Trade with Cowboys possible, Pioli in Dallas, Cowboy scout here

[Mike the Brit]

Yet another case of the media's misinformation and fans hyperventilating.

The facts of the situation is that Scott Pioli was simply returning Dallas Parcells after the warranty period. Blown out of proportion.

You mean that American women come with a warranty? Wow!!!

Mind you, it wouldn't be so great for me. I prefer to do all my own servicing.

P.S. But I hear that some of these New England women are very high-maintenance:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2006/08/17/security_scare_ends_at_logan/

 

[Keegs]

Hopefully we trade Branch there. And hopefull it is for Carpenter.

And hopefully i don't get my balls chopped off for saying that.

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

Didn't the Cowboys sign Ollie Hoyte as an UDFA? I know the Pats were looking at him and supposedly he has looked good in Dallas TC.

Wouldn't mind trading a backup OL for him.

Agreed!!!!!

Yes, Hoyte is currently with Dallas.

I'm suprised we didn't get Oliver Hoyte late or immediately after the draft.

IMO, he's a better prospect than Corey Mays or Freddie Roach.

I'd rather have a player with upside like Hoyte than Scott Shanle, who's been in the league for 4 seasons. The last thing we need is another journeyman fill-in.

After 2005, BB/Pioli could have pursued the ILB position more agressively, imo.

http://www.patriots.com/search/index.cfm?ac=searchdetail&pid=16091&pcid=46&special_section=draft2006

Oliver Hoyte, North Carolina State – There really isn’t a middle linebacker in this draft who warrants being selected in round one. So Andy Hart and myself looked at some guys we thought would fit the Patriots system and would be available in the middle rounds. What we discovered is a player who could end up being an absolute steal in this year’s draft.

When we watched Hoyte on tape, we were shocked. I thought I was looking at a first round draft pick. This guy made play after play and not only when we were watching him, but also when we watched other North Carolina State players like Mario Williams and Manny Lawson. Every time we watched tape of a Wolfpack player, Hoyte stood out.

At 250 pounds, Hoyte has the size the Patriots like in their linebackers and he hits like a ton of bricks. He’s not only a big hitter, however, he’s a great tackler. A lot of players can hit (Darnell Bing) but they don’t wrap up and tackle. When Hoyte tackles someone he pops them, wraps up and drives the player back. He’s the best tackler I saw at the linebacker position and that includes Hawk. Hoyte is a very physical player with a mean streak to him. He’s kind of like Rodney Harrison playing linebacker.

Hoyte showed over and over again on tape that he has the ability to shed blocks and make plays. He makes a lot of tackles in the backfield and seems to always be around the ball. Like I said, if you watched the footage of Hoyte that we saw and didn’t know where he was supposed to be drafted, you would think he was projected to go in the first or second round.

The negatives with Hoyte are said to be his speed and the fact that he benefited from playing with a great supporting cast in college but I would debate both arguments. Hoyte proved to me that he’s a football player and a leader on the field.

He may not have blazing speed but he has football smarts that allows him to be in a spot before the play gets there. I think timed speed is overrated when it comes to middle linebackers because they usually play in a short area. Ted Johnson and Tedy Bruschi never had blazing speed but they worked out okay.

As far as playing with a great supporting cast, can’t you say the same thing about Manny Lawson? What about John McCargo? These are first and second round prospects but maybe they excelled in college because they played on the same line as Mario Williams. I think downgrading a guy because he played on a good defense is idiotic. He made a lot of plays on that defense so Hoyte must have had something to do with its success.

Besides, if Hoyte comes to New England, he’ll have a pretty good supporting cast around him here as well. I just think it’s a shallow argument. USC had a great offensive line and another productive back on their team but it’s not hurting Reggie Bush’s draft stock at all. I’m not going to penalize Hoyte because he played on a good college defense with other great players.

There was a report earlier this week that new Patriots defensive coordinator Dean Pees was very impressed with Hoyte when he met with him and that doesn’t surprise me at all. This guy is one of the most underrated prospects in the draft and in my opinion, the best player at his position. His leadership, intelligence on the field, physical style of play and mean streak all make him a great candidate to become a Patriot on draft day.

