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Tom Brady, NFLPA Granted 14-Day Extension To File Motion For Rehearing By Second Circuit Court


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I don't know where to begin.
Ginsberg is for emergency stays. Decisions to take a case are typically referred to the entire court.

Not just typically -- are always.

For SCOTUS to agree to hear a case it takes the vote of at least four (not a typo) justices.
 
My evidence is that Kessler wasn't ever allowed to speak. That's my evidence. Goodell's appeal hearing was as much a railroading as Goodell framing Brady for this.

What are you talking about?? Kessler absolutely did speak.
 
Not just typically -- are always.

For SCOTUS to agree to hear a case it takes the vote of at least four (not a typo) justices.
According to florio Ginsburg can issue a stay until the court decides to take the case or not which would probably push things beyond this season.
 
The only way Goodell would have to testify would be if CA2 had sent the case back to Berman with specific instructions in that regard, which are highly unlikely. The likelihood of its doing so en banc are very slim.

It's my understanding that en banc reviews are de novo. No (formal) deference is given to the panel's decision. So the en banc court would be completely free to say "We find for the NFL on the things Berman considered but remand back to Berman to consider the rest", for example.
 
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According to florio Ginsburg can issue a stay until the court decides to take the case or not which would probably push things beyond this season.

That is correct. I would assume Florio has better information than all of us here. He at least has some legal experience.

My sister-in-law is a lawyer and thought Brady would end up suing when this was all said and done.

56 less in the Wells Report and then getting their phones./computers in a court room with those corrupt people on the stand, answering for it all, would be goodnight Irene.
 
It was reported that he was attacked, interrupted and cut off repeatedly.

So, no, it wasn't a normal hearing.

Have you ever listened to or read transcripts of appellate oral arguments? Being "attacked, interrupted, and cut off repeatedly" is typical and expected.
 
I keep asking the question: why not MA federal court?

I haven't researched the "first to file rule" but it was my understanding that if each side filed in different venues on the same day, then a balancing test would apply. MA has much more connection to the suit then Minnesota. Brady lives there. The events giving rise to the action took place in MA. Minnesota has nothing but a friendly judge in Doty making its choice flagrant forum shopping. NY is simply where the NFL corporate offices are located. I think MA wins if the issue was pressed.

Am I wrong?

Exactly, the NFLPA shoot themselves in the foot a few times in this case, that was one occasion. The NFL is no saint, they filled so ASAP in NY trying to play in their home court that they even forgot some procedures, but at least the NFL office is in NY, Brady has a property there and the previous procedures took place in NY. Trying to fill this in MN that had nothing to do with this case was panicking IMO.
 
Massachusetts federal court was just as much of an unknown as NY. There would have be no gain by filing in Massachusetts. There may be a "home field advantage" for a jury trial, but not one with a federal judge.I really have no idea how a MA federal judge would have ruled regarding "first to file."

We lucked out with Berman.

I know it's "what if" history, but I can't help but feel we would have had a better shot with the judges who live in Boston vs. the ones who live in NY. I really can't see how any honest judge could find that Goodell did not "dispense his own brand of industrial justice " here.
 
Exactly, the NFLPA shoot themselves in the foot a few times in this case, that was one occasion. The NFL is no saint, they filled so ASAP in NY trying to play in their home court that they even forgot some procedures, but at least the NFL office is in NY, Brady has a property there and the previous procedures took place in NY. Trying to fill this in MN that had nothing to do with this case was panicking IMO.

If I remember correctly, Brady had already sold his NY apartment by that time. He lives and works in MA so I think it would be hard to argue that he is not domiciled there.
 
He doesn't want that either, though. Don't you realize if Goodell loses here at all, it's an open and shut Defamation case if Brady wants it?
No I don't realize that, because it isn't true. The federal courts (and potentially the Supreme Court) are not judging the facts of the matter, they are judging the authority of the arbitrator.
 
Couldn't disagree more, PF74 and Quantum Mechanic have been more accurate and educational than pretty much any other posters in this forum throughout this matter.*

* with apologies to a number of posters, especially the ones who did exceptional work on the physics.

