Tough Decision Coming Up For Patriots Between Mallett, Hoyer

[MoLewisrocks]

I gave Hoyer the benefit of the doubt and had my reservations about Mallett, but looking at the body of work we've seen this preseason - which overall wasn't earthshattering - my thoughts were they may just opt to move on from Hoyer and grab someone for the PS. They need the roster spot, and I just don't feel like under the circumstances Hoyer has done enough to stay. The worst part is he didn't even play well enough to give them value in a trade at this point (maybe a 6th or 7th?). It's just disappointing.

If you look at the passing charts I posted, they're more or less dead even. They drafted Mallett with the plan of him being here for the long haul anyway, so it wouldn't surprise me if that starts now. Let's face it, if Brady goes down and Mallett does too, things will have had to go pretty wrong and we'll have bigger things to worry about

I think where you go off the rails (after recently being talked into it apparently) is in assuming they drafted Mallett for the long haul... They drafted Mallett because they could (although Deus would disagree that they should have and might have a point though I get why they did). He fell in their lap in a place where they didn't see anything approaching value including in trade which apparently was non existent. So much like with KOC two years earlier they took a flyer on a developmental player they might be able to flip. And it's a hard thing for this organization to do because they won't sacrifice their principles (scheme or system) to create a phony market as some HC's will and this offense requires a particular difficult to measure skillset to run efficiently.

Quit looking at the charts and stats from one pre season. Unless you want to cut Brady too. A lot more goes into these decisions than that. KOC and Gutz were fan favorites in 2008 because they moved the chains... Just couldn't do it within the confines of the scheme. Mallett will still have to compete and certainly have to continue to improve next season or he won't be a lock to even remain as a backup.

Unless Bill has lost his marbles, Hoyer didn't have to hold Mallett off. Mallett had to clearly pass him. If Brady goes down I'm not worried about Mallett then going down so much as going in...

Brady is due an extension next season. Once it's signed they won't be extending any other QB's, they'll be back to developing backups who show potential to start within this system. One of them may hit at the right time. If not, then they will have to consider other options including possibly changing the system and the kind of talent they scout for it.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I wasn't a supporter of the Mallett pick when it happened (I thought there were wiser ways to spend that pick, and still do) but I have been a supporter of Mallett throughout the offseason. I highlighted the possibility that he could have been possibly drafted to be Brady's eventual replacement, but that he had some extensive work to do beforehand. That extensive work, in his second year, still doesn't look like it's been done. He's still relying way too much on his God-given physical tools and not enough on his brain. His decision making is lacking and his accuracy is sometimes woefully off on throws. The decision making is something he needs to fix on his own, and it may never happen. The off accuracy is due to his mechanics from what I can see. Often times, and especially with pressure in his face, Mallett has a tendency to not step all the way into his throws and instead becomes a statue in the pocket. The result has been some bad passes, many of which are typically behind the receiver on slants and crossing routes.

Either way, though, neither guy has looked particularly good. If Brady went down this year (God forbid), we would once again benefit from what looks to be an easy schedule the way we did in 2008 having to play the NFC West and AFC South for our out of division games. But let's hope it doesn't come to that because I've seen quite a few things from Hoyer that give me pause as well.

The ones with the most god given talents tend to be the same ones who struggle the most with refining or adapting them. While the guys who are driven to make the most of what they were given have always had to so it comes more naturally to them. It's human nature to trust what got you this far. Just doesn't always continue to pan out in this game at the next level. Mallett will always have to fight his natural tendancy to be himself and trust his arm. Few QB's get by on that, let alone here. Same can be said for the scramblers.

 

[Ian]

I think where you go off the rails (after recently being talked into it apparently) is in assuming they drafted Mallett for the long haul... They drafted Mallett because they could (although Deus would disagree that they should have and might have a point though I get why they did). He fell in their lap in a place where they didn't see anything approaching value including in trade which apparently was non existent. So much like with KOC two years earlier they took a flyer on a developmental player they might be able to flip. And it's a hard thing for this organization to do because they won't sacrifice their principles (scheme or system) to create a phony market as some HC's will and this offense requires a particular difficult to measure skillset to run efficiently.

Quit looking at the charts and stats from one pre season. Unless you want to cut Brady too. A lot more goes into these decisions than that. KOC and Gutz were fan favorites in 2008 because they moved the chains... Just couldn't do it within the confines of the scheme. Mallett will still have to compete and certainly have to continue to improve next season or he won't be a lock to even remain as a backup.

Unless Bill has lost his marbles, Hoyer didn't have to hold Mallett off. Mallett had to clearly pass him. If Brady goes down I'm not worried about Mallett then going down so much as going in...

Brady is due an extension next season. Once it's signed they won't be extending any other QB's, they'll be back to developing backups who show potential to start within this system. One of them may hit at the right time. If not, then they will have to consider other options including possibly changing the system and the kind of talent they scout for it.

I meant that Mallett is going to be here longer than Hoyer anyway (he had made comments that he wanted to previously be a starter somewhere else) so I don't seeing him being here next year and it makes sense if they decide to go in another direction considering their need for depth to consider his roster spot.

Doing the math I see Brady playing longer than Mallett may want him to, and agree that he may not be the eventual successor if Brady's career goes on another 4-6 years like he claims on sticking around for (not that I'm sold as Mallett as a starter yet anyway). But I think the coaching staff had higher expectations for Hoyer and you could tell by the end of last night that they may have been a little frustrated with him, especially on that last throw. I understand the protection issues and the other factors, but I just don't believe he was as good as he could have been.

