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Tough piece on Mangini in today's NYT by Selena Roberts

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PatsFanSince74, Aug 9, 2006.

  1. PatsFanSince74

    PatsFanSince74 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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  2. Brady'sButtBoy

    Brady'sButtBoy 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    #12 Jersey

    This is a a subscriber only article. Any chance you could cut and paste a little more of the article here (this is cool as long as you don't copy the entire article), the tease is too much to bear...:D
     
  3. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Wow...the crux of the article is that Mangini is trying to act like Belichick in all of his no comment--no info--no emotion--no sleep--no mercy style, but that's something you can only get away with once you've established yourself. As a rookie head coach he's simply giving himself extra burdens, alienating his players and running himself into the ground.

    Very, very harsh piece. I'm curious what the reaction is on Jets boards.
     
  4. SVN

    SVN Hall of Fame Poster

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    this person could be ron borges version of the new york times .some reporter has to write something -ve to get attention and be "different"
     
  5. BradfordPatsFan

    BradfordPatsFan In the Starting Line-Up

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    If you read The Education of a Coach, it sounds like EM is making a few of the same mistakes that BB made in his early years in Cleveland. He is trying to be who he seperated himself from (BB-BP, EM-BB) and as you stated Patchick, it won't work without some sort of cache.
     
  6. Brownfan80

    Brownfan80 In the Starting Line-Up

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    It's tough when the media is turning on you before you've even coached your first pre-season game. I knew it'd be hard in NY for EM, but I never thought that anyone would complain that EM was acting too much like BB, I thought that's why they wanted him! To get their own Bill Belichick!
     
  7. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeah Bradford, a mistake in a way... but in another way, one of the constants will be the kind of guys BB surrounded himself with, the non-stop guys who see kids playing tic tac toe and get a compulsion to run to the chalkboard (or computer,) and break down film like the rest of us obsess over porno MPGs. Wait did I write that or just think it... well you get the picture. BB wasn't the first to be the Total Football Nerd but he ushered in a new respect for the breed... how many people now think the Great Motivator model (a la Parcells) is the way to go?

    Tough act to follow though, I'll give you that... and he still has to find his Ernie Adams.

    PFnV
     
  8. PromisedLand

    PromisedLand Virtual Internet Person

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    Could somebody please post some more excerpts from the article? I feel like a blind man at a mime convention, reading this discussion.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2006
  9. BradfordPatsFan

    BradfordPatsFan In the Starting Line-Up

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    Exactly. I did not mean that it was a mistake for him to be a football nerd and surround himself with those like him. That is a smart thing for him. However in his relationship with the media, he has to find what works for him in his situation, not what worked for BB in New England. That is the mistake I was refering to.
     
  10. T-ShirtDynasty

    T-ShirtDynasty Moderator

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  11. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

  12. Hoodie

    Hoodie Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Isn't a BB clone EXACTLY what the NYJ wanted when they hired Eric? The media wanted him too despite his youth. So now they've got him and all they can do is complain that Eric made the team practice in stifling heat.

    Careful what you wish for.
     
  13. T-ShirtDynasty

    T-ShirtDynasty Moderator

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    Thank you. Never let it be said that I'm above taking advatage of someone else breaking the law. :p
     
  14. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Seems to me that Mangini is damned if he do and damned if he don't - so he might as well be damned if he do, by being a harda$$ed coach who doesn't give a sh1t if the players like him or not.

    Respect is a different matter - and as far as respect goes, winning takes care of a whole lot of that.

    Basically Mangini's got a complete free pass this year as the team needs to be rebuilt - doesn't matter if they go 2-14. Next year he needs to show some significant improvement - but getting to 6-10 might be considered a success if the team is buying into his program.

    Things might need to get worse before they get better in NYC - if I were Mangini and had to deal with any attitude problems I might be willing to make a "example" cut of someone even if it results in some harsh cap consequences. Its more important that the players recognize that HE's the HC of the NYJs and that HE can send them packing - at the end of camp no less when they have no leverage - if THEY aren't willing particpants in his program.

    The fact that there's some backlash from the media on his tight hold on information - and any backlash from players who feel he's being too tough - tells me that he's doing things exactly as he should.