And how long have you been practicing law?
 
No I don't realize that, because it isn't true. The federal courts (and potentially the Supreme Court) are not judging the facts of the matter, they are judging the authority of the arbitrator.

Correct, but the authority of the arbitrator is not supposed to be tied to an engineered set of lies in a fraudulent, "independent" report. A commissioner cannot concoct something that never happened just to rule on it. That's where you're wrong.

Goodell produced the report, which compromises the independence of it.

So, there is nothing legitimate to rule on, so there is not arbitrator needed.

56 lies in the Wells Report.

If Chin references it in the Goodell Appeal, it's wide open elsewhere. They just need to make sure judges aren't bought and paid for, to allow Kessler to counter, showcasing the 56 lies in the report itself.

The Goodell Appeal was over way too quickly, in creepy fashion.
 
Have you ever listened to or read transcripts of appellate oral arguments? Being "attacked, interrupted, and cut off repeatedly" is typical and expected.

Sure, but not like that or when Chin said "there is overwhelming evidence against Brady"...That's another tell Chin was paid off.

If the appeal was only about Goodell's powers, why did Chin say that? He never would have had to have said anything at all. Whoops! A little too aggressive on the sell job to the court to favor Goodell.

There is zero hard evidence based on Goodell's premise claiming Brady ordered the code red.

It went from "generally aware" to "he ordered it directly". Another tell. Lawyers that move the goal posts over and over, usually lose.

Anyone can throw diarrhea at the wall, and a good lawyer like Olson can shift the narrative back to easily set the trap here.

Goodell only wants everyone to believe it's about his powers, but he can't rule on lies.

I think you can stop now playing Goodell stooge, too. Berman and Katzmann can see right through Goodell, and they outrank Chin and Parker.
 
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We lucked out with Berman.

I know it's "what if" history, but I can't help but feel we would have had a better shot with the judges who live in Boston vs. the ones who live in NY. I really can't see how any honest judge could find that Goodell did not "dispense his own brand of industrial justice " here.

We lucked out? The NFL picked the court! They picked it.

They thought they could control it. Currently, they are correct after paying off Chin and Parker, so they do control it for now. The question is, how does Olson get control back, shift it back to the Wells Report, show thew 56 lies and explain that can't be the doctrine in which Goodell rules?

Doty would have been luck, I suppose, with the NFLPAs success there, but they weren't fast enough. He would have ALSO ruled in favor of Brady, and we'd still see Goodell pay off judges in Minny as opposed to NY.

So far, we have 3 judges calling Goodell a liar. One in Minny, 2 in NY and 1 more (Katzmann) all but wanting to call him one.

I don't think Ginsburg is stupid.
 
Yes, judges have never been paid off before.

Do you hope the tooth fairy shows up, too? lmao
We lucked out? The NFL picked the court! They picked it.

They thought they could control it. Currently, they are correct after paying off Chin and Parker, so they do control it for now. The question is, how does Olson get control back, shift it back to the Wells Report, show thew 56 lies and explain that can't be the doctrine in which Goodell rules?

Doty would have been luck, I suppose, with the NFLPAs success there, but they weren't fast enough. He would have ALSO ruled in favor of Brady, and we'd still see Goodell pay off judges in Minny as opposed to NY.

So far, we have 3 judges calling Goodell a liar. One in Minny, 2 in NY and 1 more (Katzmann) all but wanting to call him one.

I don't think Ginsburg is stupid.
No offense, but the more you discuss this subject, the more you demonstrate how phenomenally ignorant you are of what's going on.
 
Disagree.

The entire key to this whole thing, which for whatever reason has been glossed over, is for Olson to get the NFL back to answering for the Wells Report itself.

If he prevails in an en banc proceeding, there are a range of possibilities, one of which could include remanding the case to Judge Berman to address the issues related to whether Goodell had indeed dispensed "his own brand of industrial justice." The Supreme Court was very clear in the Steelworkers decision that that would require showing the Goodell had not acted in a manner consistent with the "essence" of the CBA. A pattern of lies and deceit would establish that. But, getting to that point is a big hurdle.

