Tough piece on Mangini in today's NYT by Selena Roberts

[patchick]

Please accept my apology for having helped steer this topic so far OT.

Maybe we can wrap back with this...as "adventurous" as the Times' political reporting may be, their sports section is usually pretty conservative and vanilla. The Selena Roberts piece was a wild, glaring exception, which makes it that much more interesting.

 

[mcbee]

Maybe it's not that crazy. Maybe his players already hate the guy and think he's crazy, but she didn't want to quote them.

 

[ilduce06410]

Yes, very diplomatic, and yet completely effective! Thank you T-Shirt, for revealing the contents of the mysterious NY Times article, and for reminding us that sometimes the best way to get through an obstacle is to go around it!

Now that my blinders have been removed, I can add my comments to those already made in this thread. Not that I have much to add to what's already been well said. Only two points:

1. Can anyone really be surprised that the wolf pack New York media is already attacking EM, when he fails to be as cooperative is his personable predecessor, Herm Edwards? It's only BB's fantastic record of success which has the New England writers at bay, and even then only barely (witness the dialog between BB and Alan Greenberg which occured this very a.m.) The point of the article is actually valid, if slightly spun:

"You need to be very popular with the fans to get away with dissing the media. We'd rip BB a new one too, if we thought we could get away with it."

2. A nice aside was the complimentary aside to BB, with nary a hint of bitterness concerning his 2000 resignation as HC of the NYJ:

"Impervious coaches of intellectual superiority aren’t born; they’re carved from Super Bowl titles. Coaches lauded for their callous monarchies don’t materialize; they’re formed from fabled winning seasons."

The New York media are incredible. They're in the midst of deconstucting A-Rod right now. "his BP with men on base is only about .270. he's not a clutch hitter" and "he ws MVP last year, but he still looks uncomfortable". "He's narcissistic". "Cares more about how he looks than about how he plays".
this is a guy who accepted a change in position, conceded to jeter, no drama. was willing to take a cut in pay to come here. if he becomes available, i'd have to let manny go for a-rod, no quiestion. and i looove manny.
da fans just about boo the guy when he comes to bat. they may actually move him if there's an opportunity.

 

[Jacky Roberts]

Mangini has no chance to succeed in NY. He took that job about 3 years early. I can see him getting fired, returning as a coordinator, leaving again for another HC job and finally succeeding. He is far too green and far too arrogant to succeed right now.

He's trying to be a tough guy while replacing a player coach in Herm, has no roster, and is coaching in New York. Recipe for disaster.

 

[patchick]

Mangini has no chance to succeed in NY. He took that job about 3 years early. I can see him getting fired, returning as a coordinator, leaving again for another HC job and finally succeeding.

I completely agree...but that doesn't necessarily mean he made a mistake taking the job. By getting his "Cleveland" out of the way so early he pockets a couple of $million extra, becomes a known national commodity, and ends up with his second chance--lessons learned--by the time he hits 40. It's a decent plan, providing he can live through it.

 

[ilduce06410]

The New York Piranahs

Now that my blinders have been removed, I can add my comments to those already made in this thread. Not that I have much to add to what's already been well said. Only two points:
1. Can anyone really be surprised that the wolf pack New York media is already attacking EM, when he fails to be as cooperative is his personable predecessor, Herm Edwards? It's only BB's fantastic record of success which has the New England writers at bay, and even then only barely (witness the dialog between BB and Alan Greenberg which occured this very a.m.) The point of the article is actually valid, if slightly spun:

"You need to be very popular with the fans to get away with dissing the media. We'd rip BB a new one too, if we thought we could get away with it."
2. A nice aside was the complimentary aside to BB, with nary a hint of bitterness concerning his 2000 resignation as HC of the NYJ:
"Impervious coaches of intellectual superiority aren’t born; they’re carved from Super Bowl titles. Coaches lauded for their callous monarchies don’t materialize; they’re formed from fabled winning seasons."

Promoiised Land, the Noo Yawk media ar5e astounding. They're all over A-Rod's ***** rite now, about how he's not the player they want. Doesn't handle the pressure well, narcisstic. "Yeah, he did win the MVP last year, BUT.........". and "Hey Look, da guy's batting percentage w/men on base is only about .270, and we need better dan dat."
it's bad, they're gonna give the guy a complex. won't be the first time.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

I respectfully disagree. I think this article is a gross affront to the English language.

Read this paragraph:

"The last personable character in the Jets building exited at the end of last season, when Herman Edwards plunged to the organizational level of dysfunction and deception upon his awkward departure for Kansas City."

