.5.
HFA is estimated to be worth about 3 points, so if the Patriots are the road team and favored by 1.5, that implies they would be favored by about 4.5 in a neutral site or 7.5 if the game was in Foxboro.
 
If it makes you feel any better most sites have them in the 2 - 2.5 range now. I expect it to be around 4 on gameday...
3 is a magic number when it comes to point spreads. I am not surprised the line increased to 2 and 2.5, but I don't see it breaking the 3 point mark. That would be a major shift.
 
Didnt we have this thread last week, and a voice of reason explained that vegas lines have nothing to do with who they think will win... but rather public opinion...

:bricks:

They hit the nail on the head far too often for my liking!
 
HFA is estimated to be worth about 3 points, so if the Patriots are the road team and favored by 1.5, that implies they would be favored by about 4.5 in a neutral site or 7.5 if the game was in Foxboro.

That would be true if HFA was worth 6 points. Its not.
 
That would be true if HFA was worth 6 points. Its not.
HFA is worth 3 points. But when you shift those 3 points from one team to the other, it represents a swing of 6 points. Like I said... suppose on a neutral field the Patriots would be a 4.5 point favorite. Since HFA is worth 3 points for the Jets, the line goes down to 1.5. If the Patriots were the home team, they would be favored by about 7.5. So yes, HFA is worth 3 points but if you shift those 3 points from one team to the other, the net swing is 6 points.

BTW: When I say "HFA is worth 3 points" that is not meant to be an absolute 100% hard and fast rule. It will always depend on any other factor the gambling public deems important. For example, the Patriots' HFA might be a bit higher in January against a domed team than it would, say, in September against a domed team.
 
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Didnt we have this thread last week, and a voice of reason explained that vegas lines have nothing to do with who they think will win... but rather public opinion...

:bricks:

Vegas wants to draw NY/NJ Jet bettors in with points. If the spread comes down, we will know they succeeded.
 
Actually, that's not entirely true. Without going too far off topic w/this, for business purposes I've had to deal with the gaming community for a few years, and there are "trap" lines.
Yeah those are the lines that are set by the alligators that live in the sewers. :rolleyes:
 
HFA is worth 3 points. But when you shift those 3 points from one team to the other, it represents a swing of 6 points. Like I said... suppose on a neutral field the Patriots would be a 4.5 point favorite. Since HFA is worth 3 points for the Jets, the line goes down to 1.5. If the Patriots were the home team, they would be favored by about 7.5. So yes, HFA is worth 3 points but if you shift those 3 points from one team to the other, the net swing is 6 points..

For some reason I was thinking the Jets were getting points, not the other way around.
 
The line is now up a point.....Patriots -2.5

I believe the Kris Jenkins injury has affected the line,also
 
The Jets get an automatic 3 point bump for playing at home, on a neutral field the Pats would be expected to win by 4.5. Seeing as they can't sell out their stadium and alienated a bunch of fans with the PSL nonsense, the effect of being the home team might be lessened.
 
The line really has no direct correlation to who Vegas thinks will win, but more the betting trends. They want as close to a 50/50 spread between the two teams as they can get, because over time that will net them consistent money.



I would put Pats offense as 1a and Jets defense as 1b for now (might change by season's end). They're very close.

This is true to an extent... but the "Line Movers" (worlds greatest sports gamblers) usually dictate where the money leans.
 
The Jets were favored by 1 in the opening line I saw (Sunday morn I believe). We're now 2 or 2.5 point favorites, and it's Wednesday. That's a decent swing, especially if it keeps trending the same way.
 
It's actually quite amazing we are the favored team considering all the pre-season hype and predictions AND there's only been one game into the season to change people's original opinions.

Now to clarify a couple earlier gambling debates (kinda my thing). Assuming Home Field Advantage is 3pts (but could be 2 to 4 depending on team and stadium), then yes you would expect roughly a 6 point (not 3) swing in the line simply by changing venues.

Also yes, Vegas' ultimate goal is to create equal action, but don't be fooled by such simple semantics. The line IS HIGHLY CORRELATED with actual outcomes. On top of the fact that experts create the lines to begin with, it has been proven that collective human intelligence (the force behind line movements) is keenly aware of inefficiencies. This collective accuracy actually increases when financial gain or other such human motivation is involved. Now, throw in the fact that the NFL betting market is highly liquid, and you have a very good idea -the BEST quick and dirty of any type actually- of the true relative strengths of both teams. Now I will agree that sometimes larger/smaller betting team cities, or trending teams will have a slight artificial impact on the line, but we are looking at +/- a point for all but extreme conditions.

Which brings us back to my first statement. Wow, I can't believe we are favored by 1.5pts on the road. It definitely bodes well for how quickly our "rebuilding" team has been rebuilt. Or maybe how bad the Jets are, but most likely a bit of both.
 