 

[RayClay]

Are you being facetious or are you deranged? IMO Gorin is, at best, adequate. But even if you think more highly of him than I, "great" is absurd. You're joking, right?

Both........

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

More on Oliver Hoyte...

http://cowboys.beloblog.com/

Posted by: Brian M., Atlanta | August 15, 2006 09:17 PM

Scout swap

Our Todd Archer reports that Scott Pioli, the New England Patriots' vice president of player personnel, was in Oxnard today as part of "scout swap" - a cooperative effort between the Cowboys and Pats. Cowboys chief scout Jeff Ireland was in Patriots' camp.

Posted by Rob Stroope at 7:15 PM (E-mail this entry) | Comments (8)

Comments
I don't see it.....guys like Reche Caldwell, Troy Brown, & Eddie Berlin don't inspire any more confidence than the young guys they already have. Maybe they are looking for O-line help. Hopefully they look at Nick Kaczur or Russ Hochstein.

Posted by: ms | August 15, 2006 07:55 PM

Look, here me out, do u think the reason the Patriots scouting "swap", obviously a old school technique, is somehow involved w/ Hatcher! The player the Patriots oohed ans aahhhed in digust, at the draft because they had him tageted! Maybee him and Shanle in a deal. But for who?

Posted by: Joshua | August 15, 2006 08:06 PM

I wonder if we are looking for a lineman who could double as a long snapper and play special teams? Not much has been made of this position this season because the media is TO crazy, but I can see something being made their.

Or possibly a three team deal.

Posted by: Todd | August 15, 2006 08:53 PM

Please, please tell me Jerry is not going to allow Parcells to bring in a guy like Troy Brown, another one of Parcells' grizzled veterans. While I'd settle for nothing less than Branch from the Pats, Caldwell is a playmaker in the making. Caldwell was a playmaker in the SEC, the NFL of college football, and no reason he could not be one in the NFL, well maybe a few reasons but the talent is there.

Posted by: Brian M., Atlanta | August 15, 2006 09:17 PM

I'll bet the Patriots are looking at Oliver Hoyte; they loved him before the draft, and the team's website predicted they would take him in the draft.

Posted by: Brett | August 15, 2006 09:26 PM

In addition to Wilfork from the Patriots another possiblity is Manuel Wright from the Dolphins -- though Wright is immature from all accounts.

A DT would be good in exchange for linebackers -- which both Miami and New England need.

DT is the only need on defense for this team. All the Boys DT clock in at 300-310. Wilfork or Wright put 30 pounds of beef on the nose to clog and create push.

Posted by: Robert | August 15, 2006 10:12 PM

How about this trade:

Hatcher, Singleton, Hoyte, Burnett for Carlos Rogers and Shaun Rogers of Detroit?

With Millen, anything is possible. Lord knows they need help on D and that is a starting lineback crew in the Motor City.

Posted by: Robert | August 15, 2006 10:20 PM

I would not part with Burnett, or Hoyte. Both look like they have a chance to be good players in the league. Hatcher, and Singleton possibly. I know they are looking for an experienced WR, but could we get Chad Jackson from them? Him and Owens can ride bikes together.

Posted by: Joey from Philly | August 16, 2006 09:47 AM

 

[Jacky Roberts]

The hot rumor in Dallas is Gorin is the guy heading to the Boys for Shanle. Works for me. I'd like to hold on to O'Callaghan.

 

[fgssand]

The hot rumor in Dallas is Gorin is the guy heading to the Boys for Shanle. Works for me. I'd like to hold on to O'Callaghan.

I agree 100% - so much so that I bet we lose O'callaghan. Gorin is just not that good, he is adequate at best. Not that I am overly impressed by Shanle.

 

[BelichickFan]

I'll be surprised if we trade O'Callaghan now that we finally seem to have found a RT with upside. Gorin kind of sucks but he's started a full season or two at a competent, though below average, level. There's value in that to teams.

 

[Remix 6]

it wont be Ryan ..so repeative jeez. BB has no reason to trade O'Callaghan for a decent ILB like Shanle..hes a lot smarter than that

 

[shmessy]

I admit, I know nothing about Hoyte, but I sure am interested now!