    Pete Carrol might have been great for media access and quotes - but as far as a head coach in NY (and New England for that matter) he was awful. There's very few teams in the NFL that I think do well with a so-called "players coach" these days.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2006
  15. Brownfan80

    Brownfan80 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Right.. if EM was going easier on his players, it'd be "While EM slacks the pace, Belichick has the Patriots on two-a-days no matter what the temp! Didn't Mangini learn ANYTHING from being under BB?"

    Much like certain media members in the NE camp, it seems like there are negative reporters in NY (surprise!) that will report a bad spin no matter which way the cookie lands.
     
  16. PromisedLand

    PromisedLand Virtual Internet Person

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    Yes, very diplomatic, and yet completely effective! Thank you T-Shirt, for revealing the contents of the mysterious NY Times article, and for reminding us that sometimes the best way to get through an obstacle is to go around it!

    Now that my blinders have been removed, I can add my comments to those already made in this thread. Not that I have much to add to what's already been well said. Only two points:

    1. Can anyone really be surprised that the wolf pack New York media is already attacking EM, when he fails to be as cooperative is his personable predecessor, Herm Edwards? It's only BB's fantastic record of success which has the New England writers at bay, and even then only barely (witness the dialog between BB and Alan Greenberg which occured this very a.m.) The point of the article is actually valid, if slightly spun:

    "You need to be very popular with the fans to get away with dissing the media. We'd rip BB a new one too, if we thought we could get away with it."

    2. A nice aside was the complimentary aside to BB, with nary a hint of bitterness concerning his 2000 resignation as HC of the NYJ:

    "Impervious coaches of intellectual superiority aren’t born; they’re carved from Super Bowl titles. Coaches lauded for their callous monarchies don’t materialize; they’re formed from fabled winning seasons."
     
  17. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Coles' quote that he's never been through anything like Mangini's training camp is pretty funny. There's nothing wrong with Mangini emulating BB as long as he sells it as being genuine with a touch of his own personality thrown in. If he's just trying to be a copycat BB and act like a jerk just because he thinks that's how you get results, he's in for trouble. I was thinking, Jets and Chiefs players must be feeling pretty weird with the contrast in coaching styles. I'll bet the Jets miss Herm like crazy, while the Chiefs feel like they're on vacation with Vermeil gone. The NFL Channel camp tour stopped at Chiefs camp yesterday; Herm really is loosey goosey.
     
  18. PatsFanSince74

    PatsFanSince74 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My sincere apologies to the Board and my thanks to T-Shirt Dynasty for posting the link to the Jets board. I didn't realize the link I posted to The Times was a "subscriber only" link.

    In response to another poster's comment: Selena Roberts has a regular column on the Times' Sports Pages and seems pretty even-handed in what she has to say, so Mangini must be making a lot of rookie mistakes on the job, as the article is brutal (see excerpt below). This article isn't tabloid ranting by The Daily News or the Post (as much as I enjoy reading those rants!), but an "Above the Fold" piece on the front page of the NYT Sports Section, so Mangini will ignore it at his peril if he doesn't want to have a looooooooong season with the NY media. I've attached my favorite quote below, hopefully brief enough not to offend the copyright police:


    “Am I supposed to say anything?” Laveranues Coles said, joking, when asked yesterday how his body was feeling during Camp Mangini. “Is this one of those questions where I’m supposed to say, ‘Go ask coach’?”

    "Ask Mangini, and he’ll channel Belichick in an impersonation of his Mensa mentor from New England, in an ideology borrowed from the beautiful mind under the hooded sweatshirt.

    "One problem: Mangini has to earn his hoodie. Impervious coaches of intellectual superiority aren’t born; they’re carved from Super Bowl titles. Coaches lauded for their callous monarchies don’t materialize; they’re formed from fabled winning seasons."

    (From "No Applause for Mangini's Belichick Act," by Selena Roberts, The New York Times, August 9, 2006, Page D1)

    Ouch! Not just brutal, but also well-written.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2006
  19. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    For the record, one isn't supposed to post full text of member only sites like they did on the Jetsboard either, lest Ian have to take heat for it. Unlikely he'd get in big trouble but it is a rule of the board.

    Its easy enough to circumvent the need to register for these sites anyways by going to BugMeNot whenever you need login info

    http://www.bugmenot.com/
     
  20. PromisedLand

    PromisedLand Virtual Internet Person

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    In my experience bugmenot usually works only for free sites, not pay subscription sites.
     

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