Trading up vs Trading down

[upstater1]

If Benn last to the 2nd round, I'd be trading up to get him. I think he is a 1st round selection.
No way Gilyard lasts to round 3

Gilyard will not test well at the combine.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Gilyard will not test well at the combine.

Arnt you the guy who questioned Shonn Greenes speed? lol

 

[TriplecHamp]

What mistake?

Trading down from the Matthews spot directly lead to Darius Butler, Brandon Tate, Julian Edelman and this year's 2nd rounder from Tennessee.

How can you judge that a bust?

As for the Jets, are they so certain they have something in Shonn Greene? He looks slow to me.

That article was bogus to begin with. I mean, the opening line made me shake my head. The Jets are, after all, the team that traded UP for Dwayne Robertson and Vernon Gholston, while the Patriots traded DOWN that same year for the Defensive Rookie of the Year.

This year I want the Patriots to trade down simply because they need more than 4 picks in the first 3 rounds of the deepest draft in a decade. And they have lots of holes and needs, at DE, OLB, ILB, WR and G.

yeah there it is lol

 

[upstater1]

Arnt you the guy who questioned Shonn Greenes speed? lol

Yes, I didn't only question it, but he is slow.

He really is. You're telling me a 45 yard burst when SD was crowding the line convinced you? The kid had a 15 yard head start.

You do realize he tested at a 4.7 40 at the combine, right? I've seen him hauled down numerous times in the Big 10 by college safeties. He is slow. For an NFL running back.

Just like in our game against the Ravens. Our CBs couldn't change direction and haul down Ray Rice, and yet you saw Rice this week hauled down from behind.

 

[upstater1]

yeah there it is lol

And? What are you trying to prove? That Greene is fast? I question how you come up with that off one run.

 

[SanAngeloState]

Both trading up and trading down can work. It depends who you draft. Trading up for BBWK, disaster. Trading down and taking the WR Green Bay took when we took Jackson, good move.

Unfortunately we don't have a 3rd rounder or 5th rounder.

I think we need a change of scheme also, the 3-4 is apparently too hard to man effectively. The defense is so complicated it took Bruschi a year after being BB came here to learn it? Something is wrong with this picture. That's why BB gets vets maybe as rookies can't learn it in time. Unfortunately the vets he gets are old and pretty much useless much of the time.

 

[upstater1]

Both trading up and trading down can work. It depends who you draft. Trading up for BBWK, disaster. Trading down and taking the WR Green Bay took when we took Jackson, good move.

Unfortunately we don't have a 3rd rounder or 5th rounder.

I think we need a change of scheme also, the 3-4 is apparently too hard to man effectively. The defense is so complicated it took Bruschi a year after being BB came here to learn it? Something is wrong with this picture. That's why BB gets vets maybe as rookies can't learn it in time. Unfortunately the vets he gets are old and pretty much useless much of the time.

Vrabel, Colvin, Bobby Hamilton, Rodney Harrison, Junior Seau were all useful.

Monty Beisel and Chad Brown were the only ones I can think of that didn't work out.

 

[TriplecHamp]

And? What are you trying to prove? That Greene is fast? I question how you come up with that off one run.

He did the same thing last week, your telling me that he got no faster than he was in college? Hes got a great first steap and builds up a head of steam propelling him into the endzone, news flash not every running back is going to run a 4.4. You question his speed? 15 yard headstart my ass, he pulled away from that DB. You said something along the lines of "are the Jets so certain they got something in Shonn Greene, looks slow to me." Like only 4.4 backs are good lol cmon, is he a burner? no, is he slow? F*ck no. And he ran a 4.65 not a 4.7. Ray Rice is slow too now? Ray Rice ran a 4.4 but what you have to realize is there is such thing as game speed.

 

[upstater1]

He did the same thing last week, your telling me that he got no faster than he was in college? Hes got a great first steap and builds up a head of steam propelling him into the endzone, news flash not every running back is going to run a 4.4. You question his speed? 15 yard headstart my ass, he pulled away from that DB. You said something along the lines of "are the Jets so certain they got something in Shonn Greene, looks slow to me." Like only 4.4 backs are good lol cmon, is he a burner? no, is he slow? F*ck no. And he ran a 4.65 not a 4.7. Ray Rice is slow too now? Ray Rice ran a 4.4 but what you have to realize is there is such thing as game speed.

Man, you are reading things wrong. I never said Rice was slow. I said Rice was caught from behind this week by Indy. I was comparing his run against the Patriots to Greene's run today. When the defender is running toward the line and Greene bursts through, rubs off a tackle, that defender has to stop and turn and restart. do I think Greene can outrun a Chargers safety? No.

I watched Greene play in High School, by the way, and since I'm a PSU fan, I think the kid is good, but he's no world beater at RB. He's running behind a very good line, and that line also made Thomas Jones into a star. The line reminds me of the Broncos line that made Olandis Gary and Mike Bell into great runners.

I watched Greene a bit this year and any time he needs to make a cut he's slow to the hole. Put him behind our line, and he can't beat out Laurence Maroney.

 

[nickw308810]

3rd round: Austen Lane, DE/OLB, Murray St. - division 2 kid with enormous upside.