 

[Patsrock]

There really is no tough decision here.

Hoyer has stated that he want to start somewhere and he will be gone next season as a free agent.

Mallett was drafted for the sole purpose of becoming the starter when Brady decides to call it quits, which IMO will be within 2 years, especially if they should win another super bowl this season

They will carry all three this season but I would fully expect to see them use Mallett, more so than Hoyer, if the situation came about.

Brady is going to get a new deal after this yr. Cap # is too high the next 2 years and can not restructure it, so it will have to me a new deal. Brady will get a 4 or 5 yr close to Brees deal and play till his 39.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I meant that Mallett is going to be here longer than Hoyer anyway (he had made comments that he wanted to previously be a starter somewhere else) so I don't seeing him being here next year and it makes sense if they decide to go in another direction considering their need for depth to consider his roster spot.

Doing the math I see Brady playing longer than Mallett may want him to, and agree that he may not be the eventual successor if Brady's career goes on another 4-6 years like he claims on sticking around for (not that I'm sold as Mallett as a starter yet anyway). But I think the coaching staff had higher expectations for Hoyer and you could tell by the end of last night that they may have been a little frustrated with him, especially on that last throw. I understand the protection issues and the other factors, but I just don't believe he was as good as he could have been.

Sorry to be harsh Ian, but if you think Josh was frustrated with Hoyer on that last throw you really don't know what you're looking at... Although I must say had it been Brady making the throw a lot of folks hereabouts would have been arguing that he again overthrew his deep receiver...

And FWIW as a rule of thumb they all want to start and if they don't as a coach you probably ask yourself why do I hang on to a guy who is willing to coast - they have no upside or drive. That was the mistake Polian made when he extended Sorgi...

 

[Bobs My Uncle]

I think Hoyer sticks in order to be a true backup that the Pats can rely on this year should Brady go down. I think Mallett is here to develop in order to get a ROI sometime in the future.

 

[patsfan13]

In the games I thought Mallett played better than Hoyer understand that neither guy played with a game plan or the stating skill players at the rec positions.

IMO the team will be better off this year and in the future if they let Hoyer go/trade him and give Mallett more reps in practice with the second team and scout squad reps.

 

[Ian]

Sorry to be harsh Ian, but if you think Josh was frustrated with Hoyer on that last throw you really don't know what you're looking at... Although I must say had it been Brady making the throw a lot of folks hereabouts would have been arguing that he again overthrew his deep receiver...

And FWIW as a rule of thumb they all want to start and if they don't as a coach you probably ask yourself why do I hang on to a guy who is willing to coast - they have no upside or drive. That was the mistake Polian made when he extended Sorgi...

All I can go by was the reaction on the sideline with McDaniels they showed after the interception - there were expletives dropped. It was a bad decision and he should have at least thrown it away. I know the receiver pulled up somewhat, but it's not like there was a lot of separation before that happened. I know you mentioned in another post that Mallett wasn't ask to make a big throw while Hoyer was, and that would have been a great moment (not that play, but that possession) to make himself stand out.

Don't get me wrong, I think you know I've been rooting for Hoyer to succeed. I think it comes down to who do they feel has been the better player, and the answer at this point really has been neither. So all things being equal, I just wonder with all their needs if they're going to commit 2 spots to both.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

All I can go by was the reaction on the sideline with McDaniels they showed after the interception - there were expletives dropped. It was a bad decision and he should have at least thrown it away. I know the receiver pulled up somewhat, but it's not like there was a lot of separation before that happened. I know you mentioned in another post that Mallett wasn't ask to make a big throw while Hoyer was, and that would have been a great moment to make himself stand out.

Don't get me wrong, I think you know I've been rooting for Hoyer to succeed. I think it comes down to who do they feel has been the better player, and the answer at this point really has been neither. So all things being equal, I just wonder with all their needs if they're going to commit 2 spots to both.

Josh was looking down the field, not across it. Holley clearly stopped on a go route. A real WR makes that catch or no one does. Brady would have taken the same shot with the same result. That was the kill shot to the goal line to avoid both a loss and OT. Mallett also had a beautiful deep pass to Holley on the sideline that was complete on review only Bill choked on his sock. Probably for the second time in the evening.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Mallett's decision making is lousy, and his accuracy is spotty. If he's the backup, that would mean that BB thinks Hoyer has regressed, and that would mean that this team is screwed if Brady goes down.

Caveat: Missed last night's game driving granddaughters back from the Cape. Not as down on Mallett as you seem here.

However, Mallett has had the opportunity to show he's the clear #2 and has not done so in camp nor in games 1-3. There is no tough decision to make. Hoyer = #2. Don't know enough about what happens in regular season reps to know if this is subject to future late season change.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I got Hoyer as the primary backup this year.

 

[Deus Irae]

Caveat: Missed last night's game driving granddaughters back from the Cape. Not as down on Mallett as you seem here.

However, Mallett has had the opportunity to show he's the clear #2 and has not done so in camp nor in games 1-3. There is no tough decision to make. Hoyer = #2. Don't know enough about what happens in regular season reps to know if this is subject to future late season change.

Just to clarify my position:

I think Mallett's improved since last year. I just think he's still a chucklehead (3 sideline passes that should have been picks while playing just parts of 4 exhibition games) and still isn't accurate enough for a Patriots-style offense in the NFL. His weaknesses are things that can get better over time, but often never really go away. BB may well see things differently. It certainly wouldn't be the first time.

 

[Patsrock]

Official Patriots Football Weekly Blog | From the Hart: Final Patriots roster projection

Andy Hart thinks Hoyer is gone.