Is there a line in terms of this team making a sack?:(
 
Also yes, Vegas' ultimate goal is to create equal action, but don't be fooled by such simple semantics. The line IS HIGHLY CORRELATED with actual outcomes. On top of the fact that experts create the lines to begin with, it has been proven that collective human intelligence (the force behind line movements) is keenly aware of inefficiencies. This collective accuracy actually increases when financial gain or other such human motivation is involved. Now, throw in the fact that the NFL betting market is highly liquid, and you have a very good idea -the BEST quick and dirty of any type actually- of the true relative strengths of both teams.
Sometimes the gambling public hits it right on the nose. There were a half dozen games this past weekend where the final outcome was within 3 points of what the point spread predicted (Min-NO, Mia-Buf, Det-Chi, Cle-TB, AZ-St.Louis, Bal-NYJ). But there were also a few lines that ended up being off by a whole lot. Hou-Ind was off by 13 points. Oak-TN was off by 19. Sea-SF was off by 22.

Overall I would say the gambling public predicts the outcome within 7 points about 2/3rds of the time.
 
iam fine with it. everyone is reacting to 1game. for all the bad play by the jets they lost by 1 pt to a very good defensive team. We are not the same defense as balitmore and iam quite sure the jets wont gives 4-5 1st downs via penalties or by 1 of 11 on 3rd down vs us. LT will be able to run the ball on us and its going to be a very close game inspite of what people here think after monday night that we are going to crush them.

just my opinion

Exactly right. Jets D will rattle Brady, unlike the Bengals.

Should be a very close game, as the line suggests.
 
Exactly right. Jets D will rattle Brady, unlike the Bengals.

Should be a very close game, as the line suggests.

The Rex Ryan Jets didn't rattle him the 2nd time they played him, so why should they rattle him a 3rd time?
 
Didnt we have this thread last week, and a voice of reason explained that vegas lines have nothing to do with who they think will win... but rather public opinion...

:bricks:

I may have or may not have put money on the Pats....The site I would or would not use tells me the betting trend. 90% of the action is on the Patriots. That's why the line has shot up so quickly. It'll probably be close to 5 by gametime. The house wants to pick a number that will attrack a 50/50 split on the action. Unless the Jets win, they'll take a big hit on this game this week.

PS: I may or may not have written this post.
 
It's actually quite amazing we are the favored team considering all the pre-season hype and predictions AND there's only been one game into the season to change people's original opinions.

Now to clarify a couple earlier gambling debates (kinda my thing). Assuming Home Field Advantage is 3pts (but could be 2 to 4 depending on team and stadium), then yes you would expect roughly a 6 point (not 3) swing in the line simply by changing venues.

Also yes, Vegas' ultimate goal is to create equal action, but don't be fooled by such simple semantics. The line IS HIGHLY CORRELATED with actual outcomes. On top of the fact that experts create the lines to begin with, it has been proven that collective human intelligence (the force behind line movements) is keenly aware of inefficiencies. This collective accuracy actually increases when financial gain or other such human motivation is involved. Now, throw in the fact that the NFL betting market is highly liquid, and you have a very good idea -the BEST quick and dirty of any type actually- of the true relative strengths of both teams. Now I will agree that sometimes larger/smaller betting team cities, or trending teams will have a slight artificial impact on the line, but we are looking at +/- a point for all but extreme conditions.

Which brings us back to my first statement. Wow, I can't believe we are favored by 1.5pts on the road. It definitely bodes well for how quickly our "rebuilding" team has been rebuilt. Or maybe how bad the Jets are, but most likely a bit of both.

This is very true, and I'm glad someone clarified exactly what Vegas' role is here. In a perfect world there would be equal betting on both sides, but that rarely happens, and many times the betting is strongly one-sided. That's why usually the point spread reflects not just public perception, but extremely intelligent computer simulations of these games, as well as other factors... for example, last year a famous Vegas odds-maker talked about the unknown factor of Dwight Freeney accounting for 1-1.5 points in the spread, regardless of where the money was coming in.

Vegas is much better off being smarter than every bettor, rather than trying to decipher an irrational wave of public opinion. Their ultimate goal is to find a perfect point spread in which the game is truly 50/50 based on the handicap, where certain unknown variables that are impossible to predict will sway the outcome of the bet. This way it's a coin flip and each bettor should hit 50%, but they have to pay the vig, so Vegas ultimately wins a lot of money. That said, they will adjust the spread if the betting on one side is so very lopsided, in order to hedge their bets, and sometimes that is also because of weekly developments such as injuries or team chemistry.

The line opened at Pats +1, and now it's at Pats -3. You can look at several factors as to why this happened:

-Heavy betting on the Pats (again, this is A factor, but not the only one)
-On Sunday, when the spread opened, Kris Jenkins was probably injured; now he is definitely out for the year
-Darrelle Revis may have a hamstring injury
-Jets media debacle this week, including the sh*t storm on Sanchez, who undoubtedly faces more pressure
-Jets have obviously had some bad practices this week, and Vegas insiders may know something about the locker room atmosphere
-Pats look to be very healthy, and the Fred Taylor injury looks minor now, although it didn't earlier in the week

Anyway, the fact that so many lines move dramatically during the week pretty much disarms the argument that Vegas seeks equal betting. I'm sure they factor that in, but if you look at a lot of the action, you see 80/20 coming in on one team vs. the other. I highly doubt that, if Vegas just studies perception and betting trends, they would be so far off so many times. More than likely, they compromise by setting the actual line, and sometimes slightly adjusting it before its release to brace for uneven betting, but still sticking with their guns with a close-to-perfect coin flip spread.
 
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