This is a truly terrible sentence. Apart from its intrinsic ugliness, it makes no good sense. How can Herman Edwards "plunge" to an "organizational level" -- what is an "organizatonal level" when it's at home (I would have thought it was the level that you were at in an organization - say, under-assistant to the West Coast promo man)? The sentence embodies the worst combination of pretentious striving after effect with the failure to express a precise thought.

The author then goes on to confuse "progeny" with "protege". She is using the word to show off and that angers me: if you don't know the meaning of complicated words, stick to simple ones!

(This reply is OT for those of you who want to ignore it.)

First of all, to paraphrase (or "quote," depending on your opinion regarding the exact content of the original statement) someone from your side of the pond, "This is the sort of pedantry up with which I shall not put."

And, if you want to engage in a little "Oxbridge vs. Harvard," bring it on.

The author's use of "progeny" in this context is completely appropriate. The word can refer to a student as the ideological offspring of a teacher as well as to biological offspring, suggesting that the author does know the meaning of complicated words.

Her use of "organizational level," in the selected context, while not pleasant to my ear, is also proper, as the core definition of the word is "of or related to an organization." Her sentence implies that an organization can operate at a level that is characterized by "dysfunction and deception," just as, presumably, it can operate at a level characterized by "efficiency and honesty."

And, to my knowledge (though I don't have an OED at hand), "under-assistant," is not a hyphenated word in any dictionary of the English language. The proper use is "under assistant," perhaps captialized to indicate a title of some sort. This is not a complicated word.

I would suggest that any "pretentious striving after effect," in this case, is a transgression that would more appropriately be applied to the author of the phrase than to the author of this article.

 

[PromisedLand]

Re: The New York Piranahs

"we need better dan dat."

New York Times, $1 (?)
Toll for the George Washington Bridge, $6
Quotin a New York reporter wid a Brooklyn/Sopranos accent, priceless.

 

[mikey]

Re: The New York Piranahs

New York Times, $1 (?)
Toll for the George Washington Bridge, $6
Quotin a New York reporter wid a Brooklyn/Sopranos accent, priceless.

It's $4 with EZPASS.


.

 

[Mike the Brit]

Ot

(This reply is OT for those of you who want to ignore it.)

First of all, to paraphrase (or "quote," depending on your opinion regarding the exact content of the original statement) someone from your side of the pond, "This is the sort of pedantry up with which I shall not put."


And, if you want to engage in a little "Oxbridge vs. Harvard," bring it on. That's one battle I'll not get into.

The author's use of "progeny" in this context is completely appropriate. The word can refer to a student as the ideological offspring of a teacher as well as to biological offspring, suggesting that the author does know the meaning of complicated words.
I know a metaphor when I see one -- but I'd be astonished if the author realized that she was inadvertently employing it. I mean, this lady talks about Mangini betraying a "schematic secret" (which is, of course, not, contrary to what she supposes, a secret about a scheme) and accuses him of "audible rationing" when she clearly means rationing the amount that can be heard rather than rationing that can be heard (weird idea!).

Her use of "organizational level," in the selected context, while not pleasant to my ear, is also proper, as the core definition of the word is "of or related to an organization." Her sentence implies that an organization can operate at a level that is characterized by "dysfunction and deception," just as, presumably, it can operate at a level characterized by "efficiency and honesty."
Yes (being very generous) I suppose so. But how can Herman Edwards do that?

And, to my knowledge (though I don't have an OED at hand), "under-assistant," is not a hyphenated word in any dictionary of the English language. The proper use is "under assistant," perhaps captialized to indicate a title of some sort. This is not a complicated word.
I believe it's an Americanism. In the UK we hyphenate complex words formed with prepositions.

I would suggest that any "pretentious striving after effect," in this case, is a transgression that would more appropriately be applied to the author of the phrase than to the author of this article.
If you don't like the phrase, I know a good American word that meets the case: "sophomoric".

..........

 

[PATSNUTme]

Thank you. Never let it be said that I'm above taking advatage of someone else breaking the law.

If you are going to give us JI, please forward any post or threads by Frank Moga III.

We have our jewels here, but nothing like Franklin Moga III.

 

[njpatsfan]

njpatsfan,


What part of New Jersey are you from?


.

I currently live down the shore in Ocean county.

R

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Maybe it's not that crazy. Maybe his players already hate the guy and think he's crazy, but she didn't want to quote them.

This team hates their coach.

Man, that Mangini didn't miss one single class..

PFnV