Thanks, guys. This is great stuff.

 

[Pats726]

Maybe Hoyte...who knows..funny how BB was a half an hour late and was asked if there was a trade or some news like that..No..but I have to wonder...

 

[Urgent]

On Hoyte:

Yes, the guys at Patriots Football Weekly loved him. That doesn't mean the Patriots did.

The Patriots were unwilling to use a draft pick on him, given their shrieking need for an ILB. They went into this draft needing help at WR, K, and LB, and addressed WR and K. With their depth at OG, they could easily have used the Stevenson pick on Hoyte. But they didn't.

If they didn't use a 2006 draft pick on Hoyte, would they use a future draft pick in a trade for him? Uncertain.

They also didn't sign him as an undrafted rookie. We all thought the Pats would look at Hoyte or Kai Parham as udfa's, but they ended up with Roach.

The Cowboys brought in a new ILB starter in free agency from Jacksonville, Akin Ayodele. They drafted a top ILB in the first round, Bobby Carpenter. They have a good young starter in Bradie James. They have Shanle and Fowler backing up those three. That's five good ILB's right there. Given that, what is the chance that Hoyte actually makes the team? Much less likely. SO, if there is a very good chance that Hoyte is below those five and is released for the practice squad, the Patriots could simply wait and target him then. No compensation to the Cowboys. They can either sell him on the benefits of their practice squad - much better chance of beating out Barry Gardner than Bobby Carpenter, for example. Or, they can put him on their roster if Hoyte opts for the Cowboys practice squad, again with no compensation.

So, if the trade target is Gorin, a former starter wearing Super Bowl rings, a developing young player, extremely inexpensive, the trade should offer more value than Hoyte. I assume either Fowler or Shanle. Fowler may be the better fit.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Huh.

http://www.dallascowboys.com/news.cfm?id=14730B1B-F129-F1B7-5E3BDDD5DFD576A9

Says Parcells is looking for a backup at nose (hope this hasn't been extensively covered already, by the way.)

I just can't imagine what we could expect to get for Sullivan, high past draft position notwithstanding.

As to the trade value of The O'C -- it's high, all right, and that may figure into why he's working out with the first team. It's all conjecture of course, but the Cowboys aren't idiots either. Just like Sullivan, we can only expect to get so much for Gorin. The upside on The O'C is much higher (which is, of course, exactly why we all say "oh no, BB is too smart to trade him.") He's all new and shiny and is impressing in camp and in the preseason -- I'd say keep him, but who knows what's being offered.

Here's the thing: needs on both sides aside, you pretty much get what you pay for. You're not getting a silk purse for a sow's ear. You'll get somebody comparable, like we got for Bethel Johnson. We need another mediocre warm body at camp like I need another hole in my enormous mushroom shaped head.

So in terms of Parcells possibly wanting Sullivan as a backup, again, we won't get much... but if we end up losing someone we're really liking, well, that may be another story entirely.

PFnV

 

[Remix 6]

OC has been rotating in at first line for awhile now. dont think thats reason because hes being scouted..anyways Sullivan would never make it under Parcells..too tough of a coach .. Sullivan needs a coahc who is very relaxed and easy and doesnt care what shape hes in

 

[Brady-To-Branch]

On Hoyte:

So, if the trade target is Gorin, a former starter wearing Super Bowl rings, a developing young player, extremely inexpensive, the trade should offer more value than Hoyte. I assume either Fowler or Shanle. Fowler may be the better fit.

No way will the Pats trade OC. IMO, he'll start on OD.

No way will the Pats trade Kaczur.

Gorin was one of the worst starting tackles in the league in 2005. The Pats couldn't run well to the right side with him there. Many of Brady's pressures can be blamed on Gorin.

When Kaczur returns, Gorin becomes extraneous.

Giving up a player that's likely to be cut is the same as avoiding compensation.

There could be several reasons why the Pats didn't take Hoyte. Bottom line is that Hoyte is doing well in Dallas' 3-4 system in TC, while Roach is struggling.

Here's what ESPN says about Fowler...