Not that it is a big deal, but Murray State is an FCS school and not a DII school. They play in the Ohio Valley Conference.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Man, you are reading things wrong. I never said Rice was slow. I said Rice was caught from behind this week by Indy. I was comparing his run against the Patriots to Greene's run today. When the defender is running toward the line and Greene bursts through, rubs off a tackle, that defender has to stop and turn and restart. do I think Greene can outrun a Chargers safety? No.

I watched Greene play in High School, by the way, and since I'm a PSU fan, I think the kid is good, but he's no world beater at RB. He's running behind a very good line, and that line also made Thomas Jones into a star. The line reminds me of the Broncos line that made Olandis Gary and Mike Bell into great runners.

I watched Greene a bit this year and any time he needs to make a cut he's slow to the hole. Put him behind our line, and he can't beat out Laurence Maroney.

Is he beating a Corner or a safety in a foot race? Probably not but that certainly I dont equate that to being slow. I know you wernt saying Ray Rice is slow I was just fing with ya lol. I dont think Greene is fast but he certainly has the speed to take it in when he has the chance.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Gilyard will not test well at the combine.

Gilyard really disappointed me in the bowl game. The Florida CB's beat him up at the LOS and he did not have the strength or courage to fight through it. Pitiful performance which indicates slot receiver and we already have two of them. Plus guys with chicken legs scare me.

Golden Tate is fast becoming the #1 WR on my board, depending on how he runs.

 

[TriplecHamp]

Gilyard really disappointed me in the bowl game. The Florida CB's beat him up at the LOS and he did not have the strength or courage to fight through it. Pitiful performance which indicates slot receiver and we already have two of them. Plus guys with chicken legs scare me.

Golden Tate is fast becoming the #1 WR on my board, depending on how he runs.

4.4 if hes healthy, im telling you....Jordan Shipley is an austin collie clone with better speed. He would be a great #3 next year I still want a FA though.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

4.4 if hes healthy, im telling you....Jordan Shipley is an austin collie clone with better speed. He would be a great #3 next year I still want a FA though.

Shipley is an intriguing prospect. He looks to run in the 4.5 - 4.6 range, but runs very precise routes and has the Steve Largent ability to always get open. Decent hands and knows how to read a defense. He is also an excellent holder for kickers and I would prefer a WR holding to the punter, but I realize that holding does reduce a WR's reps with the offense in practice and TC.

I hate to say it,but I think he is another slot receiver type. Plus he is something like 26 years old and has had major shoulder surgery that the doctors will need OK, and I think he is trying to start some kind of country music career. BB usually only likes to draft guys that are 100% football crazy.

 

[upstater1]

Gilyard really disappointed me in the bowl game. The Florida CB's beat him up at the LOS and he did not have the strength or courage to fight through it. Pitiful performance which indicates slot receiver and we already have two of them. Plus guys with chicken legs scare me.

Golden Tate is fast becoming the #1 WR on my board, depending on how he runs.

I watched him closely and had the exact opposite reaction. I thought he was the guy that was still fighting hard for Cincy. I saw him making plays out there, especially those bubble screens where he was getting hit hard in the backfield, and still juking and plowing forward for 7 or 8 yard gains.

The kid is a fighter, and as far as leadership at the WR position goes, I bet no other wide receiver in the draft has his strength of character. Living in a beat-up Chevy as a kid will straighten you up quick.

 

[SunnyDenmark]

This threat is becoming very convoluted with topics ranging from RB speed, to Jets news, to draft binkies, and occationally even to the actual topic of draft strategy. Actually, as pointed out earlier, there is a very good existing threat about this topic already:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/13/311014-draft-strategy.html

 

[Ochmed Jones]

I watched him closely and had the exact opposite reaction. I thought he was the guy that was still fighting hard for Cincy. I saw him making plays out there, especially those bubble screens where he was getting hit hard in the backfield, and still juking and plowing forward for 7 or 8 yard gains.

If your #1 WR is reduced to bubble screens, does not that scream that something huge is not right. Six catches for 41 yards from your #1 WR? In this case the fact that he could not get off the LOS against a quality opponent speaks volumes about his strength and courage.

However you are correct, it does not say anything about his character or the size of his heart. I still see nothing more than a slot WR in the NFL.

 

[upstater1]

If your #1 WR is reduced to bubble screens, does not that scream that something huge is not right. Six catches for 41 yards from your #1 WR? In this case the fact that he could not get off the LOS against a quality opponent speaks volumes about his strength and courage.

However you are correct, it does not say anything about his character or the size of his heart. I still see nothing more than a slot WR in the NFL.

I watched him play well all year.

I don't think it speaks volumes at all. The team was ditched by its head coach, and the interim coach spent two days in town the entire previous month as he was hired elsewhere. The team came in unprepared, the QB played awfully and skittishly, the interim OC moved the pocket and rolled the player out to the right multiple times (thereby cutting down the field and ignoring Gilyard's side of the field on the left.

Cincy had 3 good wide receivers, Armon Binn and DJ Woods along with Gilyard. Gilyard is an excellent route runner, has great hands, blocks very well, has a lot of heart. I really think he'll be excellent in the NFL as a #2 receiver. He lacks top end speed.