Goodell's entire premise for leaning on the "absolute power" line, which is true, is being propped up against a series of lies, 56 to be exact. That is the source of why he is ruling the way he is, but if what he is ruling on is a falsified document and not independent, it cannot stand.

If he was ruling on a document with inaccurate information, Garvey says that his ruling would still stand. If it can be shown that the document was the result of deceptive processes, then the Steelworkers precednet would be decisive and Goodell could be found to have dispensed "his own brand of industrial justice."

Katzmann also cited this along with Berman.

Berman, the Chief 2nd Circiut Judge ruled in favor of Brady. Ginsburg is Berman's boss, so to speak. So, do the math.

Ginsberg's only standing in relation to any SDNY or CA2 judge is that she can grant an emergency stay, if it is requested. Otherwise, she has to go to the entire court. She is nobody's boss (except for her Clerks) and would be amused to hear that someone thought she was.

Berman ruled in favor of Brady based on he idea the Wells Report made no sense.

Get it?

No, Berman said things that suggested he didn't think the Wells Report was truly independent, referring to it as the "Pash Wells Report" in his ruling, but he ruled in favor of Brady based on three narrow points: Notice, access to Pash and access to relevant documents.

The only reason the narrative shifted to "it doesn't matter what Berman says, I can lie and frame and do what I want, I have the power", is because Goodel thinks that trumps American law, when it doesn;t.

No, Goodell has argued that even if the evidence is wrong, he can still find as he did. The Garvey precedent clearly agrees with him on this. The question is whether he acted in a way that was inconsistent with the "essence" of the CBA through a pattern of lies and deceit.

....

I guess if you're Lester Munson or some other bozo at ESPN, you think this is about only Goebbels's absolute powers, when in reality, it's about how Goodell has been caught lying numerous times to federal judges.

There you are right. But, Olson has to convince a majority of the Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit thereof in an en banc proceeding if it is to be of any help to Brady.

Doty, Jones and now Berman (and Chin/Parker), the latter 2 will go silent after being paid off. So, Sheriff Goebbels has lied to at least 3 federal judges, which I am sure Ginsburg doesn't like.

Doty isn't as important now as is the Court of Appeals. If CA8 finds in favor of Peterson and if CA2 persists in finding in favor of the NFL, then there is a better, but still slim, chance that SCOTUS will hear Brady's case because there would be a split between two District Appeals Courts.

Again, if an en banc hearing is granted, Olson has to convince the Appeals Court that Goodell has been deceptive and as a result either have Berman's ruling upheld or remanded back to Berman.

Please stop with this nonsense about Payoffs. It detracts from the valid points you are making.

None of us know what Justice Ginsberg might or might not be thinking. She will be one of (hopefully) nine judges. There is little likelihood that SCOTUS will take the case unless there is a split between the two Courts of Appeal. And even then it is a slim chance because of the strength of the Garvey precedent. In other words, if the Second District Appeals court finds against Brady en banc, there is little chance that five Justices will agree to hear the case.


This isn't about dreaming. This is about Brady having the leverage and Goodell's stupidity and hubris.

Please see my comments in Bold above. I don't think you understand Justice Ginsberg's role in this. When it comes to a decision as to whether SCOTUS would hear an appeal, her's will be one of eight or nine votes.
 
We lucked out? The NFL picked the court! They picked it.

They thought they could control it. Currently, they are correct after paying off Chin and Parker, so they do control it for now. The question is, how does Olson get control back, shift it back to the Wells Report, show thew 56 lies and explain that can't be the doctrine in which Goodell rules?

Doty would have been luck, I suppose, with the NFLPAs success there, but they weren't fast enough. He would have ALSO ruled in favor of Brady, and we'd still see Goodell pay off judges in Minny as opposed to NY.

So far, we have 3 judges calling Goodell a liar. One in Minny, 2 in NY and 1 more (Katzmann) all but wanting to call him one.

I don't think Ginsburg is stupid.

The NFL picked NY. Berman was a random draw from the "wheel of judges" the SDNY uses. We lucked out by pulling him. That's all I meant.

FWIW, Ginsberg went with the flow in the MLB v. Garvey decision.
 
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