Shows adequate recognition skills, gets good depth on drops and times hits well when asked to drop into zone coverage. Looks to deliver the big hit and is a physical open field tackler. However, Fowler's upside is limited by his lack of range and athletic ability. Lacks ideal top-end speed and doesn't excel in pursuit despite effort. Takes too long to recover when forced to change directions quickly, isn't fast enough to run with backs and tight ends downfield and doesn't show great burst coming out of cuts.

About Shanle...

Possesses good top-end speed and shows adequate range. Uses hands to protect body, can get through traffic quickly and makes plays in pursuit. Breaks down in space, wraps upon contact and is a reliable open field tackler. Plays with a non-stop motor and can cover kicks. However, Shanle is far more effective filling against the run than he is dropping into coverage and he doesn't have much upside. Lacks ideal lateral mobility, doesn't explode out of cuts and lacks the man-to-man cover skills to match up with most backs as well as tight ends. Lacks ideal bulk, offensive linemen will have some success engulfing him at the point of attack and is vulnerable to wearing down when teams consistently run at him.

 

[I'm Ron Borges?]

On Hoyte:

Yes, the guys at Patriots Football Weekly loved him. That doesn't mean the Patriots did.

The Patriots were unwilling to use a draft pick on him, given their shrieking need for an ILB. They went into this draft needing help at WR, K, and LB, and addressed WR and K. With their depth at OG, they could easily have used the Stevenson pick on Hoyte. But they didn't.

If they didn't use a 2006 draft pick on Hoyte, would they use a future draft pick in a trade for him? Uncertain.

They also didn't sign him as an undrafted rookie. We all thought the Pats would look at Hoyte or Kai Parham as udfa's, but they ended up with Roach.

The Cowboys brought in a new ILB starter in free agency from Jacksonville, Akin Ayodele. They drafted a top ILB in the first round, Bobby Carpenter. They have a good young starter in Bradie James. They have Shanle and Fowler backing up those three. That's five good ILB's right there. Given that, what is the chance that Hoyte actually makes the team? Much less likely. SO, if there is a very good chance that Hoyte is below those five and is released for the practice squad, the Patriots could simply wait and target him then. No compensation to the Cowboys. They can either sell him on the benefits of their practice squad - much better chance of beating out Barry Gardner than Bobby Carpenter, for example. Or, they can put him on their roster if Hoyte opts for the Cowboys practice squad, again with no compensation.

So, if the trade target is Gorin, a former starter wearing Super Bowl rings, a developing young player, extremely inexpensive, the trade should offer more value than Hoyte. I assume either Fowler or Shanle. Fowler may be the better fit.

True but the Eagles did trade for undrafted free agent Hank Baskett and he's doing well there, so it does happen. Also, they may be scouting Hoyte, and others, in case they are placed on the practice squad or released. So it may not be for a trade but for a future transaction. Just a thought.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Is Scott Futigita (may be misspelled) still on the Dallas roster??? I think he played LB for Dallas last year.

Since we are collecting ex-KC defenders, who can't cover or tackle, it would make sense to trade for this guy.

 

[PatsSox363804]

Is Scott Futigita (may be misspelled) still on the Dallas roster??? I think he played LB for Dallas last year.

Since we are collecting ex-KC defenders, who can't cover or tackle, it would make sense to trade for this guy.

Fujita? No he's a Saint

 

[pats1]

The Cowboys traded a 2007 pick to Denver for WR Charlie Adams today.

 

[captain stone]

The Cowboys traded a 2007 pick to Denver for WR Charlie Adams today.

Perhaps this trade might narrow Dallas' focus to the OL, although Charlie Adams is no problem solver by any stretch.

If I were the FO, and was offered Shanle or Fowler for Gorin, I would try to hold out for at least a 6th round pick plus the LB. These two have basically no upside - what you see is what you get. That said, however, either one would automatically become our #3 ILB, behind Bruschi and Vrabel, ahead of Gardner and Beisel.
I doubt the pats are looking at Hoyte, who does have upside, simply because they are probably seeking more experienced help. Besides, they already have a player, in Roach, in a similar situation. Roach vs. Hoyte vs. Kai Parham: only time will tell.

Of course, the Seau matter could make all of this a moot point...